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To Give You a Size of the Immense and Growing Size of Illegal Immigration

Immigration is pretty high right now on the south border. It isn't a flood, but it is high enough border communities need our support. So do the cities that are running out of vacancy. What these places don't need is alt-right xenophobic angst.

Speaker Johnson wants to close the border.
 
Just more "replacement theory" right along with Trump's "Poisoning the Blood" speech. Sad thing is that the people pushing it for political gain have to distort the picture so much to the point of flat out lying to make their case. But the voters they are manipulating are eating it up anyway.

Tens of thousands of people are coming into the USA illegally almost every day. What is being distorted?

How many people are leaving the USA almost every day?

How many? What is your point, there is no problem at the border? I went on vacation to Europe for a couple of weeks last year, does that count for something?

If we watch people walk into a Wal-Mart and ignore the people walking out, wouldn't we soon be justified calling the Fire Marshall to report Wal-Mart is in violation of local code? How long until the customers are crammed in shoulder to shoulder?

Yeah, wtf are these mayors in Chicago and New York whining about? Because Chicago and New York are just like a store or a night club.
 
In the early 19th century, the entirety of what we today call the American Southwest, including all of Texas and California, was part of Mexico.

During that period of time, there was a huge problem of illegal immigration — white American southerners illegally crossing into Mexican territory, particularly Texas, which also had a large indigenous population, and bringing their slave with them. Mexico made a deal with the U.S. to allow limited legal immigration, provided no slaves were brought, and immigrants agreed to abide by Mexican law. This deal was brazenly violated, and whites with slaves continued to pour illegally into Mexico and began setting up cotton plantations. Mexico resisted.

Things came to head in the mid-1840s, when President James K. Polk launched an illegal invasion of Mexico under the phony pretext that Mexican soldiers had fired on U.S. soldiers into U.S. territory. This pretext was known to be a crock by then-U.S. Representative Abraham Lincoln among many others. Lincoln introduced what were called his Spot Resolutions, demanding the Polk identify the precise spots on U.S. territory where Mexicans had fired. Of course he couldn’t do it, because the attacks never took place. The real reason for the war was to rip off vast swathes of Mexican territory to carve out new lands for the expansion of slavery, since slavery was prohibited in the North and the south needed new lands where they could take their slaves.

The war was successful. The U.S. annexed more than half of Mexico.

Many studies have shown that today’s “illegal” immigration of Mexicans and others from south of the border greatly benefits the U.S. economy. Living in New York City, I personally know of many undocumented immigrants from south of the border who are among the hardest-working people I have ever encountered, and who are pervasively exploited by their employers.

I put “illegal” in quotes because there is nothing illegal about reclaiming that which is rightfully yours. It may be de facto illegal under U.S. law but de jure it is absolutely correct.

Indeed, decades ago, Gore Vidal remarked that illegal immigration from Mexico represents a worthwhile and commendable effort by Mexico to reclaim the lands that were stolen from them. I agree with Vidal and I applaud Mexico in this effort, and wish it all the success in the world.

And I hope the first place they raise the Mexican flag is Santa Monica.
 
How many? What is your point, there is no problem at the border?

The point--and I assume you read the article I posted--is that over the long run, net migration is near zero. People come to America, but people also leave America--and the reason appears to mostly be about economic conditions, not who currently occupies the White House.

Businesses love this pool of cheap unregulated labor, and that's what they tell the Congresspersons they donate to, which is likely why immigration reform doesn't change much year after year. Were Congress serious about stopping illegal immigration, they would enact E-verify. That would make it easier for businesses to employ workers, but also more costly if the workers are undocumented, due to fines, etc. But the businesses don't want that, so Congress doesn't press for it.

However, immigration really fires up the base, so certain politicians--and the media outlets that support them--are quick to emphasize the apparent one-way-door of immigration, without mentioning that the door actually swings both ways.

I went on vacation to Europe for a couple of weeks last year, does that count for something?

No, because (I presume) you are an American citizen. Vacation travel is not included in immigration statistics.
 

It is exactly as secure now as it was when he sulked out of the White House. Yet to hear the right wing tell it, there are hordes of rapey brown drug dealers streaming across the border in caravans coming to take our jobs/not work at all/lower property values in Florida.
Yes the chimpanzees and apes certainly are hooting and hollering about this right now. But that still does not mean their response is not rational.

Consider how Rome fell:
Just like Rome wasn't built in a day, it also didn't fall in a day. Its demise can be attributed to many factors, especially internal corruption, division, and outside invasion. As Rome grew in size and population, the rulers of Rome became very corrupt.
Um...that first part seems a little racist. But hey, maybe you can clarify who the "chimpanzees and apes" are that you're talking about.
I was actually referring to maga supporters but since most of them are white it can't be a racist comment. At least not under current woke guidelines. I should be able to call maga supporters anything and get away with it here.
 
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It is exactly as secure now as it was when he sulked out of the White House. Yet to hear the right wing tell it, there are hordes of rapey brown drug dealers streaming across the border in caravans coming to take our jobs/not work at all/lower property values in Florida.
Yes the chimpanzees and apes certainly are hooting and hollering about this right now. But that still does not mean their response is not rational.

Consider how Rome fell:
Just like Rome wasn't built in a day, it also didn't fall in a day. Its demise can be attributed to many factors, especially internal corruption, division, and outside invasion. As Rome grew in size and population, the rulers of Rome became very corrupt.
Mexico is not an invading Hunnic tribe, they are an allied nation that has risked a lot to side with us over the last many decades. Republican politicians are traitorous turncoats, who abuse our alliances but pose for smiling photo ops with foreign dictators snd conquerors; that's your threat from within. Not poor people trying to cross a river to see their family.
 

It is exactly as secure now as it was when he sulked out of the White House. Yet to hear the right wing tell it, there are hordes of rapey brown drug dealers streaming across the border in caravans coming to take our jobs/not work at all/lower property values in Florida.
Yes the chimpanzees and apes certainly are hooting and hollering about this right now. But that still does not mean their response is not rational.

Consider how Rome fell:
Just like Rome wasn't built in a day, it also didn't fall in a day. Its demise can be attributed to many factors, especially internal corruption, division, and outside invasion. As Rome grew in size and population, the rulers of Rome became very corrupt.


As for Rome? Funny thing about that. Rome had some of their biggest successes when they "welcomed" new lands into the Republic/Empire. How did they do this? Citizenship. When Rome straddled the world (so to speak), do you know how you earned Roman citizenship? In short, by being within the borders of Rome. How did Rome fall? That's a very complicated question, but rest assured it is not because "they let too many brown people become citizens." If I remember correctly, the "outside invasion" you credit for the fall of Rome didn't come from Mexico. It came from (checks notes) white Europeans. Vandals and Visigoths. But that was just old Rome. The Roman Empire continued for another thousand years after the same guy who said "this Jewish guy from Palestine seems awesome" moved the capital of the Empire to (checks notes) the Middle East. Constantinople was diverse as fuck.
The US is following Rome's path but at an accelerated timeline. First they opened borders and "welcomed" people from other countries Then they subcontracted those aliens into the military by giving citizenship. And finally those same military mercenaries turned against their empire because it really wasn't their empire. They were never really assimilated to Rome and they saw how corrupt the leaders really were.

The US ruling elite view the same opportunity with illegal immigrants today because they know they can push them around. And they are also short of military recruitment numbers. It is very likely that government mandated "woke" policy has caused deplorables not to want to serve in the military anymore.

Senetor Durbin (of Illinios)
“The presiding officer, my colleague from the state of Illinois, has legislation which addresses one aspect of that. Her bill, and I hope I describe it accurately, says that if you are an undocumented person in this country and you can pass the physical and the required background test the like, you can serve in our military. And if you do it honorably, we will make you citizens of the United States. Do we need that? You know what the recruiting numbers are.”

“At the Army and the Navy and the Air Force, they can't reach their quarters each month. They can't find enough people to join our military forces. And there are those who are undocumented who want the chance to serve and risk their lives for this country should be given the chance. I think we should.”
 
Mexico is not an invading Hunnic tribe, they are an allied nation that has risked a lot to side with us over the last many decades. Republican politicians are traitorous turncoats, who abuse our alliances but pose for smiling photo ops with foreign dictators snd conquerors; that's your threat from within. Not poor people trying to cross a river to see their family.
It is not their poverty that makes them dangerous. Nor their demeanor or culture. What makes them extremely dangerous to the US is their huge numbers (in comparison to our domestic birth rate) and the fact they can be readily pushed around by the ruling elite to serve their selfish and undemocratic agenda.
 
It is exactly as secure now as it was when he sulked out of the White House. Yet to hear the right wing tell it, there are hordes of rapey brown drug dealers streaming across the border in caravans coming to take our jobs/not work at all/lower property values in Florida.
Yes the chimpanzees and apes certainly are hooting and hollering about this right now. But that still does not mean their response is not rational.

Consider how Rome fell:
Just like Rome wasn't built in a day, it also didn't fall in a day. Its demise can be attributed to many factors, especially internal corruption, division, and outside invasion. As Rome grew in size and population, the rulers of Rome became very corrupt.
Um...that first part seems a little racist. But hey, maybe you can clarify who the "chimpanzees and apes" are that you're talking about.
I was actually referring to maga supporters but since most of them are white it can't be a racist comment. At least not under current woke guidelines.
Racism and bigotry are different words meaning different things regarding a similar subject. That isn't woke, that is the English Language.
RVonse said:
It is not their poverty that makes them dangerous. Nor their demeanor or culture. What makes them extremely dangerous to the US is their huge numbers (in comparison to our domestic birth rate) and the fact they can be readily pushed around by the ruling elite to serve their selfish and undemocratic agenda.
Well, that was positively meaningless accusation. They birth more babies and the elite will push them around.
 
Mexico is not an invading Hunnic tribe, they are an allied nation that has risked a lot to side with us over the last many decades. Republican politicians are traitorous turncoats, who abuse our alliances but pose for smiling photo ops with foreign dictators snd conquerors; that's your threat from within. Not poor people trying to cross a river to see their family.
It is not their poverty that makes them dangerous. Nor their demeanor or culture. What makes them extremely dangerous to the US is their huge numbers (in comparison to our domestic birth rate) and the fact they can be readily pushed around by the ruling elite to serve their selfish and undemocratic agenda.
You mean just like magas?
 
How many? What is your point, there is no problem at the border?

The point--and I assume you read the article I posted--is that over the long run, net migration is near zero. People come to America, but people also leave America--and the reason appears to mostly be about economic conditions, not who currently occupies the White House.

{snip}

I skimmed over the article and it is less than convincing to say that net immigration is net zero. The article seems only applicable to migration from Mexico but I will have to look closer when I get the chance.

Never the less, the sudden and massive surge at the Southern border is a problem that as far as I can see is being poorly handled.

However, immigration really fires up the base, so certain politicians--and the media outlets that support them--are quick to emphasize the apparent one-way-door of immigration, without mentioning that the door actually swings both ways.

The issue is with illegal immigration. And lots of people have a problem with that, not just the MAGA that you obsess about. But you are correct, there is no discussion about outgoing population and it is worth considering.

I went on vacation to Europe for a couple of weeks last year, does that count for something?

No, because (I presume) you are an American citizen. Vacation travel is not included in immigration statistics.

Dual citizen. I don't have to come back here. Starting to question why I came here in the first place!
 
If speaker Johnson and his cabal of knuckleheads flirt with clamping down on illegal immigration, Cargill will straighten their asses out toot sweet.

During Jerome Powell's press conference a couple weeks back he came right out and said immigration was one of two main contributors for getting inflation in check. He didn't expound on that comment but I'm betting he didn't mean people who flew in and overstayed their tourist visa were now picking peppers in the Central Valley.
 
Mexico is not an invading Hunnic tribe, they are an allied nation that has risked a lot to side with us over the last many decades. Republican politicians are traitorous turncoats, who abuse our alliances but pose for smiling photo ops with foreign dictators snd conquerors; that's your threat from within. Not poor people trying to cross a river to see their family.

Like Biden and Newsom when they met with Xi Jinping?
 
Immigration is pretty high right now on the south border. It isn't a flood, but it is high enough border communities need our support. So do the cities that are running out of vacancy. What these places don't need is alt-right xenophobic angst.

Speaker Johnson wants to close the border.
Mexico is not an invading Hunnic tribe, they are an allied nation that has risked a lot to side with us over the last many decades. Republican politicians are traitorous turncoats, who abuse our alliances but pose for smiling photo ops with foreign dictators snd conquerors; that's your threat from within. Not poor people trying to cross a river to see their family.

Like Biden and Newsom when they met with Xi Jinping?
And yet the GOP denied the Biden requested increase in funding for border security.....

It's almost as though they aren't sincere.
 
The US ruling elite view the same opportunity with illegal immigrants today because they know they can push them around. And they are also short of military recruitment numbers. It is very likely that government mandated "woke" policy has caused deplorables not to want to serve in the military anymore.
It's much more probable that, considering the unemployment numbers and rising wages, USAians don't need to use the employment of last resort.
 
How many? What is your point, there is no problem at the border?

The point--and I assume you read the article I posted--is that over the long run, net migration is near zero. People come to America, but people also leave America--and the reason appears to mostly be about economic conditions, not who currently occupies the White House.

{snip}

I skimmed over the article and it is less than convincing to say that net immigration is net zero. The article seems only applicable to migration from Mexico but I will have to look closer when I get the chance.

Never the less, the sudden and massive surge at the Southern border is a problem that as far as I can see is being poorly handled.
Is it? On one hand, the numbers are high. On the other hand, the Speaker of the House is saying the border people are telling them they have all the resources they need.

Biden is a tad bit unable to stop migrants from leaving nations in Central America. He is pressuring Mexico to break up the caravans in southern Mexico, which they did recently by lying to them and splitting them up, including families, so I suppose that works.
However, immigration really fires up the base, so certain politicians--and the media outlets that support them--are quick to emphasize the apparent one-way-door of immigration, without mentioning that the door actually swings both ways.
The issue is with illegal immigration. And lots of people have a problem with that, not just the MAGA that you obsess about. But you are correct, there is no discussion about outgoing population and it is worth considering.
Illegal immigration is generally a MAGA/right-wing obsession. Has been for decades, and even with trifecta in Government under W and Trump, the right-wing did nothing to address the issue, even when W actually had a plan.

As far as I can tell, there are no illegals in my home, so it can't be a problem.
 
Mexico is not an invading Hunnic tribe, they are an allied nation that has risked a lot to side with us over the last many decades. Republican politicians are traitorous turncoats, who abuse our alliances but pose for smiling photo ops with foreign dictators snd conquerors; that's your threat from within. Not poor people trying to cross a river to see their family.
It is not their poverty that makes them dangerous. Nor their demeanor or culture. What makes them extremely dangerous to the US is their huge numbers (in comparison to our domestic birth rate) and the fact they can be readily pushed around by the ruling elite to serve their selfish and undemocratic agenda.
What "undemocratic agenda"? Voting? Working for a paycheck? Raising kids?
 
Dual citizen. I don't have to come back here. Starting to question why I came here in the first place!
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I went on vacation to Europe for a couple of weeks last year, does that count for something?
It does indeed. Using the exact same logic as employed in this thread, we must conclude that you are an illegal immigrant in Europe. You went there, and you don't have the right to work there, nor to remain there indefinitely.

I mean, you subsequently left, but we are ignoring people subsequently leaving. That's the entire point of the post to which you are responding.
 
Mexico is not an invading Hunnic tribe, they are an allied nation that has risked a lot to side with us over the last many decades. Republican politicians are traitorous turncoats, who abuse our alliances but pose for smiling photo ops with foreign dictators snd conquerors; that's your threat from within. Not poor people trying to cross a river to see their family.
It is not their poverty that makes them dangerous. Nor their demeanor or culture. What makes them extremely dangerous to the US is their huge numbers (in comparison to our domestic birth rate) and the fact they can be readily pushed around by the ruling elite to serve their selfish and undemocratic agenda.
What "undemocratic agenda"? Voting? Working for a paycheck? Raising kids?
I was referring to the undemocratic agenda of our ruling elite. The same ruling elite who controls both Democrats and Republicans who (prior to Trump) always walked lock step in globalism, to wit:

1. Military and CIA involvement everywhere except our own boarders
2. Off shoring the manufacturing and high value jobs to the rest of the world
3. Increased central control of federal government, less freedom for the people who pay their salaries
4. Government leaders who are supposed to serve the public but instead pass laws they don't themselves follow, such as insider stock trading
5. Always higher taxes for lower and middle classes and lower taxes for the uber rich

We did take a very brief pause on #2 during the Trump administration but I am a little concerned (maga supporters are really concerned) if our ruling elite becomes successful taking out Trump and his populist ideology, the Republican party will just go back to its default factory settings again. We will then go back to undemocratic lockstep party monopolies once again.
 
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