The Race For 2024

[Copernicus]

I agree RFK the Lesser would be mere noise were Biden not so damn old and unpopular or if someone more credible had decided to primary him.

Biden is not unpopular among Democrats. They just would prefer that he not run for a second term. Nevertheless, his ego has prevented him from preparing the way for younger candidates to step forward. I think that the situation is similar for Republicans, who hate Democratic politicians more than they hate Trump but would prefer him not to run. Trump is in even worse mental condition than Biden. Unfortunately, neither party has a way of dislodging their gerontococrats, unless they voluntarily relinquish their clawholds on power.

 

[TomC]

Edited to add: if it were Chris Christie as the other option I would be willing to look a little deeper at his record and listen to what he had to say. But everyone else I’ve seen is ridiculous.

You know who else I'd like on that list?
Mitt Romney
Tom

 

[Copernicus]

Edited to add: if it were Chris Christie as the other option I would be willing to look a little deeper at his record and listen to what he had to say. But everyone else I’ve seen is ridiculous.

You know who else I'd like on that list?
Mitt Romney
Tom

Bear in mind that electing either of those men to the presidency would flip the Senate to Republican control, if it were tied 50-50. It would also mean that a Republican presidential veto could block any bill passed by both chambers, even if both chambers of Congress were under Democratic control. If you like the Republican agenda, that's the way to go.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Edited to add: if it were Chris Christie as the other option I would be willing to look a little deeper at his record and listen to what he had to say. But everyone else I’ve seen is ridiculous.

You know who else I'd like on that list?
Mitt Romney
Tom

Bear in mind that electing either of those men to the presidency would flip the Senate to Republican control, if it were tied 50-50. It would also mean that a Republican presidential veto could block any bill passed by both chambers, even if both chambers of Congress were under Democratic control. If you like the Republican agenda, that's the way to go.

Yes, good point, which is why I’d very likely not vote for either of them. But at least they are sane. Until the Republican Party can regain some rationally it is hard to believe I could vote for anyone who associates with that party.

 

[TomC]

Edited to add: if it were Chris Christie as the other option I would be willing to look a little deeper at his record and listen to what he had to say. But everyone else I’ve seen is ridiculous.

You know who else I'd like on that list?
Mitt Romney
Tom

Bear in mind that electing either of those men to the presidency would flip the Senate to Republican control, if it were tied 50-50. It would also mean that a Republican presidential veto could block any bill passed by both chambers, even if both chambers of Congress were under Democratic control. If you like the Republican agenda, that's the way to go.

Bear in mind that I'm a straight ticket Democrat voter. In Indiana.

I'm saying I'd like to see old school Republicans give the Republican voters an option that isn't a TeaParty idiot. Republicans used to have integrity and values and patriotism.
Tom

 

[Ford]

I agree RFK the Lesser would be mere noise were Biden not so damn old and unpopular or if someone more credible had decided to primary him.

Biden is not unpopular among Democrats. They just would prefer that he not run for a second term. Nevertheless, his ego has prevented him from preparing the way for younger candidates to step forward. I think that the situation is similar for Republicans, who hate Democratic politicians more than they hate Trump but would prefer him not to run. Trump is in even worse mental condition than Biden. Unfortunately, neither party has a way of dislodging their gerontococrats, unless they voluntarily relinquish their clawholds on power.

Gerontocrats. I like that.

But I don't think the situations are similar between Democrats and Republicans.

When it comes to Presidential candidates under the age of 70, Democrats don't have much of a "bench," and if Biden keeled over tomorrow or withdrew, Harris would be the nominee for no other reason than "it's her turn." There are a lot of up and coming young(er) Democrats who would be great - I'm still a fan of Buttigieg - but the party's policy of "whomever has waited in line the longest gets the nod" is not helpful.

The GOP? The new generation of "leaders" among that outfit are...how to put this...Q Anon Adjacent. Younger Democrats are like "let's take another look at this socialism thing" while younger Republicans have gone off the Jewish Space Lasers deep end. The current House Majority Leader is beholden to the Cray Cray Caucus, and it shows no sign of swinging the pendulum back to even remotely sane.

 

[laughing dog]

Edited to add: if it were Chris Christie as the other option I would be willing to look a little deeper at his record and listen to what he had to say. But everyone else I’ve seen is ridiculous.

You know who else I'd like on that list?
Mitt Romney
Tom

Bear in mind that electing either of those men to the presidency would flip the Senate to Republican control, if it were tied 50-50. It would also mean that a Republican presidential veto could block any bill passed by both chambers, even if both chambers of Congress were under Democratic control. If you like the Republican agenda, that's the way to go.

Bear in mind that I'm a straight ticket Democrat voter. In Indiana.

I'm saying I'd like to see old school Republicans give the Republican voters an option that isn't a TeaParty idiot. Republicans used to have integrity and values and patriotism.
Tom

My father was a lifelong Republican until Trump. Then he voted straight Democratic ticket in Missouri. I think a fair majority of traditional Republicans (integrity, fiscal prudence, social liberalism and strong national defense) abandonned the GOP over Trump.

 

[Copernicus]

When it comes to Presidential candidates under the age of 70, Democrats don't have much of a "bench," and if Biden keeled over tomorrow or withdrew, Harris would be the nominee for no other reason than "it's her turn." There are a lot of up and coming young(er) Democrats who would be great - I'm still a fan of Buttigieg - but the party's policy of "whomever has waited in line the longest gets the nod" is not helpful.

You make a good point about Democrats not having much of a "bench", but part of the reason for that is the dug-in gerontocracy, who hog the limelight and prevent younger politicians from gaining experience and visibility in higher public office. Incumbency is more of the problem than position in the queue. Obama was certainly a lot younger than many of his rivals, but Clinton was the one with party leadership recognition for being "next in line". The fact that there was no real incumbent to block him was important. And Vice presidents don't always succeed their presidents. Kamala Harris has been a disappointment to those of us who had higher hopes for her, and she hasn't really used her office to build up much of a political base. I will be surprised if she gains the nomination after Biden, although that might change if she is reelected and needs to become president during the second term.

 

[Copernicus]

My father was a lifelong Republican until Trump. Then he voted straight Democratic ticket in Missouri. I think a fair majority of traditional Republicans (integrity, fiscal prudence, social liberalism and strong national defense) abandonned the GOP over Trump.

But I think a lot will return, once Trump is gone. If Trump fails to gain the nomination for 2024, Biden will have a much harder time against whoever runs against him, including even Ron DeSantis. At that point, the age deficit will really hurt Democrats.

 

[TomC]

My father was a lifelong Republican until Trump. Then he voted straight Democratic ticket in Missouri. I think a fair majority of traditional Republicans (integrity, fiscal prudence, social liberalism and strong national defense) abandonned the GOP over Trump.

Party affiliation doesn't mean much these days.
My dad died during the Obama administration. He was an old school, Reagan, Republican.

He'd have hated Trump. He'd have recognized the fake Christian billionaire "poster boy for the 7 deadly sins" for what he is.
Tom

 

[Thomas II]

 

[laughing dog]

My father was a lifelong Republican until Trump. Then he voted straight Democratic ticket in Missouri. I think a fair majority of traditional Republicans (integrity, fiscal prudence, social liberalism and strong national defense) abandonned the GOP over Trump.

But I think a lot will return, once Trump is gone. If Trump fails to gain the nomination for 2024, Biden will have a much harder time against whoever runs against him, including even Ron DeSantis. At that point, the age deficit will really hurt Democrats.

You may be correct. But if my father is any guide, he saw the GOP as venal and corrupt because not only did it embrace Trump but it had lost what he thought were its core values. Making war on Disney would have disgusted my dad. I’m not as sanguine as you about their return, especially if Biden runs again. They may not vote for Biden, but I’m not confident they’d vote for the likes of DeSantis or some of the other GOP hopefuls.

 

[Elixir]

My father was a lifelong Republican until Trump. Then he voted straight Democratic ticket in Missouri. I think a fair majority of traditional Republicans (integrity, fiscal prudence, social liberalism and strong national defense) abandonned the GOP over Trump.

Party affiliation doesn't mean much these days.
My dad died during the Obama administration. He was an old school, Reagan, Republican.

He'd have hated Trump. He'd have recognized the fake Christian billionaire "poster boy for the 7 deadly sins" for what he is.
Tom

Both of my parents were staunch Republicans, ex-Navy conservatives. They’d have despised Trump, and would have seen through his BS in a nanosecond.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

If Joe Biden were to die tomorrow, Kamala Harris might run, but her poll numbers are poor. Suppose her poll numbers dropped to say, 34%. That would open the way to another Democrat to possibly win. We have lots of possibilties. Newsome, Rankin, Whimir, Porter and others. I think America would like somebody smart, relatively young, tough, and fierce. Somebody not named Trump or DeSantis. Abortion, the GOP war on birth control, Social Security, and more. A sane president.

538 report's Kamala Harris has a current approval rating of 38.7%.

 

[Copernicus]

What bothers me about Republicans today is that many of them were people who would have been horrified by Donald Trump before 2016. Once he won the nomination, many of those same people stayed in the GOP and voted for Trump. And they found ways to rationalize their accommodation with Trumpy politics. A lot of that has to do with the huge benefit of having a 24/7 Republican propaganda outlet with Fox News, not to mention social media, as a means of insulating themselves from news that they don't want to hear and reinforcing their biases. So I wouldn't be so confident in predicting how my Republican ancestors would be voting today. It's a very different world, but the people in it came out of that earlier one.

 

[Tigers!]

Somebody not named Trump or DeSantis or Clinton or Bush.

Just to be comprehensive.

 

[scombrid]

That antivax chemtard is more popular among Trumpers than among liberals.

Since COVID you are probably right. But there has been a longstanding antivax movement on the Left, especially among the more new agey.

So he is definitely just noise in the primary.

~20% is a bit more than noise.
I agree RFK the Lesser would be mere noise were Biden not so damn old and unpopular or if someone more credible had decided to primary him.

GOP started courting the anti-establishment conspiracy theorists (911 truthers, birthers, anti vax, chemtrails, UFOs) as soon as Obama was elected. They ramped it up big time after white establishment Romney/Ryan failed in 2012. It was a cynical but wise move. They knew that Republicans would vote Republican no matter what and Democrats would largely do the same. It was also obvious that Democrats were not really entertaining the ideas from those fringy people. Republicans just needed to get that couple of percentage points. So paint the Democrats as deep state NWO and pat the Alex Jones/Tulsi Gabbards on the head while pandering the general sense of loss and unease of the working folks that are being shit on by life and the GOP trickle-down economy. Now you have Tulsi speaking at CPAC. What has floored me is the number of previously sane conservatives that are buying full on into the Alex Jones type stuff and the GOP leadership is doing nothing but encouraging it. Anti-vax, chemtrails, truthers, UFO people... you debunk any of their bullshit and they call you a libtard government shill. The UFO grifters like Elizondo and Corbell are hardcore right wing. So are the "alternative health" people like Joe Marcela and Mike Adams. GOP has welcomed them with open arms and now were have right wing people trading ivermectin on forums as a cancer cure or daily/weekly vitamin/preventative agains all maladies. It is ridiculous and sad.

 

[scombrid]

What bothers me about Republicans today is that many of them were people who would have been horrified by Donald Trump before 2016. Once he won the nomination, many of those same people stayed in the GOP and voted for Trump. And they found ways to rationalize their accommodation with Trumpy politics. A lot of that has to do with the huge benefit of having a 24/7 Republican propaganda outlet with Fox News, not to mention social media, as a means of insulating themselves from news that they don't want to hear and reinforcing their biases. So I wouldn't be so confident in predicting how my Republican ancestors would be voting today. It's a very different world, but the people in it came out of that earlier one.

Yep. My brother's father-in-law is full Trump, baseless conspiracy theories and all. He is a very conservative Catholic family values kind of guy. He is a Vietnam vet, army ranger yet he supports Bone Spurs king of Divorce and Default unconditionally. It goes all the way back the the baseless DHS bullet conspiracy theory. There was a run on guns and ammo when Obama got elected. That caused a shortage and price spike. GOP spread the theory that DHS bought all the bullets and it went on from there; FEMA coffins, Jade Helm, etc...

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

That also explains his recently-expressed love for gas stoves.

Especially gas ovens.
Yikes.

What a strange comment. Could you explain it in more detail?

So, as of now the Republican field is far too full of too many "not Trump" candidates for the "not Trump" vote to unify behind any one of them.

The Democrats are pretending that RFK Jr. isn't running against Biden. Amazingly, Biden is running.

 

[Patooka]

The Democrats are pretending that RFK Jr. isn't running against Biden. Amazingly, Biden is running.

Pretending huh? Interesting choice of words. I'd say dismissing RFK because only a dumb cunt believes RFK represents anything else but Q-Anon ideals.