The Race For 2024

[Cheerful Charlie]

Will Hurd, a Republican from Texas now running for president sounds interesting. Running against the Trump, Freedumb caucus loonies. Finally, an almost sane Republican.

 

[Patooka]

Will Hurd, a Republican from Texas now running for president sounds interesting. Running against the Trump, Freedumb caucus loonies. Finally, an almost sane Republican.

Well, he's fucked then.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

The Democrats are pretending that RFK Jr. isn't running against Biden. Amazingly, Biden is running.

Pretending huh? Interesting choice of words. I'd say dismissing RFK because only a dumb cunt believes RFK represents anything else but Q-Anon ideals.

I thought Q-Anon was a RIGHT WING conspiracy. Whatever "right wing" means. Are you saying RFK is a right-winger? Or part of a "right wing" conspiracy?

I don't know many Democrats who are part of right wing (sic) conspiracies. Especially from the august (sic) Kennedy line.

 

[ZiprHead]

He's being backed by right wing groups including Steve Bannon. How much more right wing do you need?

 

[Copernicus]

The Democrats are pretending that RFK Jr. isn't running against Biden. Amazingly, Biden is running.

Pretending huh? Interesting choice of words. I'd say dismissing RFK because only a dumb cunt believes RFK represents anything else but Q-Anon ideals.

I thought Q-Anon was a RIGHT WING conspiracy. Whatever "right wing" means. Are you saying RFK is a right-winger? Or part of a "right wing" conspiracy?

I don't know many Democrats who are part of right wing (sic) conspiracies. Especially from the august (sic) Kennedy line.

It's not hard to find a connection between right wing MAGA Republicans and RFK Jr. Presumably, you know how to use Google.

Robert Kennedy Jr., With Musk, Pushes Right-Wing Ideas and Misinformation​

For more than two hours, Mr. Kennedy participated in an online audio chat on Twitter with the platform’s increasingly rightward-leaning chief executive, Elon Musk. They engaged in a friendly back-and-forth with the likes of Tulsi Gabbard, the former Democratic congresswoman turned right-wing commentator; a top donor to Gov. Ron DeSantis of Florida; and a professional surfer who became a prominent voice casting doubt on coronavirus vaccines.

Mr. Kennedy, who announced his 2024 presidential campaign in April, is himself a leading vaccine skeptic, and has promoted other conspiracy theories. Yet he has consistently hovered around 20 percent in polling of the Democratic primary, which the party has otherwise ceded to Mr. Biden.

On Monday, he sounded like a candidate far more at ease in the mushrooming Republican presidential contest.

He said he planned to travel to the Mexican border this week to “try to formulate policies that will seal the border permanently,” called for the federal government to consider the war in Ukraine from the perspective of Russians and said pharmaceutical drugs were responsible for the rise of mass shootings in America.

And Let's not forget his super PAC, Heal the Divide:

RFK Jr. Backed by Group Connected to Top MAGA Republicans​

 

[Patooka]

I thought Q-Anon was a RIGHT WING conspiracy. Whatever "right wing" means. Are you saying RFK is a right-winger? Or part of a "right wing" conspiracy?

Yes. Very much so. It's adorable that you are confused with the phrase "right winger" but still insist libertarian has a very narrow, very specific definition that you and you alone know.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Just because someone is running on the Democratic ticket doesn't mean they are a liberal. Nor similarly does someone running on a Republican ticket mean they are a conservative (e.g., Trump). Actually *party* ideals don't seem to be at play anymore.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

The Democrats are pretending that RFK Jr. isn't running against Biden. Amazingly, Biden is running.

Pretending huh? Interesting choice of words. I'd say dismissing RFK because only a dumb cunt believes RFK represents anything else but Q-Anon ideals.

I thought Q-Anon was a RIGHT WING conspiracy.

It generally was. However, there was no actual warranty saying it has to be 100% alt-right. We saw an odd convergence between far left-wingers and alt-right wingers during the pandemic with their shared disillusion with vaccines.

Whatever "right wing" means. Are you saying RFK is a right-winger? Or part of a "right wing" conspiracy?

Or they meant that RFK Jr is spouting nonsense. Democrats can spout nonsense. There is nothing in being a Democrat that means one becomes immune to stupidity.

Also, are you in some way denying that QAnon was generally a bunch of far right-wing folks?

Jason always seems to have problems when liberals or Democrats can speak poorly about liberals or Democrats. He seems to be surprised that the brand is less important than the message.

 

[Elixir]

He seems to be surprised that the brand is less important than the message.

Isn’t that part and parcel of the libberpublican ideology? Messages can be shown to be “wrong”. Brands - not so much. If anything unsavory arises, you can just declare “that’s not my brand”, and preserve your smug feeling of superiority.

 

[blastula]

RFKJ is a conspiracist who overlaps with both left and right. He overlaps Qanon but I wouldn't call him a member until I hear him say that JFK Jr is alive and will be Trump's vice president

His only real chance of winning the nomination is to get them to change the rules to a weightlifting competition.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

He seems to be surprised that the brand is less important than the message.

Isn’t that part and parcel of the libberpublican ideology? Messages can be shown to be “wrong”. Brands - not so much. If anything unsavory arises, you can just declare “that’s not my brand”, and preserve your smug feeling of superiority.

Hey Elixir, you over looked this.

That also explains his recently-expressed love for gas stoves.

Especially gas ovens.
Yikes.

What a strange comment. Could you explain it in more detail?

Yes, could you explain that in more detail? Inquiring minds want to know.

I get it, your refusal to answer will be yet more evidence about how I don't answer questions.

 

[lpetrich]

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. drops out of Moms for Liberty Philly summit - "Kennedy's campaign said his schedule changed, according to Moms for Liberty."

Speaking at a big event of a hard-line right-wing organization? That's a red flag right there.

RFK Jr. Super PAC Has Ties to Marjorie Taylor Greene, George Santos – Rolling Stone - "The Super PAC is just one example of the nominally Democratic candidate running a campaign that's awash in support from backers of Donald Trump"

Last month, supporters of Robert F. Kennedy Jr.’s presidential bid created a Super PAC titled Heal the Divide. On its website, the group — whose name is borrowed from Kennedy’s own campaign slogan — advises voters that “Only Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. can unite the Nation to start healing America,” and allows visitors to donate both in dollars and cryptocurrency.

There’s nothing abnormal about a candidate getting a Super PAC, even a candidate making a long-shot bid like Kennedy’s. What is abnormal, however, is that Kennedy is running as a Democrat in the Democratic primary, while the creators of the Super PAC have a deeply pro-Donald Trump bent — including ties to arch-MAGA officials such as Marjorie Taylor Greene, George Santos, and Herschel Walker.

Federal Election Commission filings list Jason D. Boles of RTA Strategy as its treasurer and use RTA’s website and mailing address.

Vendor/Recipient Profile: Rta Strategy • OpenSecrets
Save America Stop Socialism PAC -- MTG's campaign & leadership PAC -- and Marjorie Greene for Congress -- paid RTA over $372,000 in 2022.

 

[lpetrich]

Heal the Divide's site contains a giveaway mistake. "The site’s terms of service appear to have been copied and pasted from MAGA PAC, a Trump Super PAC, and incorrectly refers to the Heal the Divide site as MAGApac.com."

Also, "His bid is awash in support from Donald Trump’s allies in MAGA World, conservative media, and some of the Republican-donor elite."

Eric Hananoki on Twitter: "Trump adviser Roger Stone ..." / Twitter

Trump adviser Roger Stone (link) yesterday praised Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s run for president: "I'm a great admirer of Robert Kennedy. He's a friend of mine." (1/2)

Roger Stone also said of Robert F. Kennedy Jr.'s presidential run: "If I had any money, I'd send him a contribution ... I think it will help in the end soften Joe Biden up for his defeat by Donald Trump." (2/2)

A comprehensive guide to Trump ally Roger Stone, who was convicted of seven felonies | Media Matters for America - "Stone has a history of dirty tricks, violent rhetoric, racist taunts, sexist screeds, fringe conspiracy theories, and discredited research"

Supporting RFK Jr. to soften Joe Biden up? That seems very in character for someone with a history of dirty tricks.

Anti-vaxxer Robert F. Kennedy Jr. challenging Biden for presidency in 2024 - CBS News

Former Trump adviser Steve Bannon had been encouraging Kennedy to run for months, believing he could be both a useful chaos agent in the 2024 race and a big name who could help stoke anti-vaccine sentiment around the country, sources familiar with the matter told CBS News' Robert Costa.

 

[lpetrich]

Back to Rolling Stone.

At Fox News, three staffers and a producer tell Rolling Stone that some higher-ups have privately discussed how much they value not just interviewing Kennedy on the network, but featuring segment after segment about his candidacy and his unexpected poll numbers in the 2024 Democratic field. “Management loves RFK [Jr.] coverage because it makes Biden look weak. You can expect a lot of it,” the Fox producer says.

Before Tucker Carlson was fired by Fox in April, the network’s then-top host would promote Kennedy and argue that the candidate somehow wasn’t an extremist. “So, at this point, the question isn’t who in public life is corrupt? Too many to count. The question is, who is telling the truth? There are not many of those. One of them is Robert F. Kennedy Jr.,” Carlson said on Fox earlier this year.

In the time since, other hosts have praised or interviewed Kennedy, though some not quite as sympathetically as Carlson once did.

Let's see: Roger Stone, Steve Bannon, Tucker Carlson, a PAC with connections to MTG, George Santos, & Herschel Walker.

Meanwhile, Trump and some of his senior aides have delighted in Kennedy’s presence in the 2024 race, viewing him as a useful anti-Biden agent of chaos, according to three sources on and close to the Trump campaign. The ex-president and 2024 GOP front-runner briefly praised Kennedy during this month’s interview with Fox News’ Bret Baier, while getting his name wrong, calling Kennedy “very nice” and a “very, very fine person” who Trump knows “very well.”

Members of Trump’s team are also pushing the message that Kennedy’s candidacy is a sign of Biden’s weakness. ...

Wealthy right-wing donors and activist groups have also pitched in to support and amplify the long-shot presidential campaign.

Like David Sacks, donor to Ron DeSantis's campaign for FL Gov.

 

[lpetrich]

Kennedy’s claim that he’s running to defeat Trump contrasts with his stance when the 45th president was first heading to the White House. During the Obama-Trump presidential transition in January 2017, Kennedy visited the then-president-elect at Trump Tower in Manhattan — for a job interview.

According to a former senior Trump transition official, Kennedy “wanted to have some kind of role in vaccine research and the questions he raised about the safety of the vaccines,” ...

So he's JAQing off about vaccines: Just Asking Questions.

But this senior role on "vaccine safety" never happened. Some Trump advisers considered him too troublesome for such a position.

Prior to the Covid-19 pandemic, Kennedy’s political ecosystem often tilted to the fringes of the left, capitalizing on liberal skepticism of large pharmaceutical companies. But as Trump pushed Covid-19 myths and attacked public-health experts in 2020, the far-right swelled the ranks of anti-vaccine conspiracy theorists and offered Kennedy a new audience.

In particular, Kennedy has courted Ty and Charlene Bollinger, two pro-Trump political activists who held a rally outside the Capitol on Jan. 6 to promote Trump’s lies about a stolen election.

They are also big anti-vaxxers.

Seems like horseshoe politics.

 

[lpetrich]

Democratic

• March 4, 2023 - Marianne Williamson - 70
• April 19, 2023 - RFK Jr. - 69
• April 25, 2023 - Joe Biden - 80

Republican

• November 15, 2022 - Donald Trump FL - 77
• February 14, 2023 - Nikki Haley SC - 51
• February 21, 2023 - Vivek Ramaswamy OH - 37
• March 2, 2023 - Perry Johnson MI - 75
• April 6, 2023 - Gov. Asa Hutchinson AR - 72
• May 1, 2023 - Larry Elder CA - 71
• May 19, 2023 - Sen. Tim Scott SC - 57
• May 24, 2023 - Gov. Ron DeSantis FL - 44
• June 5, 2023 - Mike Pence IN - 64
• June 6, 2023 - Chris Christie NJ - 60
• June 7, 2023 - Doug Burgum ND - 66
• June 14, 2023 - Francis Suarez FL - 45
• June 22, 2023 - Will Hurd TX - 45

Green

• June 14, 2023 - Cornel West CA - 70

Jill Stein enlisted to help build Cornel West's third-party presidential campaign | CNN Politics

Explaining his decision to break from the People’s Party last week on the “The Katie Halper Show,” West pointed to the Green Party’s “broader and deeper” infrastructure and know-how when it comes to ballot access.

“Any candidacy to run the empire, in order to dismantle the empire, has to be part of a movement,” West said.

Cornel West seems to be a babe in the woods about political campaigning - he's good with ideas, not so good about the nitty-gritty of campaigning. He ought to run as a Democrat, so he won't be a spoiler.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Republicans:

Doug Burgum - poor name recognition. Doesn't have any noted foreign policy positions.
Chris Christie - Is Chris Christie, nuff said.
Ron DeSantis - most popular non-Trump, trying to get all of Trump's populism without being Trump. Elixir says that DeSantis is obsessed with gas ovens but refuses to elaborate, leaving everyone confused.
Larry Elder - his only experience is a radio talk show and a failed run for governor. On the plus side he has minority status working in his favor. I don't like his stand on LGBT. Hard to get a clear reading of his foreign policy.
Nikki Haley - has experience in her favor and minority status in her favor. Her foreign policy is sufficiently hawkish for her to get support here and get my opposition.
Will Hurd - poor name recognition, only experience is three terms in congress. Has minority status working in his favor. Awful foreign policy, reminds me of Bush and Obama.
Asa Hutchinson - last time a Governor of Arkansas was elected it was a disaster. Lots of experience. Too pro-life and anti-lgbt for me. On the plus side he resisted Covid-mania. DEA and DHS experience make me see him as a bad choice.
Perry Johnson - Who? Seriously, who? He's a businessman and had a failed run for governor. Also trying to be "Trump minus the baggage".
Mike Pence - his past association with Trump won't hurt him, as he has come out as anti-Trump. Very mainstream, gets along with the establishment very well. Could do a good job being the temporary "this is an example of how awful Republicans are" for a few months until losing and going back to being a good Republican like Romney and McCain. Same-old same-old. The populists hate him.
Vivek Ramaswamy - he was entertaining for a while, but he lost all entertainment value when he advocated sending the US military into Mexico to fight the cartels. No electoral experience, but has minority status working in his favor. His views on presidential power are awful.
Tim Scott - not that well known outside of his state where he is a senator. His minority status works in his favor. His 106 page Justice Act is surprisingly good. It failed because Democrats said it didn't go far enough. Foreign policy could be better.
Francis Suarez - the Mayor of Miami, is trying to do what DeSantis is doing. Has minority status in his favor. I don't think his run will endear him to Trump or DeSantis, whichever one comes out on top.
Donald Trump - has the anti-establishment populist vote. He has too many opponents for them to unify and create an effective challenge. Seen as an incumbent of sorts. Inconsistent on foreign policy.

My take: there are too many non-Trumps. There are too many "I'm like Trump without the baggage" for those who liked Trump but are weary of him to unify behind. There are too many "I'm completely unlike Trump, I'm a real Republican" for the never-Trumpers to unify behind. Without extraordinary action Trump's nomination is mathematically certain.

Democrats:

Joe Biden - the reason it would be unfair to accuse him of a life of criminal corruption is because he doesn't remember any of it. Overly fond of kids.
Robert F. Kennedy Jr - secretly a Q-anon Republican plant in the Democratic Party Primary, you heard it here first on IIDB. Has the name "Kennedy" and Democrats will do insane things in support of that name. Is asking questions that Democrats don't want him to ask.
Marianne Williamson - no elective office experience. Not really sure of her positions other than she appears to have a fluffy new-age kind of demeanor.

My take: the dementia-riddled pedophile racist is going to be the Democrat nominee.

 

[Copernicus]

My take: there are too many non-Trumps. There are too many "I'm like Trump without the baggage" for those who liked Trump but are weary of him to unify behind. There are too many "I'm completely unlike Trump, I'm a real Republican" for the never-Trumpers to unify behind. Without extraordinary action Trump's nomination is mathematically certain.

My take: the dementia-riddled pedophile racist is going to be the Democrat nominee.

My prediction that you would describe Biden in an exceptionally nasty and biased way, but Trump in a neutral way, turned out to be true!

 

[lpetrich]

Mike Pence income: Book deal, speeches earn 2024 presidential candidate millions | CNN Politics

He got a $1.4 million advance on his memoir, “So Help Me God” , "which recounted the events of January 6, 2021, and his refusal to buckle to Donald Trump’s demands to overturn the 2020 election results".

He also collected $3.4 million for 32 speeches from January 2022 to the end of April of this year.

The most lucrative engagement: A $550,000 honorarium for a February 2022 appearance at a world summit underwritten by the Universal Peace Federation in Seoul, South Korea. The group was established by the late Rev. Sun Myung Moon – the Korean evangelist and businessman who founded the Unification Church – and his wife, Hak Ja Han.

According to the online transcript of his Seoul speech, Pence called for the de-nuclearization of the Korean peninsula and pledged American support for South Korea, Japan and “all of our allies for peace and security across the free world.” He also praised The Washington Times, a conservative newspaper established by Moon, as a “courageous voice for freedom in America.”

He also got six figures for a speech at a meeting of the American Fuel and Petroleum Manufacturers trade group.

Sun Myung Moon was long a supporter of right-wing causes, and after his death in 2012, his successors have continued that support. He founded his Unification Church, an organization with a reputation for autocratic cultishness. He believed in what may be called an eccentric version of Xianity, where he wanted to succeed where Jesus Christ had failed, in making his followers a perfect family.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

My take: there are too many non-Trumps. There are too many "I'm like Trump without the baggage" for those who liked Trump but are weary of him to unify behind. There are too many "I'm completely unlike Trump, I'm a real Republican" for the never-Trumpers to unify behind. Without extraordinary action Trump's nomination is mathematically certain.

My take: the dementia-riddled pedophile racist is going to be the Democrat nominee.

My prediction that you would describe Biden in an exceptionally nasty and biased way, but Trump in a neutral way, turned out to be true!

Where did you predict that?

You make it sound like opposing racist pedophiles is a bad thing.