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Russian Invasion of Ukraine - tactics and logistics

Senile in Chief said so.
The fact is, NATO is already at war with Russia.
I don't care what you think.
NATO/US conducted a nazi coup in Ukraine in 2014 in order to start a war with Russia. Mearsheimer explained that in 2015.
Mearsheimer said NATO and the US were Nazis???
 
Senile in Chief said so.
The fact is, NATO is already at war with Russia.
I don't care what you think.
NATO/US conducted a nazi coup in Ukraine in 2014 in order to start a war with Russia. Mearsheimer explained that in 2015.
Mearsheimer said NATO and the US were Nazis???
He said, NATO is no stranger to working with nazis. And yes he said ukrainian regime basically nazi dominated.
And yes he also mentioned the fact that literal geman nazis were admitted into NATO structures. It should not be a news for anybody. Same as the fact that US/UK had plans on starting a war with USSR using german soldiers.
And no, despite widely held belief here on this board ukrainian language does have much german influence :)

Your ignorance is remarkably persistent.
 
You spent 20 years in Afghanistan, and nobody was helping afghans.
If that's your standard of a "successful military operation", I've got some really fucking bad news for you and God Emperor Putin.
I have a bad news for you, the reason why Russia is winning is because they have support of the people in Ukraine.
That can't possibly be true because of the tense. Russia would have "won" if they have the support of the people of Ukraine. Russia wouldn't "winning".
 
...And no, despite widely held belief here on this board ukrainian language does have much german influence :)

Not really, but Russian has more Mongol influence than Ukrainian, since Muscovy remained under Mongol domination almost a century longer than Ukraine or Belarus. Barbos knows nothing at all about Ukrainian and talks as if he has never even visited that country.
 
Where did I admit that?

Here.

For millionth time. Neither Crimea nor Eastern Ukraine has any business being in Ukraine. No business at all. It's all Russia. There is nothing Ukrainian about them.
And?
If you know you admitted it, why the fuck did you ask me "Where did I admit that"? Jesus Christ your arguments are becoming more and more pathetic.

I have a bad news for you, the reason why Russia is winning is because they have support of the people in Ukraine. And the reason why nazis are losing is because they are nazis.
The crew of the Moskva and the Wagner Group agree with you.

I don't care what you think.
My, what a cogent argument. No wonder your side is "winning".
 
...And no, despite widely held belief here on this board ukrainian language does have much german influence :)

Not really, but Russian has more Mongol influence than Ukrainian, since Muscovy remained under Mongol domination almost a century longer than Ukraine or Belarus. Barbos knows nothing at all about Ukrainian and talks as if he has never even visited that country.
I am beginning to wonder whether he has even visited planet Earth.
 
By today, there was supposed to be a "great patriotic government" installed in Kyiv, the "Nazis" were supposed to be utterly defeated
Well, you keep sending supplies to nazis, obviously, it's gonna take more time.
Naw. Your side is done in Kyiv. Butts kicked. This was always about Russians stealing a land bridge to Crimea. I said it from day one. The Nazi excuse was just a ruse to fool the Russian people. And it worked. All that the Russians are doing are stealing land, stealing water, stealing Ukrainian supplies and tractors, killing people, destroying their property, stealing their children. That's right, your sicko side is stealing children and sending them to Russia. I feel terrible for the crimes that Russia has committed in Ukraine. The only good news is that your military is so degraded, that you won't be able to invade any other countries. Secondly, Putler has united the border countries against Russia. Finland and Sweden will strengthen Nato. Your side will eventually return to what you do best: operating a gas station. And the gas station will soon be out of business.
Man, I've got Comrade Barbos on ignore, but took a peek at the propaganda for a laugh. I sure hope he isn't being paid in Rubles, but he should at least be getting paid something to stick so close to the official Russian talking points. It's all there...'Nazis,' there isn't really a Ukraine, glorious Russian military is being greeted by grateful citizens, etc.

I mean, if the citizens of the non-existent Ukraine are being so welcoming to the Russian troops, then how did so many thousands of those patriotic young men die? Did they trip over all the flowers being thrown at their feet?
 
Also there was ukrainian fake about wheat being shipped from Eastern Ukraine to Russia to cause famine. Turned out it was ukrainian fake. But then Ukrainian Führer announced great victory for Ukraine when EU lifted all tariffs and limits on .... agricultural products from Ukraine :facepalm2:
Proven fake how??

We have plenty of data on Russian looting, why should we think this particular example is fake? (Although I do not think the intent was to cause famine, it was simply looting.)
 
Never ever trust any nation directly involved in a war.
Well, the West is directly involved in this war, they started it, send their mercenaries and weapons.
And there are differences, russian and soviets before that government rarely lie, they prefer suppressing information. Whereas the West prefers flat out, Goebbels style lies. Ukrainians are trying to outdo the West in their lying.
While the Russians do a lot of information-suppression that doesn't mean there aren't a gazillion lies also.
 
Also there was ukrainian fake about wheat being shipped from Eastern Ukraine to Russia to cause famine. Turned out it was ukrainian fake. But then Ukrainian Führer announced great victory for Ukraine when EU lifted all tariffs and limits on .... agricultural products from Ukraine :facepalm2:
Proven fake how??
Are you kidding? Putin said it was fake. That's the highest standard of proof there is.

Allegedly.
 
Isn’t Siberia a really big place?
One more time, no Finns were deported to Siberia.
Also, there are regular people living here, so stop implying that it's a hell on earth and people are miserable here.
Summer is pretty great here, better than most of US, it's just too short.
I'm sure it's a lovely place. But I used "Siberia" as an euphemism for gulags and work camps. Those who stayed, were suspected by the soviets to be collaborators and some were sent to the camps. Others moved voluntarily to other places in Russia because their homes had been destroyed. But their numbers were small to begin with, and Stalin was an equal opportunity oppressor.
 
I laughed for five minutes regarding the above! But the Russians can manufacture any excuse to invade any country that they deem that they can bully. And Putin has no credibility to negotiate with. The only thing that Putin understands is force. The west has to continue sending the arms to countries willing to stand up against Russia. Russia won't invade Finland once it joins Nato.
Finland and Sweden are distractions, just like barbos. The Russian Hitler knows his chances of territorial expansion there are zero. All the talk about fortifying the border with nukes is a feint. The Pig wants Ukraine's east. That's all he wants right now and is satisfied that we're spending so much effort paying attention to his distracting us.

The best thing Ukraine can do besides holding onto their territory is expand the fight into Russia along their eastern border with the Pig. Keep hitting strategic points in their supply lines and depots. That will get the Russian Nazi Pig's attention more than anything.

I think you are overthinking it. I don't think Putin wants to expand Russian territory. He wants to control as much of the former USSR as possible. That's not the same thing as making Russia itself bigger. He wants to control politics in these states. Place puppet leaders in positions of power, and just suck them dry of wealth. Oligarchs has the true power in Ukraine, just as much as in Russia. I think this invasion is a demonstration of power. As long as the other ex Soviet states, in Putin's control, are scared into obedience, Putin has succeeded. I think that is his goal. I think he seized Crimea because Yanukovich was toppled. But instead of the Ukraine being cowed and came back into the fold, they were continually trying to ally themselves with the west, more than with Russia. I think that's what the current war is about. And Putin must win. If he loses this war all the ex-Soviet states will, as quickly as possible, seek allies far away from Russia. Then Putin's empire is doomed.

This is exactly how USSR operated and kept their vassals obedient. Putin is just continuing a tried and tested method.

I think Putin's main goal with his war was to replace Zelenskyy with his own man. Not to expand Russian territory.
I think that's a distinction without a difference. If Russia can control some neighboring land, has permanent soldiers there, and everyone there speaks Russian, then that territory is de facto Russian, even if not de jure. These little statelets like South Ossetia, Transnistria, "people's republics" of Donetsk and Luhansk, are all practically so dependent on Russia and have absolutely no agency, that they could be annexed anytime on a whim.
 
What is the assertion that they belong to Russia based on?
Because that was a part of Russia which was attached to newly created Ukrainian republic by communists.
Much like Karelia or Konigsberg were attached to Soviet Union by communists. Why not start there?

Russia is a dictatorship and a kleptocracy. Why would anybody prefer to be ruled by Russia if they have any other option?
I don't know, maybe because Ukrainian regime is way worse?
At least it's a democracy, or trying to be. And hardly worse: Russia ranks 136th versus Ukraine's 122th on Corruption Perceptions Index, and 124th cersus Ukraine's 86th place on the Democracy Index.
 
Well, Russia has finally switched tactics so that they are NOT overstretching their supply-lines, and my opinion is that if the Russian government had done this, to begin with, they would have already dominated the eastern half of the country, by now, and they also would have probably gotten control over their entire Black Sea coast. Kyiv most likely would not have stood until the end of the year.

However, it is too little, too late. The economic effects of global sanctions have had time to start taking their toll, and in the long-run, they are going to run out of their more expensive weapons. They are not really going to be able to continue minting new tanks fast enough to keep up with the rate at which Ukraine has been destroying them, whereas Ukraine still has enough international sympathy that they have new equipment rolling in by the day. Ukraine still has access to the Black Sea through Odessa.

Furthermore, the frustration of Russian troops over their early failures led to early humanitarian disasters that have entrenched an intense partisan resistance, especially in the southeastern parts of Ukraine. The partisan resistance probably would not have been as fierce without the early failures of the Russian invasion, but the consequences of leaving your troops underfed, undersupplied, and terrified of an intensely hostile population is that they become angry, they become hungry, and they become desperate, which leads to the slaughter of civilians. You cannot really undo that, and the family, neighbors, and countrymen of those people are ghosts that come back to haunt you. Russia has thereby created a problem that they otherwise might not have had to such an extreme degree. Where a partisan resistance would have had little effect in a situation like they had in Crimea, which they quickly dominated with little loss of life, thereby making such a resistance unpopular and all but impossible to build support for, they have ruined the possibility of any such scenario by an excess of ambition.

Furthermore, they seriously screwed up with Mariupol. Their "kill so many of them that the rest of them are paralyzed with fear" strategy has only hardened the international community against Russia and thereby led to a tightening of sanctions. The fact that their jumping jacks in the region are bragging as if Mariupol were a glowing success that they were turning to a quick profit, Mariupol was really a failure. By flatting the city, they have not just denied that city to Ukraine, but they have denied it to themselves. Those resources that they destroyed are resources that they could have used. The civilians that they have rendered starving and angry are civilians that they could have otherwise courted at least for complacency if not for active support. I suppose the idea behind their strategy in Mariupol was to break the spirit of the region, but just to the west of the city is a center of partisan warfare, already discussed, that will ultimately make the lives of Russian occupiers as much of a living Hell as Vietnam was for the Americans. You just don't murder thousands of people and expect their survivors to do anything else in the world besides make your life so miserable as to be not even worth living.

Ultimately, Russia made the same mistake, by stretching their supply-lines too far, that Napoleon made during his invasion of Russia. While Napoleon was indeed able to win a few relatively petty victories, that disastrous campaign really was a turning point in the war that ultimately led to the defeat of Napoleon. Ultimately, it was the same tale. Napoleon marched into Russia with pride, confidence, and swagger, and he had the happy expectation that the "liberated" (read: conquered) peasants would throw flowers at his feet as he triumphantly marched into a suddenly pro-France Moscow and planted the Tricolor to the tune of a happy fanfare. The heart of his mistake was ultimately that you cannot realistically expect your soldiers to behave well if you leave them starving, and that is final. The first instance of rape, plunder, or mass murder is the beginning of your defeat.

While Napoleon might have had a few relatively minor victories later, his fate was really sealed from the moment that he assumed that hubris would not have consequences. Even if he had not made any further mistakes, it would have happened eventually because the world had turned against him where the world had previously been divided or, at times, sympathetic. His empire was doomed.

Only a fool would bet on Putin, at this point.
Nice post, but I'm not as optimistic as you.

The Russian tactic has been to dismantle possible sources of resistance from the get go. They go door to door, eliminate everyone who's been in the army or the police (or at least interrogate them), anyone with registered firearms, anyone with money or political connections. People are sent to "filtration camps" until they have control over the territory. And of course, most people have fled when they were able. Only ones remaining are either those who can't move, are collaborators, or at least susceptible to Russian propaganda, which is the only information they are getting. I doubt there is anyone left to resist in the occupied territories and I wouldn't count on that being a huge factor (although in Kherson, apparently people are protesting the attempts to arrange a referendum to become a "Kherson People's Republic".

Second, the Soviet army plundered, raped and murdered its way to Berlin in WW2. They were the winners. So it's not a hard rule that one can't commit most grievous atrocities, and still come out on top.
 
Finland will decide to apply for Nato membership on 12 May, according to a local media report.

Citing anonymous government sources, the Finnish newspaper Iltalehti reports the decision to join will come in two steps on that day, with the nation’s president Sauli Niinisto first announcing his approval for the Nordic neighbour of Russia to join the western defence alliance, followed by parliamentary groups giving their approval for the application.

Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has pushed Finland and Sweden to the verge of applying for Nato membership and abandoning a belief held for decades that peace was best kept by not publicly choosing sides.

Reuters reports it has not immediately been able to verify the details provided by Iltalehti.

Under the Finnish constitution, the president leads Finland’s foreign and security policy in cooperation with the government.

The decision will be confirmed in a meeting between the president and the government’s key ministers after the president and parliament’s initial announcements, Iltalehti reports.

Russia, with which Finland shares an 810-mile (1,300-km) border and a pre-1945 history of conflict, has warned it will deploy nuclear weapons and hypersonic missiles in its Baltic coast enclave of Kaliningrad if Finland and Sweden decide to join the alliance.
Yeah, I know the link description is bad but it works.
 
Mass flight of tech workers turns Russian IT into another casualty of war About 10 percent of the tech workforce is projected to leave Russia before the end of May
The Russian Association for Electronic Communications told the lower house of Russia’s parliament last month that 50,000 to 70,000 tech workers have fled the country, with 100,000 more expected to leave over the next month — for a total of about 10 percent of the sector’s workforce. Ok Russians, a new nonprofit group helping emigres, used a sampling of data from neighboring nations and social media surveys to estimate that nearly 300,000 Russians overall had left since the war began.
 
The writing is on the wall. Plenty of rich Russians don't live in Russia and after this debacle, it makes finacial sense that even fewer will.
And this is a bad thing? how?
You realize that they would have to keep their money IN Russia now?
You really have not thought that through, have you?
Not counting the fact their money isn't in one singular place, what I'm really saying is if the lousy rich folks don't find Mother Russia attractive neither will the truly intellectuals.
 
The writing is on the wall. Plenty of rich Russians don't live in Russia and after this debacle, it makes finacial sense that even fewer will.
And this is a bad thing? how?
You realize that they would have to keep their money IN Russia now?
You really have not thought that through, have you?
Brain drain. Your country is losing tech people that are in huge demand. Your country is losing its technicians, scientists, and people with a conscience.
 
Mass flight of tech workers turns Russian IT into another casualty of war About 10 percent of the tech workforce is projected to leave Russia before the end of May
The Russian Association for Electronic Communications told the lower house of Russia’s parliament last month that 50,000 to 70,000 tech workers have fled the country, with 100,000 more expected to leave over the next month — for a total of about 10 percent of the sector’s workforce. Ok Russians, a new nonprofit group helping emigres, used a sampling of data from neighboring nations and social media surveys to estimate that nearly 300,000 Russians overall had left since the war began.
If Putin declares martial law, then they probably won't be able to leave.

But on the other hand, spreading false information about pending mobilization on Victory Day could also be a psy-ops to make Russian IT guys leave the country sooner rather than later. So who knows.
 
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