The Second Debate Thread

[ZiprHead]

Trump wanted to put Bill Clinton’s accusers in his family box. Debate officials said no.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/10/10/trumps-debate-plan-to-seat-bill-clintons-accusers-in-family-box-was-thwarted/

 

[braces_for_impact]

Donald had the stink of Breitbart all over him.

Exactly. Even the events he brings up that have many people scratching their head wondering where he got it. It's easy. Cruise on over to Breitbart.com, take a look at Pepe the frog and all of Donnie's latest talking points.

It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that he believes almost anything that feels right to him without so much as a critical thought in his orange head.

 

[Rhea]

I'm surprised that the morning pundits aren't making a bigger fuss about Trump threatening to put his opponent in prison. That's very disturbing. It's dictator talk. Naturally all the Trump lackeys are praising Trump for his performance in the debate. Gasp. That idiot Pence is on MSNBC right now saying how proud he is of Trump. Gag. Gag. Gag.

It is surprising.

Trump is basically saying he will be using his power to go after his political rivals.

In the open. Without shame.

And the corporate media doesn't seem to comprehend the significance.

Could it be that corporate leaders like the practice? Could it be because they are tiny little fascists commanding their small but powerful dictatorships?

I've seen quite a bit of print on that today. Maybe I don't read the mainstream stuff, though.

 

[untermensche]

It is surprising.

Trump is basically saying he will be using his power to go after his political rivals.

In the open. Without shame.

And the corporate media doesn't seem to comprehend the significance.

Could it be that corporate leaders like the practice? Could it be because they are tiny little fascists commanding their small but powerful dictatorships?

I've seen quite a bit of print on that today. Maybe I don't read the mainstream stuff, though.

Krugman talks about it at the Times, but that is about all the outrage you will find there.

The big story at the Times is that after Trump's performance he isn't going anywhere.

It's as if they watched but did not listen.

 

[barbos]

Hate to say it, but I totally agree with what Trump is *saying* regarding Syria and Russia. No reason for us to be arming "rebels" and toppling Assad is crazy. Indeed, it would have been in our interest to just let the Russians absorb all the blowback, but instead all the Cold Warrior era people making our policy can't let that happen.

As much as I've been let down by Obama in a lot of ways, I'm glad I voted for him. In my eyes, there could be no better endorsement of his decisions than that letter of dissent from 51 state-department members.

Yeah, Trump is accidentally right. I cringed when she called Russia aggressor in that mess. The whole mess started with US arming and supporting so called opposition or rebels, some of which were outfits of Al Qaeda, that's what is called aggression. You don't like Assad regime, I get it, but going around and toppling regimes you don't like is what I call aggression. Yes, Aleppo is a mess and US is responsible, not Russia or even Assad.

Besides totally disagreeing with rabid russophobia Hillary displays I think she handled herself rather well, especially Trump groping-gate.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

My take on the debate and on the race generally is that politics has become another reality show where anything goes. It's fake and real at the same time but entertaining so that people buy in. Trump is the clown at ground zero. I'm sure he's making plans for his money-making next reality show, not how to deal with the middle east or job creation or environmental issues.

And yes, he is extremely dictatorial, having no grasp of the American legislative or judicial system, which is why he loves Putin.

I'm beyond trying to make anything good out of these events. I get my jollies observing and appreciating the senseless behavior and thinking about how bizarre it all is, and that so many people take it seriously, never realizing they could do better.

Human brains are fascinating.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Of the remaining "undecideds", do you think Donald made any headway? I don't. He's toast. For the still undecided, they will use the "Precipice Rule". They will seek safety.

He made no headway with anyone other then the base. However, the base seems to have loved his performance - I don't know why. If they're still with him, it's tough for the leadership to dump him. That means he keeps dragging them down and they gave to wring their hands in shock and dismay again later this week when the next bombshell drops.

Also, good job by Trump in essentially daring the media to dig up his sex scandals. The last guy who did that was Gary Hart. Remember how that turned out?

 

[JonA]

These two clowns are well matched for this circus.

The only person either could ever stand a chance winning against is the other.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

These two clowns are well matched for this circus.

The only person either could ever stand a chance winning against is the other.

Why do some Trump supporters talk like this? They don't seem to understand that we deal with more of them than just one, so their passive aggressive, 'they are both bums' is nothing but a smokescreen?

- - - Updated - - -

My take on the debate and on the race generally is that politics has become another reality show where anything goes. It's fake and real at the same time but entertaining so that people buy in. Trump is the clown at ground zero. I'm sure he's making plans for his money-making next reality show, not how to deal with the middle east or job creation or environmental issues.

And yes, he is extremely dictatorial, having no grasp of the American legislative or judicial system, which is why he loves Putin.

This was another score by Clinton, when she explained that she was a Senator under a Republican President (and often a Republican led Senate) which is why she didn't change America's tax code unilaterally.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Hate to say it, but I totally agree with what Trump is *saying* regarding Syria and Russia.

Except Russia is fighting the rebels more than ISIS.

 

[barbos]

Hate to say it, but I totally agree with what Trump is *saying* regarding Syria and Russia.

Except Russia is fighting the rebels more than ISIS.

That's what's get repeated in western propaganda all the time, which to some extent is true. But this is deceptive and accidental, because Russia is there to keep Assad regime alive and ISIS just happened to be smaller problem militarily for Assad at this time. Real pain in Assad's ass is these rebels, they actually hold all strategic places. Having said that, Russia is interested in killing ISIS members too, primarily because a lot of them come from Russia and they better die in Syria than return to Russia. Russian "propaganda" meanwhile accuse US in not fighting Al Qaeda, suspicion is, they want to keep them to eventually topple Assad which is insane to say the least. Putin believes that without Assad at least for now there will be no hope for Syria.

 

[barbos]

Speaking of this Putin-Trump love story. I saw recently an interview of a russian-american retired millitary dude and he is anti-putin but admitted that he is voting for Trump. His logic was that Putin actually wants Hillary to win but knowing how anti-russian american public is he pretends to like Trump in order to help Hillary.
Anyway, I have a hope that Hillary is just pondering to largely russophobic american public to win. I don't think she actually believes the bulshit she is spreading about Russia. It's not a big hope but it's there.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Except Russia is fighting the rebels more than ISIS.

That's what's get repeated in western propaganda all the time, which to some extent is true.

You can't blame Western propaganda and then say it is true.

But this is deceptive and accidental, because Russia is there to keep Assad regime alive and ISIS just happened to be smaller problem militarily for Assad at this time.

Yeah, Russia wants a Russia friendly Syria regime so they can keep their warm water port access. I understand and appreciate that. Russia will not bend on Syria. Assad will step down and be replaced by someone Assad friendly in 5 or so years and Russia will keep what they have had access to.

Having said that, Russia is interested in killing ISIS members too, primarily because a lot of them come from Russia and they better die in Syria than return to Russia. Russian "propaganda" meanwhile accuse US in not fighting Al Qaeda, suspicion is, they want to keep them to eventually topple Assad which is insane to say the least. Putin believes that without Assad at least for now there will be no hope for Syria.

There is no hope for Syria. It is this generation's Lebanon.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Speaking of this Putin-Trump love story. I saw recently an interview of a russian-american retired millitary dude and he is anti-putin but admitted that he is voting for Trump. His logic was that Putin actually wants Hillary to win but knowing how anti-russian american public is he pretends to like Trump in order to help Hillary.
Anyway, I have a hope that Hillary is just pondering to largely russophobic american public to win. I don't think she actually believes the bulshit she is spreading about Russia. It's not a big hope but it's there.

Putin wants Trump in. Putin knows how weak and stupid the guy is. Putin is way too clever to want Clinton in because he knows there will be resistance. Trump said Russia didn't even enter Ukraine, despite annexing Crimea. Putin is licking his lips with the remainder of Ukraine with a Trump Presidency, but ultimately, this may just be an attempt to weaken a Clinton Presidency and offer fuel to the fire for the Republican obstructionism, much like the 9/11 Commission Report noted was partially the reason for Bill Clinton not getting bin Laden in the 90s.

 

[ZiprHead]

Like I said, "The stink of Breitbart..."

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Like I said, "The stink of Breitbart..."

Trump debate performance and "art", not really two things that intersect in anything but the alt-right world.

 

[barbos]

That's what's get repeated in western propaganda all the time, which to some extent is true.

You can't blame Western propaganda and then say it is true.

I can when it's merely technically true.

But this is deceptive and accidental, because Russia is there to keep Assad regime alive and ISIS just happened to be smaller problem militarily for Assad at this time.

Yeah, Russia wants a Russia friendly Syria regime so they can keep their warm water port access. I understand and appreciate that. Russia will not bend on Syria. Assad will step down and be replaced by someone Assad friendly in 5 or so years and Russia will keep what they have had access to.

You can't blame Russia for something US is guilty more often. US have a shitload of even worse than Assad friends which provide US with warm water ports.

Having said that, Russia is interested in killing ISIS members too, primarily because a lot of them come from Russia and they better die in Syria than return to Russia. Russian "propaganda" meanwhile accuse US in not fighting Al Qaeda, suspicion is, they want to keep them to eventually topple Assad which is insane to say the least. Putin believes that without Assad at least for now there will be no hope for Syria.

There is no hope for Syria. It is this generation's Lebanon.

It depends, parts of the Syria which managed to stay under government control have been surprisingly OK.

 

[Derec]

Why do some Trump supporters talk like this? They don't seem to understand that we deal with more of them than just one, so their passive aggressive, 'they are both bums' is nothing but a smokescreen?

If somebody is calling both of them "clowns" then he is as little a Trump supporter as he is a Hillary supporter.
And JonA said it because it was true. Hillary would have no chance against anybody else than Trump. Even somebody like Cruz would cruise past her in the polls.

This was another score by Clinton, when she explained that she was a Senator under a Republican President (and often a Republican led Senate) which is why she didn't change America's tax code unilaterally.

Did she even try? Did she introduce any tax legislation that would remove tax breaks that she blames Trump for taking advantage of?
The point is, she did not have much to say about these tax breaks until it became politically expedient to use it as a battering ram. Story of her life.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You can't blame Western propaganda and then say it is true.

I can when it's merely technically true.

But this is deceptive and accidental, because Russia is there to keep Assad regime alive and ISIS just happened to be smaller problem militarily for Assad at this time.

Yeah, Russia wants a Russia friendly Syria regime so they can keep their warm water port access. I understand and appreciate that. Russia will not bend on Syria. Assad will step down and be replaced by someone Assad friendly in 5 or so years and Russia will keep what they have had access to.

You can't blame Russia for something US is guilty more often. US have a shitload of even worse than Assad friends which provide US with warm water ports.

Where did I blame anyone for anything in those statements?

Having said that, Russia is interested in killing ISIS members too, primarily because a lot of them come from Russia and they better die in Syria than return to Russia. Russian "propaganda" meanwhile accuse US in not fighting Al Qaeda, suspicion is, they want to keep them to eventually topple Assad which is insane to say the least. Putin believes that without Assad at least for now there will be no hope for Syria.

There is no hope for Syria. It is this generation's Lebanon.

It depends, parts of the Syria which managed to stay under government control have been surprisingly OK.

The nation's largest city has been under siege for how long?

 

[barbos]

Speaking of this Putin-Trump love story. I saw recently an interview of a russian-american retired millitary dude and he is anti-putin but admitted that he is voting for Trump. His logic was that Putin actually wants Hillary to win but knowing how anti-russian american public is he pretends to like Trump in order to help Hillary.
Anyway, I have a hope that Hillary is just pondering to largely russophobic american public to win. I don't think she actually believes the bulshit she is spreading about Russia. It's not a big hope but it's there.

Putin wants Trump in. Putin knows how weak and stupid the guy is. Putin is way too clever to want Clinton in because he knows there will be resistance. Trump said Russia didn't even enter Ukraine, despite annexing Crimea. Putin is licking his lips with the remainder of Ukraine with a Trump Presidency, but ultimately, this may just be an attempt to weaken a Clinton Presidency and offer fuel to the fire for the Republican obstructionism, much like the 9/11 Commission Report noted was partially the reason for Bill Clinton not getting bin Laden in the 90s.

I think I know better than western propaganda what Putin wants. Despite what you are told Putin does not want the reminder of Ukraine, and he is not dumb enough to hope for Trump becoming a president. He knows and have known for a while that Hillary is the one. He does not like her, that's true. Putin and his foreign affairs advisers are generally much smarter than US state department.