To Give You a Size of the Immense and Growing Size of Illegal Immigration

[Politesse]

Mexico is not an invading Hunnic tribe, they are an allied nation that has risked a lot to side with us over the last many decades. Republican politicians are traitorous turncoats, who abuse our alliances but pose for smiling photo ops with foreign dictators snd conquerors; that's your threat from within. Not poor people trying to cross a river to see their family.

It is not their poverty that makes them dangerous. Nor their demeanor or culture. What makes them extremely dangerous to the US is their huge numbers (in comparison to our domestic birth rate) and the fact they can be readily pushed around by the ruling elite to serve their selfish and undemocratic agenda.

What "undemocratic agenda"? Voting? Working for a paycheck? Raising kids?

I was referring to the undemocratic agenda of our ruling elite. The same ruling elite who controls both Democrats and Republicans who (prior to Trump) always walked lock step in globalism, to wit:

1. Military and CIA involvement everywhere except our own boarders
2. Off shoring the manufacturing and high value jobs to the rest of the world
3. Increased central control of federal government, less freedom for the people who pay their salaries
4. Government leaders who are supposed to serve the public but instead pass laws they don't themselves follow, such as insider stock trading
5. Always higher taxes for lower and middle classes and lower taxes for the uber rich

We did take a very brief pause on #2 during the Trump administration but I am a little concerned (maga supporters are really concerned) if our ruling elite becomes successful taking out Trump and his populist ideology, the Republican party will just go back to its default factory settings again. We will then go back to undemocratic lockstep party monopolies once again.

So you feel that people who were made homeless by CIA meddling are more likely to support CIA actions in the home countries they were exiled from than clueless Americans who have no idea where those countries even are? You feel that people who came here for the opportunity to work are more likely to support the off-shoring of manufacturing to other places? You feel that the victims of oppressive governments will, in general, be more likely to support the creation of a fascistic central government than someone who has never suffered under one? You feel that those who fled countries so swamped with corruption that it crashed their entire economy are more likely to look the other way when a politician is revealed to be on the take? You think people who are dirt poor, and daily pay taxes for services that as non-citizens they may never receive, generally support higher taxation of the poor? You think the political support of a class that is legally barred from voting is more important than that of the actual electorate?

Astonishing the number of incorrect and illogical things you think you can tell about someone's politics by looking at their skin pigmentation!

 

[ZiprHead]

2. Off shoring the manufacturing and high value jobs to the rest of the world

We did take a very brief pause on #2 during the Trump administration but I am a little concerned (maga supporters are really concerned) if our ruling elite becomes successful taking out Trump and his populist ideology, the Republican party will just go back to its default factory settings again. We will then go back to undemocratic lockstep party monopolies once again.

Oh good lord!!!

We can reshore manufacturing jobs, but Trump hasn’t done it: Trade rebalancing, infrastructure, and climate investments could create 17 million good jobs and rebuild the American economy

Trump’s trade policies have failed to curb offshoring—and they have not addressed the root causes of America’s growing trade deficits and the decline of American manufacturing. On top of that, COVID-19—and the administration’s mismanagement of the crisis—has wiped out much of the last decade’s...

www.epi.org

While the Trump administration has claimed that the era of U.S. offshoring is “over,” the reality is that the United States has not begun to address the root causes of America’s growing trade deficits and the decline of American manufacturing. Decades of trade, currency, and tax policies that incentivized offshoring, combined with an utter failure to invest adequately in infrastructure and good jobs at home, have contributed to growing inequality and an eroding middle class.

President Trump’s erratic, ego-driven, and inconsistent trade policies have not achieved any measurable progress, despite the newly combative rhetoric. On top of that, COVID-19—and the administration’s mismanagement of the crisis—has wiped out much of the last decade’s job gains in U.S. manufacturing.

PolitiFact - Fact-checking Joe Biden on the creation of 800,000 manufacturing jobs

President Joe Biden took a recent victory lap on social media, touting the number of manufacturing jobs created on his w

www.politifact.com

• Official federal data shows President Joe Biden, in office 45 months, is right on the number of manufacturing jobs created, although presidents do not control the economy single-handedly.
• The first three-quarters of those job gains represented a return to pre-recession levels.
• Comparing historical patterns 45 months out from a recession’s onset reveals Biden-era manufacturing employment to be the strongest in 72 years, and the second strongest since the end of World War II.

Almost every time you try to praise Trump for something, it turns out he did virtually nothing and Biden is actually the one that did it.

How many times have you tried to do this to only have the true facts shown to you? By almost all the standards you have expressed, Biden has fulfilled them far far better than Trump. Are you really that brain-washed by Trump cultism?

 

[pood]

Mexico is not an invading Hunnic tribe, they are an allied nation that has risked a lot to side with us over the last many decades. Republican politicians are traitorous turncoats, who abuse our alliances but pose for smiling photo ops with foreign dictators snd conquerors; that's your threat from within. Not poor people trying to cross a river to see their family.

It is not their poverty that makes them dangerous. Nor their demeanor or culture. What makes them extremely dangerous to the US is their huge numbers (in comparison to our domestic birth rate) and the fact they can be readily pushed around by the ruling elite to serve their selfish and undemocratic agenda.

What "undemocratic agenda"? Voting? Working for a paycheck? Raising kids?

I was referring to the undemocratic agenda of our ruling elite. The same ruling elite who controls both Democrats and Republicans who (prior to Trump) always walked lock step in globalism, to wit:

1. Military and CIA involvement everywhere except our own boarders
2. Off shoring the manufacturing and high value jobs to the rest of the world
3. Increased central control of federal government, less freedom for the people who pay their salaries
4. Government leaders who are supposed to serve the public but instead pass laws they don't themselves follow, such as insider stock trading
5. Always higher taxes for lower and middle classes and lower taxes for the uber rich

We did take a very brief pause on #2 during the Trump administration but I am a little concerned (maga supporters are really concerned) if our ruling elite becomes successful taking out Trump and his populist ideology, the Republican party will just go back to its default factory settings again. We will then go back to undemocratic lockstep party monopolies once again.

1. Continued under Trump.
2.Continued under Trump
3.Are you kidding me? Not only did this continue and accelerate under Trump, he tried to overthrow the government after he lost the election.
4. Continued and got worse under Trump, who did not divest his business holdings after his election and it was just revealed he received huge payments from foreign countries, including China.
5. Trump’s one legislative “achievement” was the passage of a huge tax cut for the wealthy that blew a monster monster hole in the deficit.

 

[RVonse]

Almost every time you try to praise Trump for something, it turns out he did virtually nothing and Biden is actually the one that did it.

How many times have you tried to do this to only have the true facts shown to you? By almost all the standards you have expressed, Biden has fulfilled them far far better than Trump. Are you really that brain-washed by Trump cultism?

I am pleased Biden continued what Trump started because frankly I expected him to undo the progress instead of actually helping with the cause.

That notwithstanding, we both know none of this progress would have happened without Trump in the first place. Had anyone else been POTUS (especially Hillary) it would have been business as usual. It took serious courage to enact unproven tariffs while almost everyone such as yourself was ridiculing Trumps effort at the time.

So yes, more progress has been made after Trump due to Biden being the expert how government works. But Trump deserves the credit for getting it going in the first place. Our new North America trade agreement with Mexico and Canada would never have happened without him.

 

[RVonse]

1. Military and CIA involvement everywhere except our own boarders
2. Off shoring the manufacturing and high value jobs to the rest of the world
3. Increased central control of federal government, less freedom for the people who pay their salaries
4. Government leaders who are supposed to serve the public but instead pass laws they don't themselves follow, such as insider stock trading
5. Always higher taxes for lower and middle classes and lower taxes for the uber rich

3.Are you kidding me? Not only did this continue and accelerate under Trump, he tried to overthrow the government after he lost the election.
4.

I do not remember Trump ever giving us the department of Homeland Security, the TSA, NSA, and the data acquisition buildings in Utah. Those are the departments that give our federal government increased central powers against the Constitution and more tyranny over the rest of us.

 

[Ford]

Almost every time you try to praise Trump for something, it turns out he did virtually nothing and Biden is actually the one that did it.

How many times have you tried to do this to only have the true facts shown to you? By almost all the standards you have expressed, Biden has fulfilled them far far better than Trump. Are you really that brain-washed by Trump cultism?

I am pleased Biden continued what Trump started because frankly I expected him to undo the progress instead of actually helping with the cause.

That notwithstanding, we both know none of this progress would have happened without Trump in the first place. Had anyone else been POTUS (especially Hillary) it would have been business as usual. It took serious courage to enact unproven tariffs while almost everyone such as yourself was ridiculing Trumps effort at the time.

So yes, more progress has been made after Trump due to Biden being the expert how government works. But Trump deserves the credit for getting it going in the first place. This would never have happened without him.

With this response, you have answered in the affirmative to Zipr's question. This is truly cult-like devotion. Speaking vaguely of "the cause" and "this progress" and "it" as if these vague things were all rooted in Trump's "genius" and Biden is really just continuing all the wonderful things that were begun under the previous administration.

Pood correctly pointed out that all the things you accused the "undemocratic elite" of doing were continued and accelerated under Trump, and when you respond to those points, perhaps you could add how the wealthiest President in American history (who attempted to overthrow our democracy) is somehow not part of this "undemocratic elite" you blame for all of our problems.

Because it seems like he fits that moniker to a "T." He is not and has never been anything but "elite," being a scion of wealth who inherited his money, a beneficiary of nepotism who never had to apply to a job outside of his father's company, and literally has golden toilets in his own bathrooms.

And on top of all that, it has come out just today that while ensconced in the White House, his companies made millions from foreign governments (including China) which goes against everything the American people have come to expect from a President.

 

[RVonse]

So you feel that people who were made homeless by CIA meddling are more likely to support CIA actions in the home countries they were exiled from than clueless Americans who have no idea where those countries even are? You feel that people who came here for the opportunity to work are more likely to support the off-shoring of manufacturing to other places? You feel that the victims of oppressive governments will, in general, be more likely to support the creation of a fascistic central government than someone who has never suffered under one? You feel that those who fled countries so swamped with corruption that it crashed their entire economy are more likely to look the other way when a politician is revealed to be on the take? You think people who are dirt poor, and daily pay taxes for services that as non-citizens they may never receive, generally support higher taxation of the poor? You think the political support of a class that is legally barred from voting is more important than that of the actual electorate?

No. They are obviously victims like we are as well.

That still does not mean illegal immigration will kill our country if it is not brought under some kind of control.

 

[RVonse]

Because it seems like he fits that moniker to a "T." He is not and has never been anything but "elite," being a scion of wealth who inherited his money, a beneficiary of nepotism who never had to apply to a job outside of his father's company, and literally has golden toilets in his own bathrooms.

I would agree Trump failed executing most of his promises. And he is no doubt a defective individual having bad morals.

But he is NOT part of the ruling elite of the US. They obviously hate him.

 

[Ford]

Because it seems like he fits that moniker to a "T." He is not and has never been anything but "elite," being a scion of wealth who inherited his money, a beneficiary of nepotism who never had to apply to a job outside of his father's company, and literally has golden toilets in his own bathrooms.

I would agree Trump failed executing most of his promises. And he is no doubt a defective individual having bad morals.

But he is NOT part of the ruling elite of the US. They obviously hate him.

To your first point I can only ask....then why are you working so hard to defend him?

As to your second point...did you miss the part where he was President for 4 years? If the "ruling elite" of the US hated him so much, then why did they spend so much of their money to get him elected? In 2016, over 400 million dollars was spent just by the Trump campaign to get him elected. Most of it came from large contributions, PACs, and of course we don't know the tally of "dark money" that was spent. For the 2020 election, Trump raised 3/4 of a BILLION dollars, much of it coming from large donors (think, ruling elites) and again, we don't know about the "dark money."

Trump was not some plucky upstart working man going up against the "elites." He was a rich man with even wealthier friends/supporters who gave him enormous amounts of money. Odd behavior for people who "obviously hate him."

What color is the sky in your world?

 

[Patooka]

Because it seems like he fits that moniker to a "T." He is not and has never been anything but "elite," being a scion of wealth who inherited his money, a beneficiary of nepotism who never had to apply to a job outside of his father's company, and literally has golden toilets in his own bathrooms.

I would agree Trump failed executing most of his promises. And he is no doubt a defective individual having bad morals.

But he is NOT part of the ruling elite of the US. They obviously hate him.

Trump's cabinet was a veritable who's who of donors and "ruling elite". What the fuck is wrong with you?

 

[Politesse]

So you feel that people who were made homeless by CIA meddling are more likely to support CIA actions in the home countries they were exiled from than clueless Americans who have no idea where those countries even are? You feel that people who came here for the opportunity to work are more likely to support the off-shoring of manufacturing to other places? You feel that the victims of oppressive governments will, in general, be more likely to support the creation of a fascistic central government than someone who has never suffered under one? You feel that those who fled countries so swamped with corruption that it crashed their entire economy are more likely to look the other way when a politician is revealed to be on the take? You think people who are dirt poor, and daily pay taxes for services that as non-citizens they may never receive, generally support higher taxation of the poor? You think the political support of a class that is legally barred from voting is more important than that of the actual electorate?

No. They are obviously victims like we are as well.

Then why is "dangerous" to have neighbors who were born in another country?

 

[Toni]

Almost every time you try to praise Trump for something, it turns out he did virtually nothing and Biden is actually the one that did it.

How many times have you tried to do this to only have the true facts shown to you? By almost all the standards you have expressed, Biden has fulfilled them far far better than Trump. Are you really that brain-washed by Trump cultism?

I am pleased Biden continued what Trump started because frankly I expected him to undo the progress instead of actually helping with the cause.

That notwithstanding, we both know none of this progress would have happened without Trump in the first place. Had anyone else been POTUS (especially Hillary) it would have been business as usual. It took serious courage to enact unproven tariffs while almost everyone such as yourself was ridiculing Trumps effort at the time.

So yes, more progress has been made after Trump due to Biden being the expert how government works. But Trump deserves the credit for getting it going in the first place. Our new North America trade agreement with Mexico and Canada would never have happened without him.

But Trump didn't start anything. Oh, he started an insurrection but that hasn't gone so well.

 

[ZiprHead]

Almost every time you try to praise Trump for something, it turns out he did virtually nothing and Biden is actually the one that did it.

How many times have you tried to do this to only have the true facts shown to you? By almost all the standards you have expressed, Biden has fulfilled them far far better than Trump. Are you really that brain-washed by Trump cultism?

I am pleased Biden continued what Trump started because frankly I expected him to undo the progress instead of actually helping with the cause.

That notwithstanding, we both know none of this progress would have happened without Trump in the first place. Had anyone else been POTUS (especially Hillary) it would have been business as usual. It took serious courage to enact unproven tariffs while almost everyone such as yourself was ridiculing Trumps effort at the time.

So yes, more progress has been made after Trump due to Biden being the expert how government works. But Trump deserves the credit for getting it going in the first place. Our new North America trade agreement with Mexico and Canada would never have happened without him.

Oh good lord again!

Did you not read the citations I posted? As usual, Trump started nothing.

I'm sorry you are so fully engulfed in the cult. I have no idea if there is any hope for you but your delusions do not change the reality.

 

[scombrid]

They like to paint him as a man of the people. It doesn’t seem to matter how many Pruitt or Wheelers or Ross he put in the cabinet. The base believes it. The Heartland Institute and Heritage Foundation are still all in for Trump.

 

[Ford]

They like to paint him as a man of the people. It doesn’t seem to matter how many Pruitt or Wheelers or Ross he put in the cabinet. The base believes it. The Heartland Institute and Heritage Foundation are still all in for Trump.

One of the most disturbing things about Trump - and what should have been the "tell" that his supporters utterly missed - is that he sold himself as "like, really rich" and didn't need all the big money donations. He was a billionaire (allegedly) and implied he was going to self-fund. Supporters bought into it. "Hell yeah! He's a man of the people! He won't take that dirty money, and he can't be influenced by it, either!"

But not only did he take every dirty dollar, when that wasn't enough he began soaking his middle and working class supporters for their cash. His campaigns in 2016 and 2020 were funded by the "ruling elites" and the regular folks who'd been conned into giving what little money they had to a "billionaire" who "didn't need money."

The amount of his own wealth he spent on his campaign? Next to nothing. In fact, he used the fundraising to fill his own coffers, and when elected tossed out the long-standing tradition that a President shouldn't use his office to enrich himself.

He soaked the "ruling elites" for money. He soaked the "regular people" for money. He didn't spend so much as a dime of his own money in his quest for power, yet folks still for some reason think he's an outsider who's trying to upset the apple cart by his intrepid independence.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Businesses love this pool of cheap unregulated labor, and that's what they tell the Congresspersons they donate to, which is likely why immigration reform doesn't change much year after year. Were Congress serious about stopping illegal immigration, they would enact E-verify. That would make it easier for businesses to employ workers, but also more costly if the workers are undocumented, due to fines, etc. But the businesses don't want that, so Congress doesn't press for it.

As a worker I do not want to see e-Verify until such time as we have dealt with identity theft. I would prefer an undocumented worker to an undocumented worker stealing the identity of an American and causing them trouble with the IRS over unreported income.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Because it seems like he fits that moniker to a "T." He is not and has never been anything but "elite," being a scion of wealth who inherited his money, a beneficiary of nepotism who never had to apply to a job outside of his father's company, and literally has golden toilets in his own bathrooms.

I would agree Trump failed executing most of his promises. And he is no doubt a defective individual having bad morals.

But he is NOT part of the ruling elite of the US. They obviously hate him.

Yeah, that massive corporate tax cut he signed just really pissed them off. What was best was his supporters thought that tax cut benefitted them!

 

[Toni]

Because it seems like he fits that moniker to a "T." He is not and has never been anything but "elite," being a scion of wealth who inherited his money, a beneficiary of nepotism who never had to apply to a job outside of his father's company, and literally has golden toilets in his own bathrooms.

I would agree Trump failed executing most of his promises. And he is no doubt a defective individual having bad morals.

But he is NOT part of the ruling elite of the US. They obviously hate him.

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha

Sure, the Koch brothers have (somewhat) somewhat abandoned him for those they think are more electable. But the Kochs are not people who fail to hedge their bets.

I'm not certain anyone limited the 'elite' who own Trump to rich people in the USA. I'm thinking that the Russians, North Koreans, Saudis and Chinese have or are getting their money's worth. Or think they will do. Maybe not the Chinese but...

 

[TSwizzle]

Immigration is pretty high right now on the south border. It isn't a flood, but it is high enough border communities need our support. So do the cities that are running out of vacancy. What these places don't need is alt-right xenophobic angst.

Speaker Johnson wants to close the border.

Mexico is not an invading Hunnic tribe, they are an allied nation that has risked a lot to side with us over the last many decades. Republican politicians are traitorous turncoats, who abuse our alliances but pose for smiling photo ops with foreign dictators snd conquerors; that's your threat from within. Not poor people trying to cross a river to see their family.

Like Biden and Newsom when they met with Xi Jinping?

And yet the GOP denied the Biden requested increase in funding for border security.....

I don't see what that has to do with Brandon and Newsom meeting with the Chinese dictator.

It's almost as though they aren't sincere.

As sincere as the sanctuary city mayors of Chicago and New York?

 

[ZiprHead]

I don't see what that has to do with Brandon and Newsom meeting with the Chinese dictator.

I don't see what them meeting Xi has to do with anything in this thread. And also, Trump met with Xi and famously "fell in love".