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The End of the Donald Trump candidacy.

The problem with explaining the obvious it that one man's obvious is another man's mine field. The field is obvious, but the mines are not. The standard political metaphor for a dangerous topic is "third rail". The third rail of subway track is pretty obvious and most people know to stay away from them, or risk electrocution.

A political mine field is a very different metaphor. A political mine field is a subject which injures one's cause, but not in an immediate or obvious way. The audience maybe nodding their heads, but there's one or two people who were just lost forever.
The two biggest political mine fields of the past 30 years have been gay rights and abortion rights.

Many years ago, during the short lived crisis in the Episcopal Church, about the ordination of an openly gay Bishop, I sat in a meeting with a group of church people who were trying to decide how it affected them. This was a socially liberal group of people, but they weren't sure what it all meant. Some very nasty quotes had been reported in the news and these people were trying very hard to be polite, but I could tell a few of them found the entire idea disgusting. One woman, who had been quiet the entire evening, tried to fight tears and said, "But what do I tell my gay son?"

I had just seen a landmine explode. Here was a woman, who for all outward appearances was a solid Republican voter, but any candidate who took a position to disparage, diminish, or deny any right to her son, would never get her vote. In any group of 100 people, gathered for any reason, there is going to be at least one gay person and many more with a close relative who is gay. They don't wear a special hat, so there's no way to tell. Whether anyone knows, or not, their vote will hang on this issue. This is especially true for people who do not voice their opinions. They may answer a pollster in the expected way, but in the voting booth, the issue cuts to the heart of their family and the gay-hostile candidate will not get their vote. There is no way to count them.

Abortion rights is the second mine field. This mine field is much larger. No one will argue abortion is a good thing, and it is always a poor choice among a short list of poor options. What's more, it's always a very private and secret thing. There are no bumper stickers or window decals. What there is, however, is the memory of the desperate situation which led to it. The candidate who rails against Roe v. Wade recalls that desperation and thoughts of what would have been, if abortion had not been available, or simply dangerous. Boom, another land mine goes off.

There is a third mine field and in the past week there have been so many mines explode, it sounds like a long crack of distant thunder. Like the first two mine fields, the people who wander across it, have no idea where they are.

Sexual assault is a very wide spectrum of behavior. It is so wide that there are many people don't recognize about half of assaults as being any kind of infringement. Unless there is an injury that requires medical attention, a sexual assault remains the victim's secret, or limited to a few close friends. After all, what can be done, after the fact? The effects range from mild indignation to life long emotional trauma, but there's no real outward appearance. There's no way to know, just by talking to someone, but it's there.
The actual quote is, “Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything.”

These are the words of a predator. When this now famous video hit the internet and airways, the sound of millions of land mines roared across the country with a great collective shudder. In the time it took to absorb these words, every sexual assault victim's memory boiled to the surface. Perhaps the worst part of this embarrassing incident is how well it illustrates what I said above about people not recognizing half of sexual assaults as a valid offense against another person.

There are people who think this kind of behavior is normal, and are not at all disturbed by it. There are people who think that it should be overlooked because other men have done similar things. We don't see that defense applied to armed robbery. In past centuries, we protected women from this kind of thing by keeping them locked in the house and closely supervised. That became very impractical, so we put them in charge of the sexual brakes. The rules were very complicated, but all a man had to remember was, he could do as much as she would let him do. For most men, this is a reasonable standard. There is always a fringe group that believe "yes" and "you can't stop me," mean the same thing.

If we go back to our room of 100 people, there will be a gay people and someone who had an abortion, at least one of each. Nearly every person in the room has had their life affected by sexual assault, either by being the victim, or being close to a victim. This is one of those, "If you don't see the problem, you are the problem," situations.
From the start of this election season, Donald Trump was a long shot. His odds have steadily improved, almost to the point of real possibility. That's gone now. There's no way out of this mine field.

He has revealed himself to be that worst of the privileged, the man who thinks he can take anything that can't be defended.

This goes far beyond his relationships with women. It explains all the contractors and vendors who supplied his building projects, and then not paid the due amount. It is the pattern of his life. It is pure foolishness to believe this mentality can be harnessed for the public good.

One of the most striking things about the "grab 'em by the pussy"-debacle is that these aren't the words of a teenager struggling with his transition from boy to man. He was 52 at the time. 52! Let that sink in. This is not a mature man. Mind is boggled.
 
...
Granted, they are leaders and not quite the same mentality as the right wing followers, but they share a great many cognitive traits with the regular, unambitious types. ...

Trump's supporters are now boiling down to a condensed reduction of male white supremacists and other unaware whack jobs, and they are a minority.

They are the chef's who burned the roux. Time to eat the gumbo.
 
I wonder what JEB is thinking now.

That's "JEB!".

Please-Clap-Shopped_640x345_acf_cropped.jpg
 
*****NEWS FLASH********

Donald Trump discovers new mine field.

Donald Trump Called Deaf ‘Apprentice’ Marlee Matlin ‘Retarded,’ Three Staffers Say

This may not seem like a big deal to a Trump supporter. After all, she does talk funny, and probably took his hand off her knee, so it's easy assumption to make. The real problem for Trump is simple. First, deaf people vote, and won't appreciate having their reigning queen labeled a retard.

Second, although most retarded people don't vote(clinically diagnosed retarded people, not just those who talk funny), the mothers, fathers, sisters, and brothers of retarded people do.
 
One of the most striking things about the "grab 'em by the pussy"-debacle is that these aren't the words of a teenager struggling with his transition from boy to man. He was 52 at the time. 52! Let that sink in. This is not a mature man. Mind is boggled.

59, actually. Not that anything past early 20's make much of a difference.
 
One of the most striking things about the "grab 'em by the pussy"-debacle is that these aren't the words of a teenager struggling with his transition from boy to man. He was 52 at the time. 52! Let that sink in. This is not a mature man. Mind is boggled.

59, actually. Not that anything past early 20's make much of a difference.

Once upon a time I worked in the entertainment industry and I spent a lot of time partying with famous people. What I learned is that a man who can get the pussy does not talk about it. If you can get the pussy, you just get the pussy. You do NOT brag about it. Doing that is about as cool as a Finish sauna. The guys who bragged about getting the pussy (in the way Trump does) are the guys who do NOT get the pussy. Food for thought.

Brings to mind the words of Margaret Thatcher. "Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are you aren't". I think the same applies to being a man.
 
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One of the most striking things about the "grab 'em by the pussy"-debacle is that these aren't the words of a teenager struggling with his transition from boy to man. He was 52 at the time. 52! Let that sink in. This is not a mature man. Mind is boggled.

It is an adolescent fantasy, but Trump is a man who never had to face the consequences of his actions. Consequences are the thing which pounds adolescence out of our bodies.
 
And actually, wasn't he 59?
What will Trumpy do, assuming he loses decisively on 11/8? First of all, it's beyond belief that he will concede. Never. He'll go down snarling and insisting that, look, just like I told you, it was rigged against me. But what shape will his public life take, in the next few months/years? Will he somehow continue to hold events? We know he get higher on his mob rallies than a Fentanyl shooter. Where will he find venues (and funding, because, for sure, he's a cheapass, as the 9/11 fund people found out)?
 
That is a good point. Absent the RNC paying for his rallies, how is he going to find a venue? Stadiums are going to start demanding cash upfront fairly quickly and I can't see him giving his own.
 
A great OP and a great discussion. I read through post #66 continuously.

I think that it is still a little early to while the coda to the Trump candidacy, this is a really good start.

Points at random,

  • It is worth pointing out that many of the posts here are from outside of the US. This election is vitally important for the world.
  • The US national elections are usually about whether the US will try to move forward or try to move in reverse. This election is about trying to move forward or whether we should jump into a deep dark well of despair.
  • We have to discuss the almost complete failure of our media in the ascension of Trump into, hopefully, nearly winning the presidency.
  • We need the Democrats to at least take the Senate as well as the presidency.
  • Trump isn't an aberration of the Republican party, he is the logical result of the direction of the party and of the conservative revolution.
  • Trump isn't going to concede the election and go meekly off into a retirement of golf, harassing pretty young women and well deserved obscurity.
  • He is going to monetize his message, to scam his supporters out of money as they have been scammed before by a long line of members of the right wing propaganda machine, race-baiters, real estate seminar salesmen and TV preachers.
  • He will claim that the election was rigged against him by the Clintons, the liberal media, the bankers and Wall Street because he represented such a threat against the status quo. That he has concrete evidence that proves this beyond question and that he will release it any day now.
  • The real shame of all of this is that his supporters have legitimate grievances.
  • Their wages have stagnated, their children face a worse future than their parents, and they are being denied any part of the growth of the economy.
  • Trump tells them the same things that the right has been telling them for forty years, that this sorry state is because of reverse racism, the government supporting the blacks, welfare, food stamps, etc. and that it all will be better if we give the rich another tax cut and to deregulate more. Trump has added the illegal immigrants to the list of reasons for their woes. These are lies.
  • Democrats seem to be unable or possibly even unwilling to counter this narrative. Instead we get the Democrats supporting the Washington consensus, which re enforces the right's narrative.
  • Nothing about this will change even if Trump loses in a landslide.

It is becoming increasingly difficult for me to write. I am sorry that this wildly out of sequence of the discussion.
 
People are already voting in some states. Early vote tends to favor Democrats, but any votes that are already cast are locked in regardless of what happens between now & when the polls close. I think Trump has probably lost this one, but I don't think people who are left of center should consider it over until the polls close.

This is what I have been trying to figure out. Bush II, Palin, Trump - stupid idiots all of them. Horrible "policies" from all of them. Yet they have so many followers.

George W. Bush - I could sort of understand. Even though there was nothing I could agree with him on, and his actions in office scared the daylights out of me. We are still stuck in a war he got us into with lies. Yet, I can acknowledge that he is an affable generally nice person; the guy you could sit down and have a beer with. That's enough for some people, I guess.

Sarah Palin - getting further down the rabbit hole with her; but as long as she kept her mouth shut, she was pretty. That's enough for some people, I guess.

What is Trump's redeeming feature? Hillary Clinton said she could admire Trump for his children. I can't. His children are proving to be as vile as he is, and that includes the youngest one, Barron. I haven't heard much about Tiffany. She might be ok, but the oldest 3 are as vicious and warped as Trump is.
 
Am I the only one who quite likes Hillary and thinks that she'll be a competent and effective President?

I think I'm the only one.

Nope. I'm a fan.

I didn't used to be. But I've learned more and more about her and I'm now an actual fan.
I _like_ that she knows her shit, inside and out. She doesn't bullshit and she doesn't prevaricate. If you say something new, she stops and listens and asks questions.
I like that she makes plans. Actual plans. With researched detail. That can then be read and critiqued or discussed. Or implemented as-is.
I like that she is not black and white. She understands nuance and compromise, if she must.
I love that she us unflappable. That woman is made of steel. She will not lose a negotiation from intimidation.
I love that she is compassionate. All the years of caring about outcomes for children. The fact that her foundation does so much worldwide for health.
Not a big fan of her more corporate ideas. But I believe the congress can push something to her and she won't veto it - I think she can be swayed on that.
I like her new positions on LGBT and I think they are new and also sincere.
I like very much that she keeps her religion to her personal actions. She shows that strongly religious people can be not-douchebags about it.


I wasn't in her camp to begin with, and I definitely would not support her in '08 - I did not want a "Dynasty" to become a mark of our country. Bush Clinton Bush Clinton... kind of tarred her with the Bush's brush, I suppose, but that's how I felt at the time, and I think I was right, still.

But now... Now I am a fan. I think she will do very well for us.

^^^ all of that.

I also think that, in spite of being a liberal, I was also swayed by the years and years of constant Hillary hate. Where there's smoke there's got to be fire? Except the more I look, the more I find that it is really mostly all just Republican smoke and mirrors. She doesn't inspire me the way Barack (and Michelle) Obama do. There are policy issues I disagree with her on, and I would like for her to be more progressive. (I am still so glad that Bernie Sanders ran because at least he was able to push her left on some issues.) But she is smart, solid, fair and strong - and I do think she genuinely cares about the country.
 
Nope. I'm a fan.

I didn't used to be. But I've learned more and more about her and I'm now an actual fan.
I _like_ that she knows her shit, inside and out. She doesn't bullshit and she doesn't prevaricate. If you say something new, she stops and listens and asks questions.
I like that she makes plans. Actual plans. With researched detail. That can then be read and critiqued or discussed. Or implemented as-is.
I like that she is not black and white. She understands nuance and compromise, if she must.
I love that she us unflappable. That woman is made of steel. She will not lose a negotiation from intimidation.
I love that she is compassionate. All the years of caring about outcomes for children. The fact that her foundation does so much worldwide for health.
Not a big fan of her more corporate ideas. But I believe the congress can push something to her and she won't veto it - I think she can be swayed on that.
I like her new positions on LGBT and I think they are new and also sincere.
I like very much that she keeps her religion to her personal actions. She shows that strongly religious people can be not-douchebags about it.


I wasn't in her camp to begin with, and I definitely would not support her in '08 - I did not want a "Dynasty" to become a mark of our country. Bush Clinton Bush Clinton... kind of tarred her with the Bush's brush, I suppose, but that's how I felt at the time, and I think I was right, still.

But now... Now I am a fan. I think she will do very well for us.

^^^ all of that.

I also think that, in spite of being a liberal, I was also swayed by the years and years of constant Hillary hate. Where there's smoke there's got to be fire? Except the more I look, the more I find that it is really mostly all just Republican smoke and mirrors. She doesn't inspire me the way Barack (and Michelle) Obama do. There are policy issues I disagree with her on, and I would like for her to be more progressive. (I am still so glad that Bernie Sanders ran because at least he was able to push her left on some issues.) But she is smart, solid, fair and strong - and I do think she genuinely cares about the country.

100% agree.
 
http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/13/media/donald-trump-media-strategy/index.html

Cancels on Hannity and closing their Virginia HQ. The Trumpettes must be coming to the realization this campaign is an EPIC FAIL.

That's surprising because he just did a rally speech where he was full bore Trump, saying everyone is in a conspiracy against him, the Clinton media machine, they have no ethics, the GOP establishment, his accusers who are liars who have it in for him and his family, he will sue everyone and take down the failing NY Times, and only he can save the planet from disaster, and he is going to win because you can't believe the polls except for Rasmussen. Don't see why he would back out from a friendly interview where he will be free to say the same lines.

Come to think of it, I can't recall the last time Trump did an appearance on TV himself...even in friendly territory. His basket of deplorable surrogates have done all the talking since Pussygate when it comes to promoting Trump on the "news." I have an idea why that might be.

A friend of mine does impressions. He's very good. He's been the voice of Obama on a TV sitcom, and occasionally does Trump for Jimmy Kimmel. And while he's good in a studio setting, put him on stage in front of people and he really lights up. That immediate reaction from the crowd feeds his ego, and when he's getting laughter or applause it makes his performance so much better. For Trump it's likely the same. He gets off on being in front of a crowd and going "full bore Trump" in a way that he just can't while sitting in a chair under hot studio lights or over a satellite link. Millions of people may be watching, but he's only getting feedback from the one or two people he's talking with. Plus when he's at a rally, the only time he's interrupted is by thunderous applause, not some pundit.

It may very well be that Wednesday night's debate will be the last time before the election that Trump puts himself in a position where he can be directly challenged...either by a moderator or his opponent. After that, it will be a couple weeks worth of rallies whose sole purpose will be to feed his already massive ego.
 
People are already voting in some states. Early vote tends to favor Democrats, but any votes that are already cast are locked in regardless of what happens between now & when the polls close. I think Trump has probably lost this one, but I don't think people who are left of center should consider it over until the polls close.

This is what I have been trying to figure out. Bush II, Palin, Trump - stupid idiots all of them. Horrible "policies" from all of them. Yet they have so many followers.

George W. Bush - I could sort of understand. Even though there was nothing I could agree with him on, and his actions in office scared the daylights out of me. We are still stuck in a war he got us into with lies. Yet, I can acknowledge that he is an affable generally nice person; the guy you could sit down and have a beer with. That's enough for some people, I guess.

Sarah Palin - getting further down the rabbit hole with her; but as long as she kept her mouth shut, she was pretty. That's enough for some people, I guess.

What is Trump's redeeming feature? Hillary Clinton said she could admire Trump for his children. I can't. His children are proving to be as vile as he is, and that includes the youngest one, Barron. I haven't heard much about Tiffany. She might be ok, but the oldest 3 are as vicious and warped as Trump is.

I don't disagree.

I don't think McCain was good either, at least on the unnecessary wars front, but I also think that he was done wrong in SC in the Republican primary in 2000. Specifically the part about claiming he had a biracial child behind his wife's back. I do think he did the right thing when he referred to some of the religious right's leaders as "agents of intolerance" and that he did the right thing when he took the mic away from the woman who called then Senator Obama an Arab. I think he should have picked someone else as his VP choice, but I'm not sure who. Maybe Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-ME) or Sen. Susan Collins (R-ME).

I agree for Bush II. I do think that a politicians Charisma stat does have some bearing on his success outside of his party's hardcore base. I think it affects both turnout & the ability to persuade those willing to listen. It might make the difference in a close election. Bill Clinton had a higher Charisma stat than Bush I or Dole. Bush II had a higher Charisma stat than Gore or Kerry. Obama had a much higher stat than either Romney or McCain. Trump has a higher charisma stat than Hillary Clinton. Both Bill Clinton & Barack Obama had other advantages over their opponents in addition to their Charisma advantage. I think HRC has some advantages as well, just not this one. I think she'll win enough key states to win, but they will be "too close to call" for a longer period of time than I feel comfortable with.

Agreed, Gov. Palin was physically pretty in a "naughty librarian" type of way, but when she opens her mouth a different story. My grandfather used to say "pretty is as pretty does". It applies in Gov. Palin.

I think Clinton was being civil with Trump when she praised his children.
 
Part of it is 20+ years of far right hate mongering on AM radio, Faux Newz et al. Here in Houston AM talk is all far right hate radio. This means the hatefulness and lies have been normalized for many.
 
That's the same sherriff that let two people die of dehydration in his jail.
 
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