The Race For 2024

[TSwizzle]

If you really believe this, then why don’t you leave the USA now? Why wait?

To stay and fight to restore his country against the Christian nationalism, maybe?

Well, I got the impression Colonel a dystopian, authoritarian hell hole was inevitable.

Are you too stupid to figure out that there are other options that fleeing?

Talk to the colonel about it, he’s the one who thinks authoritarian rule is inevitable.

I think it likely is inevitable too. But the right reaction to it, no matter what, is fighting it.

Suit yourself.

The election this year isn't about Republicans versus Democrats and their differing policies. It's about siding with Christian nationalist authoritarianism versus siding with the US Constitution.

Such drama.

 

[TSwizzle]

If you really believe this, then why don’t you leave the USA now? Why wait?

To stay and fight to restore his country against the Christian nationalism, maybe?

Are you too stupid to figure out that there are other options than fleeing?

Seriously. Even if cowardice were a virtue, it's not that easy or desirable to just pick up and go.

This is true. Leaving the USA is much easier if you are a rich Hollywood luvvie.

And if the US is falling to authoritarianism, what safe harbor is out there for a left-wing American expat, ayway? Finland? New Zealand? The list is getting awfully short, and if Trump and his goonies follow the Duterte model, diaspora communities don't guarantee safety anyway. Anyone who knows one, knows.

Not “if” old bean. Apparently it’s a certainty. I would start packing soon if I were you.

Such fantasists. It’s weird.

 

[TSwizzle]

Does anyone know the Canadian policy on refugees?

I’m sure Canada has some sort of asylum policy in place. Don’t delay, get your application started. The sooner the better.

 

[unapologetic]

Does anyone know the Canadian policy on refugees?

From another thread:

And if Trump manages to win, he will act as if he won full immunity for everything. If he is able to implement Project 2025, the executive branch becomes an arm of the Trump organization, and will be filled with loyalists, sycophants, and grifters. Since he pretty clearly has the judicial branch, all he would need is the GOP to retain control of the House and win the Senate. He would be - as he said - a dictator on day one. And then on day two. And every day thereafter.

I hear Costa Rica is nice. Low cost of living, nice weather, lots of American expats already living there. Perhaps Canada? I was just talking to my mom about this yesterday before the decision was handed down, and she had an idea. Throw everything we can fit into the boat and head across the river to the Canadian side. If I sold my house, I'd have enough to live abroad for years while America descends into fascism. Which reminds me...I need to renew my passport.

Just make sure to report promptly to an official port of entry, and register as a refugee with the Canadian authorities; Failure to do so will likely result in criminal liability for yourself and your family, and may get you deported back to the USA, unless you can show strong evidence that such a deportation could place your life at risk.

Asylum seekers would be considered in violation of the IRPA if they cross at an unofficial border point, do not promptly go to a port of entry, and do not file a refugee claim. In addition to potential criminal charges, asylum seekers would have their cases rejected.

Wikipedia

You cannot just walk in to Canada.

Well, obviously, you can, but you can't expect to be allowed to live and work there indefinitely if you do, nor can you apply to be able to do so after you have entered the country - unless you are applying for refugee status.

If you want to stay indefinitely, your best bet is to apply for residency before you leave, and to enter via an official port of entry.

Thanks. Keeping this for future reference, er... for a friend.

 

[Derec]

Does that alleged child have a name? Is there any evidence?

https://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/Johnson_TrumpEpstein_Calif_Lawsuit.pdf

Since "Katie Johnson" is a pseudonym, the answer would be "no" as to the name. A court filing from 2016 that went nowhere (the case was dismissed in May of that same year) does not constitute evidence either.

Trump often appears to be suffering from dementia.

Perhaps. I am not a neurologist. The point is that he comes across energetic and in command of his faculties. You must admit that Biden's performance in the debate was Mariana Trench level abysmal.

The Felon is good at aping, it doesn't stand out. And mostly he's just making canned statements rather than actually thinking.

Nevertheless, he sounds better than Biden, even when he is spouting nonsense. That is a problem since the average voter does not pay much attention.

 

[Derec]

Sketchy because it’s inconvenient. This woman was 13 when she was raped and otherwise she abused by rich and powerful men.

How do you know that what she is claiming is true? You are categorically stating it as a fact, but all we have are some pseudonymous allegations from a lawsuit that was dismissed.

It is not easy to come forward with claims of rape or sexual assault.

How is it not? Especially when you are hiding behind a pseudonym.

Easier if you are one of those very few who were dragged into a dark alley by a stranger, preferably black. Which rarely happens.

Far more frequently than being kept as a "sex slave" by a man who would 2 decades later be elected president.
Note that blacks are, according to FBI, overrepresented among perpetrators of rape by a factor of two. So it is hardly "rare".

If memory serves, she withdrew her suit just after Jeffrey Epstein hung or ‘hung’ himself.

She filed several. First was dismissed in 2016, but I guess she tried filing over and over again. Note that she filed "pro per" on a $100M lawsuit. No actual lawyer wanted to touch it, despite the prospect of a juicy contingency fee.

 

[Derec]

Seriously. Even if cowardice were a virtue, it's not that easy or desirable to just pick up and go. And if the US is falling to authoritarianism, what safe harbor is out there for a left-wing American expat, ayway? Finland? New Zealand? The list is getting awfully short, and if Trump and his goonies follow the Duterte model, diaspora communities don't guarantee safety anyway. Anyone who knows one, knows.

Sounds pretty paranoid. Also, where do you get off comparing MAGA with the Goonies?

 

[Toni]

Sketchy because it’s inconvenient. This woman was 13 when she was raped and otherwise she abused by rich and powerful men.

How do you know that what she is claiming is true? You are categorically stating it as a fact, but all we have are some pseudonymous allegations from a lawsuit that was dismissed.

It is not easy to come forward with claims of rape or sexual assault.

How is it not? Especially when you are hiding behind a pseudonym.

Easier if you are one of those very few who were dragged into a dark alley by a stranger, preferably black. Which rarely happens.

Far more frequently than being kept as a "sex slave" by a man who would 2 decades later be elected president.
Note that blacks are, according to FBI, overrepresented among perpetrators of rape by a factor of two. So it is hardly "rare".

If memory serves, she withdrew her suit just after Jeffrey Epstein hung or ‘hung’ himself.

She filed several. First was dismissed in 2016, but I guess she tried filing over and over again. Note that she filed "pro per" on a $100M lawsuit. No actual lawyer wanted to touch it, despite the prospect of a juicy contingency fee.

The narrative laid out in court testimony sounds truthful. Leaving out the particular nabes of the men she claimed assaulted her, it rings true as a story related by some one of the events that happened when she was 13. Note that her testimony was corroborated by the other girl who was 12 or 13 at the time of the assaults. Moreover, they fit in well with the narratives described by other victims.

Having myself been sexually assaulted at 13, I can well understand why she did not come forward before. The only person in my family who knows about my assaults are the perpetrator and….my father!/ third wife who told me I would t believe what ( family member) was saying about the perpetrator. I asked what was being says and I find her I was certain it was true because he had done the same things to me. There are complicated reasons about why I’ve never told the rest of the family what happened. Some of them center around being 13 at the time but mostly they had to do with tremendous fear of what would happen if I here believed and what would happen if I were not. I would not have survived if I had not been believed. That is not an exaggeration. I struggled with suicidal thoughts for years, with my biggest concerns being that my suicide would hurt my parents—and that I might not succeed.

It is not a secret ( anymore) that many young would be models and actresses are pressured to engage in sex acts abd sometimes are forced to engage in unwanted sex—they are raped. Of course for years it was simply referred to as the casting couch and the shame attributed to the victim and not to the powerful person with authority who would be believed over their victims. It happened to men and boys, as well.

Is it easier to believe because I detest Trump? Perhaps. But I also believe the victims of Bill Cosby whose work I’ve enjoyed since I was a child, as well as the victims of Kevin Soacey—again, whose work I admire. Don always believe claims? No. I’ve read a few that literally do not make sense, largely because I happen to be familiar with the place the alleged act took place and… it is implausible that things could have happened as described—too much foot traffic and unpredictable foot traffic would have made it very difficult for things to have happened as described.

In any case, it is mostly plausible because Jeffery Epstein was convicted of procuring a child for prostitution and soliciting a prostitute, in a controversial plea deal. He was accused of much more. Jeffrey Epstein was convicted of child prostitution. Why is it implausible that this person is one of those he procured?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Sketchy because it’s inconvenient. This woman was 13 when she was raped and otherwise she abused by rich and powerful men.

It is not easy to come forward with claims of rape or sexual assault. Easier if you are one of those very few who were dragged into a dark alley by a stranger, preferably black. Which rarely happens.

If memory serves, she withdrew her suit just after Jeffrey Epstein hung or ‘hung’ himself.

Agreed, but the question comes down to why she withdrew it. I've seen claims that it was because she was scared out of it.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

This all sounds like a bunch of copium. Sure, things can turn around before the election, but at this point I'm trying to figure out what my role will be when this nation becomes an authoritarian one.

Such drama

If you really believe this, then why don’t you leave the USA now? Why wait?

You think it's that easy?

The cheapest I can find for an English-speaking country is Ireland. 1 million Euro investment for three years, 2 million Euro net worth.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Does that alleged child have a name? Is there any evidence?

https://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/Johnson_TrumpEpstein_Calif_Lawsuit.pdf

Since "Katie Johnson" is a pseudonym, the answer would be "no" as to the name. A court filing from 2016 that went nowhere (the case was dismissed in May of that same year) does not constitute evidence either.

The court obviously knew who she was.

Trump often appears to be suffering from dementia.

Perhaps. I am not a neurologist. The point is that he comes across energetic and in command of his faculties. You must admit that Biden's performance in the debate was Mariana Trench level abysmal.

The Felon is good at aping, it doesn't stand out. And mostly he's just making canned statements rather than actually thinking.

Nevertheless, he sounds better than Biden, even when he is spouting nonsense. That is a problem since the average voter does not pay much attention.

So you are judging based on how they sound rather than what they say?

I really don't want a president that spouts nonsense!

 

[thebeave]

Does that alleged child have a name? Is there any evidence?

https://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/Johnson_TrumpEpstein_Calif_Lawsuit.pdf

Since "Katie Johnson" is a pseudonym, the answer would be "no" as to the name. A court filing from 2016 that went nowhere (the case was dismissed in May of that same year) does not constitute evidence either.

The court obviously knew who she was.

Trump often appears to be suffering from dementia.

Perhaps. I am not a neurologist. The point is that he comes across energetic and in command of his faculties. You must admit that Biden's performance in the debate was Mariana Trench level abysmal.

The Felon is good at aping, it doesn't stand out. And mostly he's just making canned statements rather than actually thinking.

Nevertheless, he sounds better than Biden, even when he is spouting nonsense. That is a problem since the average voter does not pay much attention.

So you are judging based on how they sound rather than what they say?

I really don't want a president that spouts nonsense!

You don't have a choice in this election!

 

[Politesse]

Seriously. Even if cowardice were a virtue, it's not that easy or desirable to just pick up and go. And if the US is falling to authoritarianism, what safe harbor is out there for a left-wing American expat, ayway? Finland? New Zealand? The list is getting awfully short, and if Trump and his goonies follow the Duterte model, diaspora communities don't guarantee safety anyway. Anyone who knows one, knows.

Sounds pretty paranoid. Also, where do you get off comparing MAGA with the Goonies?

So in support of your argument that the Goonies are not a good analogy to the Trumpistas, you present me with exhibit A of a child delusionally insisting that simply not saying "death" will somehow protect you from it? You're gonna die in cross-examination.

 

[Colonel Sanders]

This all sounds like a bunch of copium. Sure, things can turn around before the election, but at this point I'm trying to figure out what my role will be when this nation becomes an authoritarian one.

Such drama

If you really believe this, then why don’t you leave the USA now? Why wait?

I started my application for Canadian citizenship back around 2018. Then I figured I'd wait and see what happened. When the yam dragon was slain in 2020 I figured it was over, that there would be a return to normalcy. Even at this time last year I didn't think Trump would be a viable candidate. In the meantime I worked, did things, etc.

Drama? Whatever. I wonder if that's what some German guy told his Jewish neighbor in 1932.

 

[Derec]

The narrative laid out in court testimony sounds truthful.

Even if it does, verisimilitude is not evidence that it actually happened.

Note that her testimony was corroborated by the other girl who was 12 or 13 at the time of the assaults.

Does she go by a pseudonym as well?

Moreover, they fit in well with the narratives described by other victims.

Could be an attempt to capitalize on those other cases then.

Having myself been sexually assaulted at 13, I can well understand why she did not come forward before.

That would explain why you automatically believe the 13 year old (at the time) accuser.

It is not a secret ( anymore) that many young would be models and actresses are pressured to engage in sex acts abd sometimes are forced to engage in unwanted sex—they are raped. Of course for years it was simply referred to as the casting couch and the shame attributed to the victim and not to the powerful person with authority who would be believed over their victims. It happened to men and boys, as well.

As long as the person is of age and not being forced into it, I do not think it should be a crime, much less "rape".
Of course it is unethical, but both people in the transaction are behaving unethically here, not just the casting agent.

Is it easier to believe because I detest Trump? Perhaps.

Most definitely. Also because of your history.

But I also believe the victims of Bill Cosby whose work I’ve enjoyed since I was a child, as well as the victims of Kevin Soacey—again, whose work I admire.

Bill Cosby most probably did commit those crimes, but he should not have been convicted because of the agreement he made in exchange for testimony. For the corrupt DA to disregard that agreement and prosecute him anyway was highly unethical and the conviction was rightly vacated.
Kevin Spacey I am far less sure. The allegations made were much more muddled (if I recall correctly) and the accuser was a mess.

Don always believe claims? No. I’ve read a few that literally do not make sense, largely because I happen to be familiar with the place the alleged act took place and… it is implausible that things could have happened as described—too much foot traffic and unpredictable foot traffic would have made it very difficult for things to have happened as described.

Like for example a changing room at Bergdorf's. Not to mention she lifted the scenario from an SVU episode.

In any case, it is mostly plausible because Jeffery Epstein was convicted of procuring a child for prostitution and soliciting a prostitute, in a controversial plea deal. He was accused of much more. Jeffrey Epstein was convicted of child prostitution. Why is it implausible that this person is one of those he procured?

It's not implausible, and Trump may well be guilty of what she alleges, but something being plausible is not evidence.

 

[Derec]

You think it's that easy?
The cheapest I can find for an English-speaking country is Ireland. 1 million Euro investment for three years, 2 million Euro net worth.

What about Belize?

 

[Derec]

The court obviously knew who she was.

And the court dismissed the original 2016 case. I think she, whoever she is, withdrew the others.

So you are judging based on how they sound rather than what they say?

I am not, but many of the voters do.

I really don't want a president that spouts nonsense!

Me neither. And yet, he is currently leading Biden by >2 percentage points in the 538 polling average.

 

[laughing dog]

The narrative laid out in court testimony sounds truthful.

Even if it does, verisimilitude is not evidence that it actually happened.

Note that her testimony was corroborated by the other girl who was 12 or 13 at the time of the assaults.

Does she go by a pseudonym as well?

Moreover, they fit in well with the narratives described by other victims.

Could be an attempt to capitalize on those other cases then.

Having myself been sexually assaulted at 13, I can well understand why she did not come forward before.

That would explain why you automatically believe the 13 year old (at the time) accuser.

It is not a secret ( anymore) that many young would be models and actresses are pressured to engage in sex acts abd sometimes are forced to engage in unwanted sex—they are raped. Of course for years it was simply referred to as the casting couch and the shame attributed to the victim and not to the powerful person with authority who would be believed over their victims. It happened to men and boys, as well.

As long as the person is of age and not being forced into it, I do not think it should be a crime, much less "rape".
Of course it is unethical, but both people in the transaction are behaving unethically here, not just the casting agent.

Is it easier to believe because I detest Trump? Perhaps.

Most definitely. Also because of your history.

But I also believe the victims of Bill Cosby whose work I’ve enjoyed since I was a child, as well as the victims of Kevin Soacey—again, whose work I admire.

Bill Cosby most probably did commit those crimes, but he should not have been convicted because of the agreement he made in exchange for testimony. For the corrupt DA to disregard that agreement and prosecute him anyway was highly unethical and the conviction was rightly vacated.
Kevin Spacey I am far less sure. The allegations made were much more muddled (if I recall correctly) and the accuser was a mess.

Don always believe claims? No. I’ve read a few that literally do not make sense, largely because I happen to be familiar with the place the alleged act took place and… it is implausible that things could have happened as described—too much foot traffic and unpredictable foot traffic would have made it very difficult for things to have happened as described.

Like for example a changing room at Bergdorf's. Not to mention she lifted the scenario from an SVU episode.

In any case, it is mostly plausible because Jeffery Epstein was convicted of procuring a child for prostitution and soliciting a prostitute, in a controversial plea deal. He was accused of much more. Jeffrey Epstein was convicted of child prostitution. Why is it implausible that this person is one of those he procured?

It's not implausible, and Trump may well be guilty of what she alleges, but something being plausible is not evidence.

The testimony of a victim is evidence.

 

[Derec]

So in support of your argument that the Goonies are not a good analogy to the Trumpistas, you present me with exhibit A of a child delusionally insisting that simply not saying "death" will somehow protect you from it?

Where is he saying that not saying "death" will protect him from it? It's part of a motivational speech. A speech against fatalism and for perseverance. Mikey is admonishing Andy not to think negatively (that Chuck is dead) but to stay positive.

Besides, the Fratellis are a better analogy for MAGA.

You're gonna die in cross-examination.

Cross-examination about what? An 80s kids' adventure movie?

 

[Derec]

The testimony of a victim is evidence.

Quoting a whole wall of text just to say that?

You are prejudging the case by calling this pseudonymous accuser "victim". And anybody could make all sorts of accusations. That does not make them true. Which is why the case was dismissed.