The Race For 2024

[Toni]

The narrative laid out in court testimony sounds truthful.

Even if it does, verisimilitude is not evidence that it actually happened.

Note that her testimony was corroborated by the other girl who was 12 or 13 at the time of the assaults.

Does she go by a pseudonym as well?

Moreover, they fit in well with the narratives described by other victims.

Could be an attempt to capitalize on those other cases then.

Having myself been sexually assaulted at 13, I can well understand why she did not come forward before.

That would explain why you automatically believe the 13 year old (at the time) accuser.

It is not a secret ( anymore) that many young would be models and actresses are pressured to engage in sex acts abd sometimes are forced to engage in unwanted sex—they are raped. Of course for years it was simply referred to as the casting couch and the shame attributed to the victim and not to the powerful person with authority who would be believed over their victims. It happened to men and boys, as well.

As long as the person is of age and not being forced into it, I do not think it should be a crime, much less "rape".
Of course it is unethical, but both people in the transaction are behaving unethically here, not just the casting agent.

Is it easier to believe because I detest Trump? Perhaps.

Most definitely. Also because of your history.

But I also believe the victims of Bill Cosby whose work I’ve enjoyed since I was a child, as well as the victims of Kevin Soacey—again, whose work I admire.

Bill Cosby most probably did commit those crimes, but he should not have been convicted because of the agreement he made in exchange for testimony. For the corrupt DA to disregard that agreement and prosecute him anyway was highly unethical and the conviction was rightly vacated.
Kevin Spacey I am far less sure. The allegations made were much more muddled (if I recall correctly) and the accuser was a mess.

Don always believe claims? No. I’ve read a few that literally do not make sense, largely because I happen to be familiar with the place the alleged act took place and… it is implausible that things could have happened as described—too much foot traffic and unpredictable foot traffic would have made it very difficult for things to have happened as described.

Like for example a changing room at Bergdorf's. Not to mention she lifted the scenario from an SVU episode.

In any case, it is mostly plausible because Jeffery Epstein was convicted of procuring a child for prostitution and soliciting a prostitute, in a controversial plea deal. He was accused of much more. Jeffrey Epstein was convicted of child prostitution. Why is it implausible that this person is one of those he procured?

It's not implausible, and Trump may well be guilty of what she alleges, but something being plausible is not evidence.

Dressing room in Bergdorfs? I've never been but I've been in multiple dressing rooms in my lifetime and yeah, people can and do engage in sex acts in some of these. I would be surprised if there were zero rapes in such places. The specific incident I was thinking of entailed a supposed assault that happened in a busy corridor in a government building that I had spent some time in long ago. It just wasn't....plausible for multiple reasons but the location was the biggest one. I don't remember the details.

As to the woman who claims to have been raped by Trump as a child only coming forward when other accusers did. I understand it very well. There is always the deep fear that you will not be believed, or that people will blame you. It's a lot to have on the line so there is safety in numbers. I DO absolutely regret not coming forward when I learned my attacker was marrying a woman with 2 daughters about 12 and 14 or so. I did try to get a moment to take her aside and tell her to be careful--and why but the chance never materialized. This was at a big family event so......Anyway, later, they divorced (his second) and both ex wives stated domestic violence as factors, which, given what I know about his temper, is entirely plausible. I genuinely hope that was the worst of it. And yeah, sometimes it keeps me up at nights.

But to this day, I have not disclosed to family still living who know him. A small part of me fears that they either would not believe me --why would I tell anyone 50+ years after the fact?? Or blame me. Or minimize. I was not actually raped. He did not anticipate me fighting back--which was dumb of him. He knew me well enough to know I was not shy about standing up for myself. Still, shock can paralyze you. It's a coping mechanism. We talk about fight or flight but there's also freeze and try to make yourself small and invisible. Unfortunately for him, it turns out, I'm a fighter. All of that said, if I had had any whiff of a hint that he was ever ever ever around any of my nieces: I would have told all the family AFTER I had a very, very serious talk about him about exactly what would happen if I ever heard even a hint that he looked funny at any of them. Which I should have done when I learned he was marrying again. But: family event (funeral, actually) and not a chance to warn anyone. He did not let her an arm's length away from him at any time.

 

[Toni]

The testimony of a victim is evidence.

Quoting a whole wall of text just to say that?

You are prejudging the case by calling this pseudonymous accuser "victim". And anybody could make all sorts of accusations. That does not make them true. Which is why the case was dismissed.

She withdrew her claims. I believe she was fearful in light of Jeffrey Epstein's hanging.

Yes, years later there is unlikely to be actual evidence remaining. A second victim corroborated her testimony.

 

[Politesse]

Cross-examination about what? An 80s kids' adventure movie?

They should really train Trumpistas on how to detect humor.

 

[laughing dog]

You are prejudging the case by calling this pseudonymous accuser "victim". And anybody could make all sorts of accusations. That does not make them true. Which is why the case was dismissed.

She is a victim of something.

You are right. Anybody can make all sorts if ckaims that are not true,including one’s about false allegations or that her case was dismissed because it was not true.

And what is your oroblem with the alleged victim’s anonymity? It is to protect her privacy si that the myriads of Magatards and rape apologists cannot engage in a smear campaign until an actual trial.

 

[ZiprHead]

You think it's that easy?
The cheapest I can find for an English-speaking country is Ireland. 1 million Euro investment for three years, 2 million Euro net worth.

What about Belize?

I've heard there are places in Italy they will pay you to go to.

 

[ZiprHead]

You think it's that easy?
The cheapest I can find for an English-speaking country is Ireland. 1 million Euro investment for three years, 2 million Euro net worth.

What about Belize?

I've heard there are places in Italy they will pay you to go to.

Relocation Grants: Get paid to move to Italy in 2023

Can you get paid to move to Italy in 2023? Yes you can! In a recent episode, we looked at places in the US that will pay you to move there. But the world is a big place, and if you’re up for an…

www.schiffsovereign.com

CALABRIA REGION, ITALY:​

Fancy moving to a bucolic Italian hamlet with less than 2,000 residents? To combat population decline, the Calabria region – situated on the tip of the “boot” if you look at the map, northeast of Palermo – is offering new residents a relocation grant of up to €28,000 (~$30,000) over a period of three years.

That’s about $10,000 per year to help you get settled in.

 

[unapologetic]

CALABRIA REGION, ITALY:​

Fancy moving to a bucolic Italian hamlet with less than 2,000 residents? To combat population decline, the Calabria region – situated on the tip of the “boot” if you look at the map, northeast of Palermo – is offering new residents a relocation grant of up to €28,000 (~$30,000) over a period of three years.

That’s about $10,000 per year to help you get settled in.

But they're catholic. :-(

 

[Derec]

You think it's that easy?
The cheapest I can find for an English-speaking country is Ireland. 1 million Euro investment for three years, 2 million Euro net worth.

What about Belize?

I've heard there are places in Italy they will pay you to go to.

Loren said "English-speaking".

 

[Derec]

She is a victim of something.

How do you know?

You are right. Anybody can make all sorts if ckaims that are not true,including one’s about false allegations or that her case was dismissed because it was not true.

The case was certainly dismissed.

And what is your oroblem with the alleged victim’s anonymity?

It doesn't allow even cursory scrutiny of her allegations.

It is to protect her privacy si that the myriads of Magatards and rape apologists cannot engage in a smear campaign until an actual trial

If you make accusation of heinous crimes you should stand behind them, not hide behind a pseudonym. If your accusations cannot stand to scrutiny, that should be found out before the trial. One doesn't have to be a "Magatard" or a "rape apologist" to view unsubstantiated rape allegations with skepticism.
I do not think the likes of Crystal Mangum or Jackie Coakley should be able to hide behind the veil of anonymity either.
Also,

Your typo density is way too fucking high.

 

[unapologetic]

What happens if one of the canidates steps down or dies just before the election?
Does the VP canidate run instead? Do they postpone the election? Does the other party win by default?
- asking for a friend.

 

[Derec]

They should really train Trumpistas on how to detect humor.

Not a "Trumpista" and my reply was tongue-in-cheek too.

 

[Derec]

Dressing room in Bergdorfs?

That's where EJC claims the attack happened, sometime in the 90s. She had no evidence whatsoever for that claim, and yet corrupt courts awarded her tens of millions for that tall tale. Not to mention that she lifted it from a 2012 episode of Law and Order SVU.

I've never been but I've been in multiple dressing rooms in my lifetime and yeah, people can and do engage in sex acts in some of these. I would be surprised if there were zero rapes in such places.

Consensual sexual acts where both have an incentive to keep it quiet is one thing. Attemted rape where there is an incentive to scream or make other noise is quite another.

As to the woman who claims to have been raped by Trump as a child only coming forward when other accusers did. I understand it very well. There is always the deep fear that you will not be believed, or that people will blame you. It's a lot to have on the line so there is safety in numbers.

The problem is that when you wait there is no way to prove it happened as any evidence is long gone. So you have to rely on popularity or lack thereof.

 

[Toni]

Dressing room in Bergdorfs?

That's where EJC claims the attack happened, sometime in the 90s. She had no evidence whatsoever for that claim, and yet corrupt courts awarded her tens of millions for that tall tale. Not to mention that she lifted it from a 2012 episode of Law and Order SVU.

I've never been but I've been in multiple dressing rooms in my lifetime and yeah, people can and do engage in sex acts in some of these. I would be surprised if there were zero rapes in such places.

Consensual sexual acts where both have an incentive to keep it quiet is one thing. Attemted rape where there is an incentive to scream or make other noise is quite another.

As to the woman who claims to have been raped by Trump as a child only coming forward when other accusers did. I understand it very well. There is always the deep fear that you will not be believed, or that people will blame you. It's a lot to have on the line so there is safety in numbers.

The problem is that when you wait there is no way to prove it happened as any evidence is long gone. So you have to rely on popularity or lack thereof.

I knew where the attack happened. As far as who lifted what—L&O was known to base episodes on real life incidents. I’m guessing someone knew Carroll or she ghost wrote the episode. * And she kept the dress.

As for the person testifying about what happened when she was a child: There was a corroborating witness. Consent is not an issue as she was 13 at the time. There could not have been any consent.

This is not about popularity or how much I like or don’t like anyone.

 

[laughing dog]

She is a victim of something.

How do you know?

Anyone makes such allegations - true or false - is a victim of something.

You are right. Anybody can make all sorts if ckaims that are not true,including one’s about false allegations or that her case was dismissed because it was not true.

The case was certainly dismissed.

Yes, but you prejudged the merits because you don't know why it was dismissed.

And what is your oroblem with the alleged victim’s anonymity?

It doesn't allow even cursory scrutiny of her allegations.

If it is a criminal complaint, then the investigating authorities have her name and can investigate. If it is a civil complaint, the defendants' lawyers can get the information to scrutinize the complaint before trial.

Now, if you are complaining that you don't get to scrutinize he allegations before trial, well, that is just too effing bad.

It is to protect her privacy si that the myriads of Magatards and rape apologists cannot engage in a smear campaign until an actual trial

If you make accusation of heinous crimes you should stand behind them, not hide behind a pseudonym. If your accusations cannot stand to scrutiny, that should be found out before the trial. One doesn't have to be a "Magatard" or a "rape apologist" to view unsubstantiated rape allegations with skepticism.

Skepticism does not require smear tactics. For that matter, neither does rape apologia.

I do not think the likes of Crystal Mangum or Jackie Coakley should be able to hide behind the veil of anonymity either.

They're not.

 

[TSwizzle]

This all sounds like a bunch of copium. Sure, things can turn around before the election, but at this point I'm trying to figure out what my role will be when this nation becomes an authoritarian one.

Such drama

If you really believe this, then why don’t you leave the USA now? Why wait?

I started my application for Canadian citizenship back around 2018. Then I figured I'd wait and see what happened. When the yam dragon was slain in 2020 I figured it was over, that there would be a return to normalcy. Even at this time last year I didn't think Trump would be a viable candidate. In the meantime I worked, did things, etc.

Oh you started it? lol.

Drama? Whatever. I wonder if that's what some German guy told his Jewish neighbor in 1932.

This is absurd.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

It is not a secret ( anymore) that many young would be models and actresses are pressured to engage in sex acts abd sometimes are forced to engage in unwanted sex—they are raped. Of course for years it was simply referred to as the casting couch and the shame attributed to the victim and not to the powerful person with authority who would be believed over their victims. It happened to men and boys, as well.

As long as the person is of age and not being forced into it, I do not think it should be a crime, much less "rape".
Of course it is unethical, but both people in the transaction are behaving unethically here, not just the casting agent.

It's a form of kickback and should always be illegal. The problem isn't the sex per se, but that it's a form of paying the person to give you a job.

What would you say if the person who decided whether you were hired or not said "Put $10k in my pocket if you want me to hire you"?

Note that this is very different than simply hiring someone to provide sex. Or hiring someone to do an assortment of things which include sex.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You think it's that easy?
The cheapest I can find for an English-speaking country is Ireland. 1 million Euro investment for three years, 2 million Euro net worth.

What about Belize?

Didn't think they were English.....yeah, while the official language is English it's not what most people actually speak.

And I see other things--the crime situation isn't too good. The healthcare situation is bad.

 

[Derec]

As long as the person is of age and not being forced into it, I do not think it should be a crime, much less "rape".
Of course it is unethical, but both people in the transaction are behaving unethically here, not just the casting agent.

It's a form of kickback and should always be illegal. The problem isn't the sex per se, but that it's a form of paying the person to give you a job.

Both parties are in the wrong here. The person who provides the bribe in the form of sex is not a victim here.

 

[Derec]

Anyone makes such allegations - true or false - is a victim of something.

No. If the allegations are false, the accuser is a perpetrator. The falsely accused is the victim.

Yes, but you prejudged the merits because you don't know why it was dismissed.

It was dismissed because she filed it in pro per and messed up on the legal issues. That does not mean that there was any merit to it.

If it is a criminal complaint, then the investigating authorities have her name and can investigate. If it is a civil complaint, the defendants' lawyers can get the information to scrutinize the complaint before trial.

If allegations of a heinous crime are made against a public person, there should be a public scrutiny of the claims. Especially when it is a presidential candidate and the claims are made in an election year. I do not think there should be anonymous allegations made against Biden either - that too would be highly suspect.

Skepticism does not require smear tactics. For that matter, neither does rape apologia.

To you, pointing out true facts about somebody are "smear tactics".

I do not think the likes of Crystal Mangum or Jackie Coakley should be able to hide behind the veil of anonymity either.

They're not.

And neither should so-called "Katie Johnson", whoever she is.

 

[Derec]

I knew where the attack happened. As far as who lifted what—L&O was known to base episodes on real life incidents. I’m guessing someone knew Carroll or she ghost wrote the episode. *

What evidence do you have that she "ghost wrote the episode" or even knew the writers?
I think it is much more likely that she watched the episode and maybe subconsciously used the location when constructing her narrative. She strikes me as a fabulist. Note that the allegation against Trump first surfaced when she was promoting her book where every chapter is some man either assaulting or otherwise mistreating her throughout her life.

And she kept the dress.

Which just shows how unhinged she is.
Who keeps a dress from an alleged attempted rape for 30 years?
Was the alleged DNA from the dress ever tested?

As for the person testifying about what happened when she was a child: There was a corroborating witness.

As far as I know, this alleged witness is as anonymous as "Katie Johnson" herself. As such, it has no probative value.

Consent is not an issue as she was 13 at the time. There could not have been any consent.

Which is all the more reason to report it right away and get a rape kit done. Filing a lawsuit 20 years hence because the target ote

This is not about popularity or how much I like or don’t like anyone.

Of course it is. Manhattan is ~90% Democratic. Of course convicting on a weak case or getting a huge judgment without evidence against a Republican politician reviled by Democrats is going to be much easier there than in a more politically evenly split county.