Russian Invasion of Ukraine - tactics and logistics

[Harry Bosch]

The fact that Russia has not taken Kiev by now says a lot.

If Russia flans Ukraine and declares victory it will be a 'Pyrrhic victory'. He wins the battle but in doing so looses in the long term.

The economy is amaged perhaps permantly. Given Putin's dictatorial actions few are going to risk investing in Russia.

Europe will find ways to get off of Russian energy.

No one will trust Russia to keep agreements. Putin tore up the agreement that Russia signed that guaranteed Ukraine integrity.

European unity has been strengthened in th face of the Russian threat. There had been agreement that NATO would not fortify the borders near Russia.

His suppression of free speech has put people in the streets protesting.

He wants Crimea and a lnd path for an imagined propaganda threat of invasion by NATO.

Yea, I just feel so bad for the countries that will have to deal with Russia. Feel so bad for Ukraine. How do you deal with a country that is so untrust worthy? Who would trust Putin? The best that the world can do probably is just try to bankrupt Russia, and keep sending in the defensive arms to Eastern Europe.

 

[steve_bank]

I think the best that can could be done is for NATO to take a calulated risk and declare war on Russia recue Ukraine.

In The news there is brutal leared loal to Putin who has a parmeliray group said to be headed for Ukraine. Essentially the Russian version of the Nazi SS. They will do the killing and terrorizing that the Russian conscripts might find hard to do. Known for torture and butchering.

 

[Rhea]

That is kind of terrifying.

 

[SLD]

I think the best that can could be done is for NATO to take a calulated risk and declare war on Russia recue Ukraine.

In The news there is brutal leared loal to Putin who has a parmeliray group said to be headed for Ukraine. Essentially the Russian version of the Nazi SS. They will do the killing and terrorizing that the Russian conscripts might find hard to do. Known for torture and butchering.

We already are in the war. We are just the logistical element for the warfighters who happen to be Ukrainians (with some Chechen elements). I suspect we’re giving them daily intelligence briefings, and probably helping them strategize their counter offensives.

 

[TV and credit cards]

I think the best that can could be done is for NATO to take a calulated risk and declare war on Russia recue Ukraine.

In The news there is brutal leared loal to Putin who has a parmeliray group said to be headed for Ukraine. Essentially the Russian version of the Nazi SS. They will do the killing and terrorizing that the Russian conscripts might find hard to do. Known for torture and butchering.

I wouldn’t go so far as to officially declare war. But I would as I’ve suggested days ago secure western Ukraine to ease the humanitarian burden on neighboring countries. Then, for crimes against humanity, enact a no-fly zone, freeing up Ukrainian forces to press the fight against Russia until they take back all of Ukraine.
If Russia wants to continue to terrorize Ukraine from within Russia, Ukrainian forces can enter Russia as they see fit. Though I suspect by this time Putin will be on the lam and Russian hostilities will cease.
Then proper reparations for the rebuilding of Ukraine can begin.

Putin is a bully. Bullies are usually cowards. Putin does not want to lose his power, his personal comfort, his life. When push comes to shove, those will be his priorities. He does nothing for Russia. He does for Putin.

 

[bilby]

I think the best that can could be done is for NATO to take a calulated risk and declare war on Russia recue Ukraine.

In The news there is brutal leared loal to Putin who has a parmeliray group said to be headed for Ukraine. Essentially the Russian version of the Nazi SS. They will do the killing and terrorizing that the Russian conscripts might find hard to do. Known for torture and butchering.

I wouldn’t go so far as to officially declare war. But I would as I’ve suggested days ago secure western Ukraine to ease the humanitarian burden on neighboring countries. Then, for crimes against humanity, enact a no-fly zone, freeing up Ukrainian forces to press the fight against Russia until they take back all of Ukraine.
If Russia wants to continue to terrorize Ukraine from within Russia, Ukrainian forces can enter Russia as they see fit. Though I suspect by this time Putin will be on the lam and Russian hostilities will cease.
Then proper reparations for the rebuilding of Ukraine can begin.

Putin is a bully. Bullies are usually cowards. Putin does not want to lose his power, his personal comfort, his life. When push comes to shove, those will be his priorities. He does nothing for Russia. He does for Putin.

Setting up a no-fly zone is either a pointless gesture that Putin will ignore, or it entails shooting down Russian military aircraft, which is an act of war (whether you declare it or not).

A no-fly zone isn't a step short of war; It's just a half-arsed kind of war. If you're going to war, you might as well send in ground forces too.

 

[TV and credit cards]

I think the best that can could be done is for NATO to take a calulated risk and declare war on Russia recue Ukraine.

In The news there is brutal leared loal to Putin who has a parmeliray group said to be headed for Ukraine. Essentially the Russian version of the Nazi SS. They will do the killing and terrorizing that the Russian conscripts might find hard to do. Known for torture and butchering.

I wouldn’t go so far as to officially declare war. But I would as I’ve suggested days ago secure western Ukraine to ease the humanitarian burden on neighboring countries. Then, for crimes against humanity, enact a no-fly zone, freeing up Ukrainian forces to press the fight against Russia until they take back all of Ukraine.
If Russia wants to continue to terrorize Ukraine from within Russia, Ukrainian forces can enter Russia as they see fit. Though I suspect by this time Putin will be on the lam and Russian hostilities will cease.
Then proper reparations for the rebuilding of Ukraine can begin.

Putin is a bully. Bullies are usually cowards. Putin does not want to lose his power, his personal comfort, his life. When push comes to shove, those will be his priorities. He does nothing for Russia. He does for Putin.

Setting up a no-fly zone is either a pointless gesture that Putin will ignore, or it entails shooting down Russian military aircraft, which is an act of war (whether you declare it or not).

A no-fly zone isn't a step short of war; It's just a half-arsed kind of war. If you're going to war, you might as well send in ground forces too.

I don’t disagree but by not making declarations it leaves a door open for Putin to walk through.
I understand there is a lot on the line here but what do you do with a bully? They do not stop when you look the other way at whatever offense they are committing. They find another to commit, as Putin has shown us over the years.
As Putin’s forces diminish, and it does look like he his taking heavy losses, what will he do? We worry about what he might do based on our actions. I think we should also worry about what he does based on our inaction.

 

[Hermit]

I think the best that can could be done is for NATO to take a calulated risk and declare war on Russia recue Ukraine.

What do you think would happen next? Do you expect Putin to pull his head in and say: "Sorry folks. I made a big mistake" and withdraw from Ukraine?

Anyway, the days of formal declarations are long gone. The standard operational procedure now is to supply military hardware, send in advisors for training purposes, and conduct joint military manoeuvres. By escalating the quality and quantity of these forms of assistance the result will be eventually indistinguishable from an all-out war. It's just another form of salami slicing, which looks less glorious than an outright declaration of war, but has the benefit of avoiding immediate nuclear retaliation.

 

[steve_bank]

The results of a lost Ukraine will be felt for a very long time.

China arbitrarily declared international waters in the South China Sea to be Chinese territory. They built an armed artificial island. So far it has not come to a shooting situation. A weak NATO and a successful Putin will embolden China and others.

It woud not take an invasion of Russia, just pushing them ot of Ukraine. It is no less than what the Nazis did.

 

[Hermit]

The results of a lost Ukraine will be felt for a very long time.

Lost to western powers. Of course it would. The principle underlying the Domino theory predates the communist threat and it will likely remain active until some giant meteor puts an end to it.

China arbitrarily declared international waters in the South China Sea to be Chinese territory.

The PRC's reasoning in support of owning the Spratly Islands in particular and the South China Sea in general is better founded than Russia's claim to Ukraine. I suggest you read up on it. The Timeline of the South China Sea dispute makes for a good start.

If you think China is in the minority of countries that have dormant or active territorial disputes you are in for a rude surprise. For example, given the opportunity, Mexico will take a third of the USA back, thank you very much. Europe is not exempt either. Cyprus is the tip of the territorial disputes between Turkey and Greece that began 3000 years ago when they were known as Persians on one side and Athenians/Spartans on the other. Poland might like to have the bits of its country back that the USSR nicked from it in 1945, and Germany could develop a desire for a return of the bits that became part of Lithuania, Poland, Russia and France at the same time.

And what about France? Wasn't Charles the Great/Karl der Grosse/Charlemagne essentially French? He owned half of today's Germany, all of Austria, Hungary and Switzerland, most of Italy, some of Spain and fragments of some other East European countries we don't care about.

Then there are the North and South American natives, the Inuits, the Maoris, the Lapps, the Aborigines, the Maasai, the Palestinians, the Karen...

 

[Jayjay]

The results of a lost Ukraine will be felt for a very long time.

China arbitrarily declared international waters in the South China Sea to be Chinese territory. They built an armed artificial island. So far it has not come to a shooting situation. A weak NATO and a successful Putin will embolden China and others.

It woud not take an invasion of Russia, just pushing them ot of Ukraine. It is no less than what the Nazis did.

Russia and rest of the world have a disagreement about what constitutes "Russia". If Ukraine attacks Crimea, it will be considered an invasion by Russia. Also, it'll be hard to counter Russia's missiles without shooting back into Russian territory, if Ukraine can ever even get that far.

So far, Ukraine has not shown that it can push back Russia in South and East, even though it has managed to slow down Russian advance to a crawl.

Only way to end this war with Ukrainian territory being restored is if there is either a coup or widespread protests and chaos in Russia that forces Putin to back down. Neither seems very likely.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I think the best that can could be done is for NATO to take a calulated risk and declare war on Russia recue Ukraine.

In The news there is brutal leared loal to Putin who has a parmeliray group said to be headed for Ukraine. Essentially the Russian version of the Nazi SS. They will do the killing and terrorizing that the Russian conscripts might find hard to do. Known for torture and butchering.

We already are in the war. We are just the logistical element for the warfighters who happen to be Ukrainians (with some Chechen elements). I suspect we’re giving them daily intelligence briefings, and probably helping them strategize their counter offensives.

I suspect it's a lot more than daily--we have AWACS and EW birds up and are probably giving them the data in at least close to realtime.

 

[bilby]

Then there are the North and South American natives, the Inuits, the Maoris, the Lapps, the Aborigines, the Maasai, the Palestinians, the Karen...

...though the latter would most likely seek to settle their claim not by war, but by going to the UN and demanding to speak to the manager.

 

[SLD]

I think the best that can could be done is for NATO to take a calulated risk and declare war on Russia recue Ukraine.

In The news there is brutal leared loal to Putin who has a parmeliray group said to be headed for Ukraine. Essentially the Russian version of the Nazi SS. They will do the killing and terrorizing that the Russian conscripts might find hard to do. Known for torture and butchering.

We already are in the war. We are just the logistical element for the warfighters who happen to be Ukrainians (with some Chechen elements). I suspect we’re giving them daily intelligence briefings, and probably helping them strategize their counter offensives.

I suspect it's a lot more than daily--we have AWACS and EW birds up and are probably giving them the data in at least close to realtime.

Ahh, roger our sat images show you were a little short on that last round, add fifty and come left 0.5 and fire for effect.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

I think the best that can could be done is for NATO to take a calulated risk and declare war on Russia recue Ukraine.

In The news there is brutal leared loal to Putin who has a parmeliray group said to be headed for Ukraine. Essentially the Russian version of the Nazi SS. They will do the killing and terrorizing that the Russian conscripts might find hard to do. Known for torture and butchering.

We already are in the war. We are just the logistical element for the warfighters who happen to be Ukrainians (with some Chechen elements). I suspect we’re giving them daily intelligence briefings, and probably helping them strategize their counter offensives.

I suspect it's a lot more than daily--we have AWACS and EW birds up and are probably giving them the data in at least close to realtime.

Ahh, roger our sat images show you were a little short on that last round, add fifty and come left 0.5 and fire for effect.

I get it!

 

[ZiprHead]

Exclusive: Sources Say Oligarch Funded Scheme to Paint Swastikas in Ukraine

A Ukrainian businessman offered payouts for an aimed at bolstering Putin's claim that Ukraine was a Nazis hotbed, sources tell Rolling Stone

www.rollingstone.com

The alleged plot, according to multiple sources, involved Pavel Fuks, a real estate, banking, and oil magnate who, the sources claim, was co-opted by Russian security forces to participate. Through intermediaries, Fuks allegedly offered between $500 and $1,500 for street level criminals to vandalize city streets with pro-Nazi graffiti in December, January, and February.

<snip>

Oleg Plyush, a former top Ukrainian kickboxer who says he’s a friend of Fuks and spoke to him about the swastika plot, tells Rolling Stone he learned about the scheme from an intermediary involved with finding people to carry out the vandalism. According to Plyush’s account, when confronted about the scheme, Fuks claimed that “he had no choice” and that it was his “assignment” — mandatory if he wanted to stay in business in the region.

 

[ZiprHead]

 

[Harry Bosch]

Yahoo!! This is what makes Fox News the greatest non-biased news source on the planet today: they present both sides. The left and the right. The left can depend on Tulsi to fairly and accurately present our views to the right!

(I did listen to the show. Interesting how Hannity described the great "Trump Doctrine". Bomb the shit out of a place and don't send in the ground troops. Yea, that strategy is working well for the Russians in Ukraine!)

 

[TV and credit cards]

Russia signals scaled-back war aims as Ukrainians advance near Kyiv

In an announcement that appeared to indicate that Moscow may be switching to more limited goals, the Russian Defence Ministry said the first phase of its operation was mostly complete,

So phase one was losing ten percent of your armed forces?

and it would now focus on "liberating" two eastern regions claimed by Russian-backed separatists.

I don't know about that. Ukraine may respectfully request their country back in its entirety. At least that's what you write on the missile.

 

[Elixir]

Interesting how Hannity described the great "Trump Doctrine". Bomb the shit out of a place and don't send in the ground troops.

I think that's the "War Criminal" doctrine. A perfect fit for Agent Orange.