• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

The World-O-Meter Thread

How did the President of China do a good job?

[removed] Can't tell the difference between 3 and 158?
Or did you think bigly has to be bigly better than tiny?
I have better things to do than to try to teach kindergarten math [removed].
Check S. Korea if you think those Chinee are too clever.


Read this or get someone to read it to you,
then whine some more about Sleepy Joe..

You really believe that?

I don't have to believe it. Examples abound and it's not just China. A straw stuffed scarecrow would be better manager of the situation than the idiot we're stuck with. Look at New Zealand. Their leader is 10 times more of a leader than the orange crime boss will ever be. And she has produced a 40x better result.
Time to start whining about something else, halfie - you cannot use facts to argue that Trump is anything but incompetent.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Back over 2k US deaths today. Critical cases continue to slowly notch up. Case numbers are dubious at best; we still don't know if the mortality rate is 0.5% or 8%.

View attachment 27336

Does it really matter whether your country should expect another four hundred times as many deaths, or "only" another thirty? Either would be an epic disaster. Even the lower figure - 0.5% fatality rate - implies nearly four times as many dead Americans as WWII.
 
I decided to look at the international access of some of the nations that have handled this virus well. I'll look at both international airports and water distance.

New Zealand:
International Airports:
  • Long Distance: Auckland, Christchurch
  • Limited: Dunedin, Queenstown, Wellington
Distance: Auckland - Sydney AU: 2400 km / 1500 mi

Taiwan:
International Airports: Taiwan Taoyuan, Kaohsiung, Taipei Songshan, Taichung, Tainan, Hualien
Distance: NW of Taipei - Fuzhou CN: 240 km / 150 mi

South Korea:
International Airports: Incheon, Gimpo, Yangyang, Jeju, Muan, Daeju, Cheongju, Gimhae
Distance:
  • Incheon - Yantai CN: 470 km / 290 mi
  • Busan - Fukuoka JP: 210 km / 130 mi

For ferry speeds, I used  MS Norröna, a ferry that runs Hirtshals, Denmark - Tórshavn, Faroe Islands - Seyðisfjörður, Iceland. Its speed is 21 knots / 39 km/h / 24 mph. I found that an English-Channel ferry has a similar speed, so I'll use that as the top speed of an oceanic ferry.

That gives: SK - CN 12 hr, SK - JP 5 hr, TW - CN 6 hr, NZ - AU 60 hr (2 1/2 d) - so I doubt that surface travel is very common. Even if there were regularly scheduled ferries on any of these routes, they would be convenient chokepoints.
 
Does it really matter whether your country should expect another four hundred times as many deaths, or "only" another thirty?

IMHO, yes it does. 20,000,000 bodies are a lot hard to dispose of safely than 1,500,000 will be.

Either would be an epic disaster. Even the lower figure - 0.5% fatality rate - implies nearly four times as many dead Americans as WWII.

Count on it. It's only a matter of how long it takes and whether the count per cause gets twisted for political purposes.
It's already pretty bizarre - check this out. NYC is already giving us the daily death totals for August 3, 2020:

NYC19.JPG
 
Sunday reporting so, grain of salt etc. But it's the third downtick day in a row and the lowest daily death total since March 31 so I'm going to cling to that fleeting bit of optimism.

WM04-26.JPG
 
Sunday reporting so, grain of salt etc. But it's the third downtick day in a row and the lowest daily death total since March 31 so I'm going to cling to that fleeting bit of optimism.

View attachment 27356

How can there be so many new cases every day if people are quarantined?

How can total cases still be over 900,000? Are they still counting the people who had it in March and recovered? That should be removed from the total cases!

Who's fudging the data?
 
Sunday reporting so, grain of salt etc. But it's the third downtick day in a row and the lowest daily death total since March 31 so I'm going to cling to that fleeting bit of optimism.

View attachment 27356

How can there be so many new cases every day if people are quarantined?

How can total cases still be over 900,000? Are they still counting the people who had it in March and recovered? That should be removed from the total cases!

No, as per the definition of total cases, they need to be counted. They should be, and are, removed from "active cases", which is its own column with "only" 800k cases in the USA.
 
Sunday reporting so, grain of salt etc. But it's the third downtick day in a row and the lowest daily death total since March 31 so I'm going to cling to that fleeting bit of optimism.

View attachment 27356

How can there be so many new cases every day if people are quarantined?
The quarantine isn't perfect; Not all infected and infectious people have symptoms; Not everyone is getting tested. So lots of people are still getting infected each day. And symptoms lag exposure, so people whose illness becomes apparent today are likely to have contracted the disease a couple of weeks ago.

People getting infected today won't show up in the figures for two or three weeks.
How can total cases still be over 900,000? Are they still counting the people who had it in March and recovered?
Yes, because those people were cases.
That should be removed from the total cases!
No, it should be (and is) removed from the ACTIVE cases.
Who's fudging the data?
Nobody. You just don't understand what it says.

Total Cases = Active Cases + Total Recovered + Total Deaths.

Active Cases is the number of people who are currently known to have the disease. Total Cases is the number of people who have EVER had the disease.

Being outraged at data simply because you misunderstand it is truly stupid.
 
The quarantine isn't perfect; Not all infected and infectious people have symptoms; Not everyone is getting tested. So lots of people are still getting infected each day. And symptoms lag exposure, so people whose illness becomes apparent today are likely to have contracted the disease a couple of weeks ago.

People getting infected today won't show up in the figures for two or three weeks.
How can total cases still be over 900,000? Are they still counting the people who had it in March and recovered?
Yes, because those people were cases.
That should be removed from the total cases!
No, it should be (and is) removed from the ACTIVE cases.
Who's fudging the data?
Nobody. You just don't understand what it says.

Total Cases = Active Cases + Total Recovered + Total Deaths.

Active Cases is the number of people who are currently known to have the disease. Total Cases is the number of people who have EVER had the disease.

Being outraged at data simply because you misunderstand it is truly stupid.

To be fair, extrapolating data from a chart has always been Half-life's kryptonite.
 
I'll now do Australia.

Its international airports: Canberra, Newcastle, Sydney, Darwin, Brisbane, Cairns, Townsville, Adelaide, Hobart, Geelong, Melbourne, Broome, Perth, Port Hedland

Not as easily choked off as NZ or Taiwan or SK.

The NYT page: Coronavirus Map: Tracking the Global Outbreak - The New York Times

New Zealand is down from a peak of Apr 9: 929 to Apr 26: 309.

Coronavirus: New Zealand claims no community cases as lockdown eases - BBC News
With new cases in single figures for several days - one on Sunday - Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said the virus was "currently" eliminated.

But officials have warned against complacency, saying it does not mean a total end to new coronavirus cases.

The news comes hours before New Zealand moves out of its toughest level of social restrictions.

From Tuesday, some non-essential business, healthcare and education activity will be able to resume.

Most people will still be required to remain at home at all times and avoid all social interactions.

Praised For Curbing COVID-19, New Zealand's Leader Eases Country's Strict Lockdown : Coronavirus Live Updates : NPR
A mother of a 21-month-old, Ardern, 39, regularly appears on Facebook Live chats, dressed in a sweatshirt, commiserating with families enduring isolation in their "bubble," as she calls their place of shelter, and assuring children the tooth fairy is still on the job. When she imposed stringent stay-home rules in late March, she urged people to "be strong and be kind."

...
Some people might write off her cozy chat style "as soft or fluffy," he says. "But it reassures people. It helps maintain a sense of mutuality in society ... and that creates trust with the leader."

Daily news conferences with the progressive leftist are shorn of political partisanship and focus on data and science. They are, says Jackson, a former Pentagon official during the Obama administration, a contrast to President Trump's combative briefings.

...
Jackson says "social solidarity" has been the lesson from New Zealand: "If we're all in this together, then we're actually going to get through it better and faster." Jackson notes "collectivist societies" are faring better and more efficiently "than fractured, individualist societies."

...
Food delivery and drive-through restaurants are reopening, expanding options for New Zealanders, who are advised to remain close to and work from home. Auckland University of Technology professor Waring says, "Level 3 is Level 4, with takeout."

Nonetheless, New Zealand eases restrictions on swimming, surfing and fishing with some trepidation.
COVID-19 Alert Levels Detailed

What Happens When Women Stop Leading Like Men | Occupy.com - nice article on PM Jacinda Ardern
 
Number of active cases:

Taiwan: peak at Apr 6: 311, down to Apr 26: 142

South Korea: peak at Mar 11: 7362, down to Apr 26: 1769

Australia: peak at Apr 4: 4936, down to Apr 26: 1073

Australia considers opening up its borders to New Zealand | Daily Mail Online
  • The Australian Government is considering opening its borders to New Zealand
  • Peter Dutton said an arrangement with New Zealand is a logical first step
  • It's not known when our borders will open to other countries like the U.S or U.K
  • Scott Morrison and Jacinda Ardern discussed the possibility last week
The two nations' Prime Ministers
 
I'll now do Australia.

Its international airports: Canberra, Newcastle, Sydney, Darwin, Brisbane, Cairns, Townsville, Adelaide, Hobart, Geelong, Melbourne, Broome, Perth, Port Hedland

Not as easily choked off as NZ or Taiwan or SK.

The NYT page: Coronavirus Map: Tracking the Global Outbreak - The New York Times

New Zealand is down from a peak of Apr 9: 929 to Apr 26: 309.

Coronavirus: New Zealand claims no community cases as lockdown eases - BBC News
With new cases in single figures for several days - one on Sunday - Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said the virus was "currently" eliminated.

But officials have warned against complacency, saying it does not mean a total end to new coronavirus cases.

The news comes hours before New Zealand moves out of its toughest level of social restrictions.

From Tuesday, some non-essential business, healthcare and education activity will be able to resume.

Most people will still be required to remain at home at all times and avoid all social interactions.

Praised For Curbing COVID-19, New Zealand's Leader Eases Country's Strict Lockdown : Coronavirus Live Updates : NPR
A mother of a 21-month-old, Ardern, 39, regularly appears on Facebook Live chats, dressed in a sweatshirt, commiserating with families enduring isolation in their "bubble," as she calls their place of shelter, and assuring children the tooth fairy is still on the job. When she imposed stringent stay-home rules in late March, she urged people to "be strong and be kind."

...
Some people might write off her cozy chat style "as soft or fluffy," he says. "But it reassures people. It helps maintain a sense of mutuality in society ... and that creates trust with the leader."

Daily news conferences with the progressive leftist are shorn of political partisanship and focus on data and science. They are, says Jackson, a former Pentagon official during the Obama administration, a contrast to President Trump's combative briefings.

...
Jackson says "social solidarity" has been the lesson from New Zealand: "If we're all in this together, then we're actually going to get through it better and faster." Jackson notes "collectivist societies" are faring better and more efficiently "than fractured, individualist societies."

...
Food delivery and drive-through restaurants are reopening, expanding options for New Zealanders, who are advised to remain close to and work from home. Auckland University of Technology professor Waring says, "Level 3 is Level 4, with takeout."

Nonetheless, New Zealand eases restrictions on swimming, surfing and fishing with some trepidation.
COVID-19 Alert Levels Detailed

What Happens When Women Stop Leading Like Men | Occupy.com - nice article on PM Jacinda Ardern

I don't know where that list of international airports comes from, but if it doesn't include Coolangatta (which had at least four international flights a week prior to Covid-19), then it also should exclude all the others apart from Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, and Perth.

Seriously. Port Hedland (pop 14,000) has an international airport only in the most pedantic technical sense; And even if a plane load of Covid-19 carriers from overseas did land there, they would need to walk several thousand kilometres to find anyone else to infect.

Coolangatta airport serves a population base of about 500,000 people. How the fuck does Port Hedland get a mention, but not Coolangatta??
 
How can total cases still be over 900,000? Are they still counting the people who had it in March and recovered? That should be removed from the total cases!

Are you really that hapless? Total cases, deaths, recovered cases and active cases are clearly broken out.
You really REALLY have a reading deficit AND a problem with actual facts.
 
The quarantine isn't perfect;
Actually, it isn't a quarantine to begin with!

Why is a shutdown that allows people to go outside and intermingle at grocery stores and even gun stores and whatnot not stopping all cases? Asked and answered.
 
I'll now do Australia.

Its international airports: Canberra, Newcastle, Sydney, Darwin, Brisbane, Cairns, Townsville, Adelaide, Hobart, Geelong, Melbourne, Broome, Perth, Port Hedland
I don't know where that list of international airports comes from, but if it doesn't include Coolangatta (which had at least four international flights a week prior to Covid-19), then it also should exclude all the others apart from Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, and Perth.
Oops, I missed that one. It's Gold Coast / Coolangatta

My source:  List of airports in Australia - a bolded airport name means regular passenger service, a bolded city name means international service. The cities with international airports: Canberra, Newcastle, Sydney, Darwin, Brisbane, Cairns, Gold Coast, Townsville, Adelaide, Hobart, Geelong, Melbourne, Broome, Perth, Port Hedland

I also used:
 List of airports in New Zealand - data column called "International"
 List of airports in South Korea - airport counted if its name contains "International"
 List of airports in Taiwan - international airports' names are bolded
 
I'll now do Australia.

Its international airports: Canberra, Newcastle, Sydney, Darwin, Brisbane, Cairns, Townsville, Adelaide, Hobart, Geelong, Melbourne, Broome, Perth, Port Hedland
I don't know where that list of international airports comes from, but if it doesn't include Coolangatta (which had at least four international flights a week prior to Covid-19), then it also should exclude all the others apart from Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, and Perth.
Oops, I missed that one. It's Gold Coast / Coolangatta

My source:  List of airports in Australia - a bolded airport name means regular passenger service, a bolded city name means international service. The cities with international airports: Canberra, Newcastle, Sydney, Darwin, Brisbane, Cairns, Gold Coast, Townsville, Adelaide, Hobart, Geelong, Melbourne, Broome, Perth, Port Hedland

I also used:
 List of airports in New Zealand - data column called "International"
 List of airports in South Korea - airport counted if its name contains "International"
 List of airports in Taiwan - international airports' names are bolded

Does a remote place with a population of 14,000 really qualify as a 'city'? It's essentially a mining camp - and it has international flights largely because the closest population centres aren't in Australia. (For that matter, Perth too is closer to Singapore than it is to Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane or Canberra).
 
What caught my eye in today's US stats is the first drop in critical cases that I recall. Almost 20,000 "recoveries" were added in one day and the number of serious, critical cases declined by almost a thousand after slowly climbing since some time in March. Might be the first decline yet in that number but I'm too lazy to thumb through all the files...

WM04-27.JPG
 
What caught my eye in today's US stats is the first drop in critical cases that I recall. Almost 20,000 "recoveries" were added in one day and the number of serious, critical cases declined by almost a thousand after slowly climbing since some time in March. Might be the first decline yet in that number but I'm too lazy to thumb through all the files...

View attachment 27378

That's actually looking promising - UK, Spain, Italy in the 300s, US under 1500, on a weekday!
 
Back
Top Bottom