Sen. Feinstein Claims She Received Info On Kavanaugh And Sent It To FBI

[Jimmy Higgins]

He is not saying that. He is saying that it never happened.

Actually he is saying she has the wrong guy... a cleaner defense that saying she is lying.

The question is why was a Kavanaugh supporter on CNN suggesting it could have happened?

Could you provide a quote in which he says she has the wrong guy?

My bad. Sen. Orrin Hatch floated the idea out. Hard to imagine that Team Kavanaugh was behind such a suggestion to be made though.

As for the Kavanaugh supporter, I don't think her motivations are relevant, but if you take a look at the video, she was trying to defend him without knowing what happened, and she is not so good at it.

Ah... cable news desperate for "breaking news" and someone desperate to be on tv.

 

[Copernicus]

I still think that this allegation of a rape attempt over 35 years ago is a very weak reed for Democrats to rely on, and it could ultimately help Kavanaugh get confirmed (probably after the election, if it is to happen). Dr. Ford's charge could be sincere but based on a false memory of the actual circumstances. It is plausible that Kavanaugh, who was allegedly "stumbling drunk" at the time, would not remember the incident. However, now that the charge is out there, the FBI really should reopen the background investigation and interview at least Mark Judge, the friend who was supposedly a witness but now claims he can't remember it and doesn't want to talk about it. He should definitely be made to tell that to the FBI. Since the charge cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, this sex scandal will have little effect other than to smother all of the other troubling aspects surrounding Kavanaugh's appointment.

This is not about whether a crime was committed, because the statute of limitations has passed and there appears to be no corroboration. However, the Senate hearing is very much about Kavanaugh's character and how he handles situations like this. There are just too many questions surrounding his honesty while testifying under oath, his finances, and his real views on serious legal issues. He has been anything but forthcoming, and Republicans are clearly in a hurry to jam this down the throats of the public before the midterm election. In fact, they can still vote on the nomination after the elections. There is no reason to rush this now other than to satisfy Republican partisanism. If Kavanaugh fails, Trump will be able to find someone equally bad who does not have all of the baggage. This was just a very bad choice made without proper vetting.

To the best of my knowledge, there is no statute of limitation for sexual assaults in Maryland. Which is why the alleged accomplice doesn't want to talk.

I agree that the accusation is soft in the sense of it is almost impossible to prove and it does seem to take pull out of the money angle and the perjury angle. But let's be honest neither of those things were going to stop the GOP from confirming Kavanaugh either. And if it isn't Kavanaugh, it'll be another justice like Kavanaugh, if the GOP can push it through fast enough before the January switch.

It is an interesting question whether there is a statute of limitation for the offense described by Dr. Ford. After all, this was not an actual case of rape, but an allegation of attempted rape. For all we know, the drunken Kavanaugh only put his hand over her mouth to stop her screaming from alerting others, not necessarily because he actually intended to rape her against her will. (This is all speculation, of course. We can't know what was in everyone's mind at the time, especially given the alleged alcoholic stupor.) So, from what I can gather in my superficial internet search, Maryland has no statute of limitations for criminal felony sexual offenses. A prosecutor might have chosen to go with a misdemeanor charge here, but I don't know. No expertise in the law, just my Internet Juris Doctor degree from Google University's legal department.

See: What Are the Maryland Statutes of Limitations for Sexual Abuse?

 

[ZiprHead]

Kavanaugh's yearbook raises eyebrows



Accuser's schoolmate says she recalls hearing of alleged Kavanaugh incident

 

[RavenSky]

The ball is in Kavanaugh’s court to specifically deny this specific person’s claims.

He did. So did his friend Mark Judge. So it's "he said, he said, she said" at this point.

Correction - the friend said he was regularly black-out drunk in those days so he could neither confirm nor deny. Mark Judge has also said he refuses to testify to anything about any of this under oath. Furthermore, Mark Judge wrote a tell-all book talking about how he was "swimming in alcohol" during high school.

 

[RavenSky]

The credibility part comes from the fact she raised this to a psychologist 6 years ago.

Without naming him...

False again. The actual fact is that Kavanaugh was not named in the psychologist's notes, which is not at all the same thing as your claim that Dr. Ford didn't name him at the time.

I am certain that you will dismiss it, but Ford's husband, who was in the sessions with her, said she did name Kavanaugh at the time.

 

[RavenSky]

The truth is the GOP reaction with that letter response with 65 must have been hard to find women signing onto it gave this anonymous claim Usain Bolt legs. In fact, that is still what gives me the biggest impression the claim is true.

Same here.

That and the fact that Kavanaugh's buddy (who was named as being present at the assault) refuses to testify under oath

- - - Updated - - -

Well, they need to get him, her and the witness in front of the Senate answering questions under oath - open Senate that is, not some closed door hearing. Regardless of what one thinks about how this information came out or how credible it sounds at the moment, they can't ram his vote through with these questions unresolved.

Watch them

 

[RavenSky]

[/I]This should be known as the "Well, he didn't try to rape me so he couldn't have tried to rape anyone else because I know I would have been his first choice" fallacy.

It shouldn't have, but this made me laugh out loud.

Hey Derec, look! We found 65 of those women who love "bad boys"!!!

 

[repoman]

https://www.apnews.com/f198dfdd9fbe4a2aa2ae56019e56983a

The Latest: McCaskill says she'll vote no on Kavanaugh

 

[RavenSky]

You wrote incorrectly that the GOP had the letter in hand "early on."

The FBI had the letter early on, which means it was "in the file" (exactly where the FBI said they put it), which means the GOP also had it.

 

[RavenSky]

Honest question, if you could take all of men of Kavanaugh's age in high school when he is alleged to have done this act while "stumbling drunk", what percentage of them would be ethical and fairly caring adults at his current age?

How would that compare to general population of men?

I don't think he is very ethical, but I thought that before this allegation.

In all honesty, if he was as regularly drunk as his friend (and Dr. Ford) says he was, combined with being a self-entitled rich boy in a prep school, I have no doubt that he could sexually assault a classmate during high school and then never do anything like that again as a sober adult.

I've said this before in the never-ending rape threads, but I do think there are different motivations for rape. The sexual predator doesn't change. Harvey Weinstein continued his behavior until he was finally outed and booted. Most rapists are serial rapists and they will not stop even after serving prison sentences for it.

But I believe that there are also the type of rapist exemplified by the Steubenville High School football players. They were not taught to respect women, not taught that "no means no", not taught to get ongoing affirmative consent and under the misguided assumption that they are the gods of their own little world. Add a heavy dose of alcohol and they do exactly what Kavanaugh is accused of doing. I think this type still tend to grow up to be insufferable assholes unless there is intervention, but probably not serial rapists.

I have no studies to support this - it is just my opinion.

 

[RavenSky]

And why is nobody talking about his perjury and financial vulnerability? This guy screams "national security risk" and "unfit for the bench". I don't care about the scandal, I don't want a person willing to commit perjury or vulnerable to blackmail and bribery on the highest court in the land.

^^^ agree! I'd especially like to know how his huge debt got paid off so fast

 

[ZiprHead]

Honest question, if you could take all of men of Kavanaugh's age in high school when he is alleged to have done this act while "stumbling drunk", what percentage of them would be ethical and fairly caring adults at his current age?

How would that compare to general population of men?

I don't think he is very ethical, but I thought that before this allegation.

In all honesty, if he was as regularly drunk as his friend (and Dr. Ford) says he was, combined with being a self-entitled rich boy in a prep school, I have no doubt that he could sexually assault a classmate during high school and then never do anything like that again as a sober adult.

See my post referencing Kavanaugh's yearbook. It pretty clearly shows he spent a significant amount of time and effort to get drunk.

 

[repoman]

Honest question, if you could take all of men of Kavanaugh's age in high school when he is alleged to have done this act while "stumbling drunk", what percentage of them would be ethical and fairly caring adults at his current age?

How would that compare to general population of men?

I don't think he is very ethical, but I thought that before this allegation.

In all honesty, if he was as regularly drunk as his friend (and Dr. Ford) says he was, combined with being a self-entitled rich boy in a prep school, I have no doubt that he could sexually assault a classmate during high school and then never do anything like that again as a sober adult.

I've said this before in the never-ending rape threads, but I do think there are different motivations for rape. The sexual predator doesn't change. Harvey Weinstein continued his behavior until he was finally outed and booted. Most rapists are serial rapists and they will not stop even after serving prison sentences for it.

But I believe that there are also the type of rapist exemplified by the Steubenville High School football players. They were not taught to respect women, not taught that "no means no", not taught to get ongoing affirmative consent and under the misguided assumption that they are the gods of their own little world. Add a heavy dose of alcohol and they do exactly what Kavanaugh is accused of doing. I think this type still tend to grow up to be insufferable assholes unless there is intervention, but probably not serial rapists.

I have no studies to support this - it is just my opinion.

Sounds about right, and also being an insufferable asshole will give someone like Kavanaugh the confidence to be put on SCOTUS even though if he were honest with himself would decline for not being qualified and/or compromised.

-------------------------------------------

To satiate the people who talk about this being unfair to men - women being able to pull out very old allegations like this, I have a question.

What kind of actions in High School do 17 year old girls engage in that would come up at 53 years of age as a character disqualification? Acting like the bully girls in "Carrie"?

 

[poster]

Kavanaugh's good friend at the time was a guy who openly admits to being out of control with alcohol consumption. Of course Kavanaugh drank, and probably pretty regularly at least for a while, or he would not have hung around with Judge.

The fact that neither one of them is willing to step up is a sign that they lack the type of character befitting a judge on a talent show, no less one for the Supreme Court.

 

[RavenSky]

Ford is calling the doubters' bluff. If the GOP are so sure there's nothing to her story, they should welcome an FBI investigation. If they go on without one, it means they're scared. That Ford wants one only further adds to her credibility. She is right that there should be an investigation first. A senate hearing is a horseshit way to judge what happened in a case like this, especially when they only want to call two people to testify. And why are they afraid to hear Mark Judge? Even more telling against Kavanaugh, is that Mark Judge doesn't want to testify.

What's the rush? They kept Garland's seat open over a year. Yet, they've been ramrodding this thing through and typically breaking norms all along the way.

^^^ All of that

 

[RavenSky]

No, it's Ford calling the doubters' bluff. If the GOP are so sure there's nothing to her story, they should welcome a FBI investigation. If they go on without one, it means they're scared. That Ford wants one only further adds to her credibility. She is right that there should be an investigation first. A senate hearing is a horseshit way to judge what happened in a case like this, especially when they only want to call two people to testify. And why are they afraid to hear Mark Judge? Even more telling against Kavanaugh, is that Mark Judge doesn't want to testify.

The FBI doesn't do that. When has it ever done that? There is no federal crime alleged. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch. The FBI is not a willy-nilly police force. It has no power to investigate, issues subpoenas, etc., for an alleged state crime. Amazing this hyper partisanship has made people forget how the government works.

The FBI is 100% responsible for doing the background investigation on the USSC nominees. No one is discussing an FBI criminal investigation They need to interview Kavanaugh, Ford, Judge and anyone else with pertinent information on her allegation - just like they did with Anita Hill.

 

[RavenSky]

So republicans want to trample accuser because she wants due process? RU Thomasing again?

No, they want to trample the accuser because her accusations harm their candidate. If it were a Dem candidate in the same situation, everyone involved would be an equally passionate defender of the completely opposite position they now have. Who she is or what she wants aren't relevant factors in their opinions.

Really?

I guess that's why Al Franken is still a sitting Senator.

Oh, wait...

 

[Underseer]

And just to make sure the circus is as circus-like as possible, child molester Roy Moore is speaking in Kavanaugh's defense.

https://www.rawstory.com/2018/09/watch-roy-moore-urges-gop-vote-conscience-support-brett-kavanaugh/

Accused child molester Roy Moore vouches for Brett Kavanaugh in worst endorsement yet

In an interview with the pro-Trump One American News network, failed GOP Senate candidate Roy Moore urged his fellow Republicans to vote with their “conscience” and support Brett Kavanaugh‘s Supreme Court nomination.

“I think they need to take a stand,” Moore said. “I think they need to do what their conscience dictates. They know what’s happening.”

And now we have another hair-splitting session wherein we carefully parse the definition of "child molester" like a bunch of ambulance-chasers.

 

[Toni]

Honest question, if you could take all of men of Kavanaugh's age in high school when he is alleged to have done this act while "stumbling drunk", what percentage of them would be ethical and fairly caring adults at his current age?

How would that compare to general population of men?

I don't think he is very ethical, but I thought that before this allegation.

In all honesty, if he was as regularly drunk as his friend (and Dr. Ford) says he was, combined with being a self-entitled rich boy in a prep school, I have no doubt that he could sexually assault a classmate during high school and then never do anything like that again as a sober adult.

I've said this before in the never-ending rape threads, but I do think there are different motivations for rape. The sexual predator doesn't change. Harvey Weinstein continued his behavior until he was finally outed and booted. Most rapists are serial rapists and they will not stop even after serving prison sentences for it.

But I believe that there are also the type of rapist exemplified by the Steubenville High School football players. They were not taught to respect women, not taught that "no means no", not taught to get ongoing affirmative consent and under the misguided assumption that they are the gods of their own little world. Add a heavy dose of alcohol and they do exactly what Kavanaugh is accused of doing. I think this type still tend to grow up to be insufferable assholes unless there is intervention, but probably not serial rapists.

I have no studies to support this - it is just my opinion.

I’m not sure why you believe that being a self entitled jerk in high school (or college) and getting drunk and sexually assaulting a classmate would never happen later but is something he’d mature out of. I think quite the opposite. In fact there is nothing in his background that suggests he has not continued to live a life of entitlement and privilege. There is nothing to suggest that he had any sort of epiphany that he had behaved badly in the past or had treated anyone in an inappropriate manner.

One does not have to be wealthy or privileged or drunk in order to feel entitled to do whatever one wants to whomever one thinks is vulnerable and available. Attitudes like that don’t magically appear because one is drunk and wealth and privilege make it easier to get a pass on bad behavior—or criminal behavior, for that matter. It helps but it is hardly necessary to escape consequences. Come on: cwe’ve all read stories of high school boys taking part in far worse and not even being charged.

It’s too hard for people to look at ‘great guys’ who do bad things because we like and admire and even identify with the cool kids.

And a lot of us have done questionable things in the past that we would never do now. It’s easier to make up stories to explain claims of rape as false or simply morning after regrets than accept that even a high school hero has feet of clay.

In my experience, guys who grab girls and choke them in high school go on to do much worse. Unless there is some event that changes their trajectory: some consequences, maybe some epiphany that spurs self examination and empathy for others.

I’d much prefer to believe that this was a stupid one off, but I don’t.

 

[RavenSky]

I’m not sure why you believe that being a self entitled jerk in high school (or college) and getting drunk and sexually assaulting a classmate would never happen later but is something he’d mature out of. I think quite the opposite. In fact there is nothing in his background that suggests he has not continued to live a life of entitlement and privilege. There is nothing to suggest that he had any sort of epiphany that he had behaved badly in the past or had treated anyone in an inappropriate manner.

I DO think he continued to live his life of entitlement and privilege. I DON'T think he believes he behaved badly in the past nor treated anyone in an inappropriate manner.

But I do think that, if he stopped drinking (which it appears he has), he could grow up to be a self-entitled asshole rather than a rapey self-entitled asshole.

If more women come forward, I will stand corrected.

One does not have to be wealthy or privileged or drunk in order to feel entitled to do whatever one wants to whomever one thinks is vulnerable and available. Attitudes like that don’t magically appear because one is drunk and wealth and privilege make it easier to get a pass on bad behavior—or criminal behavior, for that matter. It helps but it is hardly necessary to escape consequences. Come on: cwe’ve all read stories of high school boys taking part in far worse and not even being charged.

All of which has nothing to do with the (purely personal opinion) distinction I made

It’s too hard for people to look at ‘great guys’ who do bad things because we like and admire and even identify with the cool kids.

I think it should be rather clear that I do NOT admire Kavanaugh or anyone remotely like him, and that my opinion does NOT stem from any sort of admiration for those types of people. Very much the opposite.

I just believe that there are serial predators who will never change, and that there are self-entitled fuckwits who might.

And a lot of us have done questionable things in the past that we would never do now. It’s easier to make up stories to explain claims of rape as false or simply morning after regrets than accept that even a high school hero has feet of clay.

Nothing whatsoever to do with anything I've said.

In my experience, guys who grab girls and choke them in high school go on to do much worse. Unless there is some event that changes their trajectory: some consequences, maybe some epiphany that spurs self examination and empathy for others.

Isn't the bolded essentially what I said?

They were not taught to respect women, not taught that "no means no", not taught to get ongoing affirmative consent and under the misguided assumption that they are the gods of their own little world. Add a heavy dose of alcohol and they do exactly what Kavanaugh is accused of doing. I think this type still tend to grow up to be insufferable assholes unless there is intervention, but probably not serial rapists.

I’d much prefer to believe that this was a stupid one off, but I don’t.

As to Kavanaugh specifically, time will tell and I would not be shocked either way. My reply to Repo was in more general terms.