To Give You a Size of the Immense and Growing Size of Illegal Immigration

[laughing dog]

How are "we " (whomever that is) supposedly are substituting one form of racism for another? What evidence is there that the Biden administration is telling these immigrants that white people are their problem?

The racism is with the DEI quota which according to the leaked footage IBM is under guidance. A non racisist pure meritocracy would hire and promote talent based on ability and hard work.... .not race. As the video points out we have substituted the racism we did once had in the south for DEI racism today.

. And we know the video is completely accurate because….?

I agree with you the DEI quota does not advertise white people are a problem but the Biden administration has been doing this nontheless. They turn their backs when historical statues (such as Jefferson) are spray painted and destroyed. If someone like Trump is denounced for saying white supremacy is bad, then someone like Biden should be making it equally clear that pulling down a historical statue of Washington or Jefferson is bad.

Who denounced Trump for saying white supremacy is bad? And if Trump did not make clear that pulling down Jefferson statutes is bad, why should Biden?

 

[bilby]

More from X (twitter)

If I wanted to know what a bunch of racist morons on Twitter were saying, I would be there instead of here.

Neither Elon Musk nor Tucker Carlton are members here (as far as I know), and as neither has any relevant expertise, nor even any apparent grasp of the basics, their opinions are valueless to me.

And should be to you, too.

 

[Patooka]

Seeing as this thread has gone on for over four pages, I thought there might be some arguments that have merit with regards to immigration.

More from X (twitter)

Then I realised it was a guy who seriously believes in UFOS, 9/11 Trutherism and is of the opinion Alex Jones is worth listening to, so I went back to sleep again.

 

[scombrid]

Look, everyone. The Biden Administration was way better at apprehending illegal immigrants!

Trump barely caught any illegal immigrants at all in April 2020.

Why was he so terrible at his job?

Generally (although not always) you can expect to catch more fish if there are more fish in the pond.

That's what I originally thought, too. It was my first instinct. I wouldn't have brought it up, though, if there wasn't something more to it. Therefore, that is something you need to verify with actual data. What happens when we look at data?

Here's one source of information:

Here's another:


Here is more info on the Trump era:

FAQs

www.elpasotexas.gov

Seems they are avoiding this.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Funny, how they keep voting for the GOP, who had majorities in both Houses of Congress and the White House... and failed to really pass any type of legislation to deal with immigration... even when one of those President, W, had a plan to put forth... despite making so much noise about illegal immigration.

Funny.

It is also not funny how I remember the Democrat leaders taking pride over every way they could think of to prevent Trump's wall.

You would have an excellent point if the Democrats would have just sat back and let Trump fail over the wall. But instead of that, they made a big performance how they would prevent the wall. Had the wall actually been completed and not worked (a very real possibility) we could say that the Democrats were smart and Trump was dumb. But now all we can really conclude is that the Democrats did not give a shit about illegal immigration and Trump did.

And compared to all the other wasteful spending we just give away to other countries, how much would it have cost to blow money on a wall that did not work perfectly as advertised? At least it would have been a symbol representing the goal.

George W Bush had a plan that the Dems probably would have worked together on too. It wasn't just under the idiot who accidently became President during a con.

 

[scombrid]

Just more "replacement theory" right along with Trump's "Poisoning the Blood" speech. Sad thing is that the people pushing it for political gain have to distort the picture so much to the point of flat out lying to make their case. But the voters they are manipulating are eating it up anyway.

 

[Patooka]

There is a lot we do not know about the data. That said, it's an apples to oranges comparison of encounters to births. Some things to think about:

• What does it look like before Oct 2019? I've seen this before and it wasn't as low.
• An encounter is not the same thing as a person. One person can be encountered many times or not at all.
• An encounter is not necessarily the same as an apprehension, though you'd expect it to be. Some persons might be counted more than once because you encounter them once and then some other time might apprehend them.
• The encounters are not necessarily permanent person increases but they are being compared to births which are an increase in person count. Some illegal immigrants come to the US for work, go back home, and then come again for more work, go back home, and so on. So you may be encountering the same temporary resident over and over.
• Presumably, an encounter with a known illegal immigrant mostly involves an apprehension most times. So is Biden better at apprehending illegal immigrants and Trump failed?

The whole "encounters is not the same as immigrants" fact has been pointed out to RVonse before. Expect your points to be ignored and RVonse repeated the exact same shit in 3 months time.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

He's right. It's literally insane.

Only crazy people would accept, without question, the validity of a graph of unsourced figures, posted on the Internet.

Is there any reason to believe that these aren't in fact the data for sales of Pepsi vs Coca-Cola?

If I am going to become outraged, I'm going to need a LOT more than this tripe as a stimulus to do so.

Even if the data actually show what they purport to show, the tacit admission behind "these are just the official encounters, we don't know how many avoided detection" is that the entire increase could be a consequence of better detection - Trump's administration could just have been as bad at detecting illegal immigrants, as they were at literally everything else, and the result would look just like that presented here.

I wouldn't be surprised if the graph is correct. Trump makes big noises, he doesn't do.

Note that it's measuring apprehensions, not illegals.

And note that His Flatulence had a policy of kidnapping children and other things Geneva wouldn't approve of, whereas Biden doesn't. Would you not expect that more people would apply for refugee status rather than hiding out? Many of those apprehensions are people turning themselves in to apply for refugee status since they aren't being processed properly at the border.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

And of course your views on immigration are dumb and illogical, but that's not the basis on which either state court should have acted anyway, so it's irrelevant. You will be free to "vote against immigration" in November no matter what the Supreme Court decides about the Trump situation, so you should relax a little.

So if law is not decided based solely on political expediency, how come California made a different decision than Colorado did based on the same case?

Fundamentally, it comes down to what threshold is required to be considered an insurrection. The 14th doesn't define that because it was written for a case where it was patently obvious. For different courts to make different decisions on an inadequately defined piece of law is no surprise.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Thank you for a well thought out post.

For a start it would be very nice if the left would not automatically laugh at Trumps idea when he talks about a border wall. The border wall probably won't work anyway but at least it is the starting symbol to represent the expectation NOT to let illegal immigrants in so easily. Why do we have so much in our budget for other countries and none for our own border fence and for our own sovereign rights? When Trump was POTUS, it was people like Pelosi, Schiff and Schumer who fought tooth and nail against the fence. The left should STOP voting for these people.

You are correct that there are non maga republicans who act like Pelosi and correct to say conservatives should not elect them again either.

And herein lies part of the problem. You admit the wall won't work but see it as a symbol. We do not like the idea of wasting many billions on a symbol. The right is all about symbols rather than about reality. And I note you didn't address his kidnapping of children. (Not just locking them up separately but so many records were lost that it pretty much has to be intentional.)

 

[Ford]

Thank you for a well thought out post.

For a start it would be very nice if the left would not automatically laugh at Trumps idea when he talks about a border wall. The border wall probably won't work anyway but at least it is the starting symbol to represent the expectation NOT to let illegal immigrants in so easily. Why do we have so much in our budget for other countries and none for our own border fence and for our own sovereign rights? When Trump was POTUS, it was people like Pelosi, Schiff and Schumer who fought tooth and nail against the fence. The left should STOP voting for these people.

You are correct that there are non maga republicans who act like Pelosi and correct to say conservatives should not elect them again either.

And herein lies part of the problem. You admit the wall won't work but see it as a symbol. We do not like the idea of wasting many billions on a symbol. The right is all about symbols rather than about reality. And I note you didn't address his kidnapping of children. (Not just locking them up separately but so many records were lost that it pretty much has to be intentional.)

When I was younger, the Republicans were (or at least presented themselves as) the "rational" party. The left were the ones "ruled by their emotions." Derided as "tree huggers" and such. Since Trump took over, the right has become ruled by feelings rather than facts. RVonse wants a useless wall that will make him feel like something is being done. He wants migrants treated cruelly because he feels it will make them stop coming. He wants Trump (or Trump-like) policies on the border because he feels it will help, and feels that the Biden administration is doing absolutely nothing to stop illegal immigration. Facts matter not in the face of feelings.

And I'm sure there are those on the right who take perverse pleasure in the child separation policy. That's the disturbing part. There are still kids who haven't been reunited with their parents, and there are right wingers who think that's awesome. I mean, just take a look at Abbott and DeSantis' stunt where they shipped refugees to Martha's Vineyard. That was "the cruelty is the point" on display for all to see. If I remember correctly, those refugees were deliberately given misleading info not only to get them up there, but were lied to about their asylum hearings and/or were given hearings in such a way (distance, lack of time) that assured they'd be deported.

That's another thing that has changed. Used to be, even Republicans would say "oh no, you fled a brutal communist dictatorship and showed up on our shores looking for freedom? Come on in!" Now? "You're here from a brutal dictatorship looking for help? Fuck you."

 

[RVonse]

We do not like the idea of wasting many billions on a symbol. The right is all about symbols rather than about reality.

The wall is actually a physical barrier so that makes it more than just a symbol.

And both party's use symbols for visibility and good effect. What is a pink pussy hat if not a symbol?

 

[bilby]

The wall is actually a physical barrier so that makes it more than just a symbol.

It doesn't actually stop people though; So it IS just a symbol.

Or are you reversing yoir position in the OP, and claiming that illegal border crossings have fallen since the wall was erected?

 

[bilby]

And both party's use symbols for visibility and good effect. What is a pink pussy hat if not a symbol?

What is whataboutism if not an admission that you are wrong?

 

[southernhybrid]

We do not like the idea of wasting many billions on a symbol. The right is all about symbols rather than about reality.

The wall is actually a physical barrier so that makes it more than just a symbol.

And both party's use symbols for visibility and good effect. What is a pink pussy hat if not a symbol?

Have you bothered to watch all the examples of how easily one can cut a hole in that wall and come in, or climb over it etc. Pink Pussy hats are cheap and they aren't paid for by the government. They were simply worn by some of the women who marched in the "women's march" several years ago. That was a pretty dump analogy, wasn't it?

 

[Ford]

The wall is actually a physical barrier so that makes it more than just a symbol.

It doesn't actually stop people though; So it IS just a symbol.

Or are you reversing yoir position in the OP, and claiming that illegal border crossings have fallen since the wall was erected?

One of my favorite episodes of Penn & Teller's "Bullshit" show was when they hired illegal immigrants to build a section of a "border wall" and then challenged them to get through/around/under it. Took 'em a few minutes.

I guess you could say it was...a symbol of how a wall isn't the solution.

 

[robnisch]

I heard on NPR a few days ago that part of what the Mexican government asked for in the meeting with Blinken was for the US to help those countries form stable governments. We fuck with them for 125 years, now is the time to help them.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

At first I thought this was troubling then I read;

let me assure you it is about all the maga supporters are talking about right now.

...and went back to sleep.

The reason I felt the comment noteworthy is because our media is purposefully manipulative for profit. Now days you can not dismiss half of the population not even aware what the other half is freaking out over. And your comment proves my point perfectly.

You're freaking out because your cult tells you to freak out. You think there's a big problem where there isn't.

 

[Ford]

At first I thought this was troubling then I read;

let me assure you it is about all the maga supporters are talking about right now.

...and went back to sleep.

The reason I felt the comment noteworthy is because our media is purposefully manipulative for profit.

I say this as a former member of the media whose job was creating advertising for profit...

Yeah? And?

I am constantly blown away by right wingers who attack "the media" for being "purposefully manipulative for profit" when the entire modus operandi for the right wing is "profit above all else." For the right, capitalism is always the answer. If you're making money, you're doing it right. Doesn't matter how you're going from Point A to Profit. So long as your quarterly numbers are good and the stock price is going up, you're a righteous warrior for the cause. Truth and objectivity are sacrificed at the altar of profit. Always.

Yet somehow you're telling me that the furthest right wing media outlets aren't in it for the money? As our current President says, "come on, man."

Right wing content is a huge business. Fox News' parent is arguably the largest "mainstream media" company on the planet. Right wing talk radio is dominated by iHeart, the biggest media company in that sphere. These are not plucky upstart outsiders. They are ruthlessly capitalistic to their core. If you're getting your content from the likes of Fox, iHeart, Newsmax, or online stars like Shapiro, or Charlie Kirk, and you think you're getting the "objective truth" without any profit motive? Then I've got a moldy box of Trump Steaks I'd like to sell you.

 

[TV and credit cards]

Thank you for a well thought out post.

For a start it would be very nice if the left would not automatically laugh at Trumps idea when he talks about a border wall. The border wall probably won't work anyway but at least it is the starting symbol to represent the expectation NOT to let illegal immigrants in so easily. Why do we have so much in our budget for other countries and none for our own border fence and for our own sovereign rights? When Trump was POTUS, it was people like Pelosi, Schiff and Schumer who fought tooth and nail against the fence. The left should STOP voting for these people.

You are correct that there are non maga republicans who act like Pelosi and correct to say conservatives should not elect them again either.

And herein lies part of the problem. You admit the wall won't work but see it as a symbol. We do not like the idea of wasting many billions on a symbol. The right is all about symbols rather than about reality. And I note you didn't address his kidnapping of children. (Not just locking them up separately but so many records were lost that it pretty much has to be intentional.)

The wall is actually a physical barrier so that makes it more than just a symbol.

It doesn't actually stop people though; So it IS just a symbol.

Or are you reversing yoir position in the OP, and claiming that illegal border crossings have fallen since the wall was erected?

So I've got three solid "won't works". I would think it would at least be a significant deterrence, freeing up security personnel for other duties. Israel's seems to work well enough, where it's a wall and not a fence sans vehicle obstacles. Lessons learned and all. And I'm sure no one is suggesting a human pass through a wall. My understanding is solid objects tend to be rather antisocial in these regards.

I would think something could be constructed that cannot be cut through, climbed over, or dug under. Sensors for digging, perhaps a no-mans land to deter shenanigans on the other side.

Point being, here and in any news I've sourced since Trump started running his mouth about the wall, I've not heard a good argument against a wall other than the "it's not 100%" one that we all know to be more of an excuse than a argument.



Ref: Effectiveness of Israel's West Bank Barrier.
Warning: Contains Wikipedia as a reference. May be too intense for some readers.