Trump confirms plan to declare national emergency and use military for deportations

[Derec]

Constantinople fell in 1453, but it took them almost half a millennium to change the official English-language name. (Though just as Thais refer to their capital as 'Krung Thep' rather than 'Bangkok',

They probably just don't want to deal with the obvious ladyboy jokes.

My subscription to the Bigots and other Idiots newsletter has lapsed.)

You know, calling everybody who disagrees with you an "idiot" or a "bigot" is getting tiresome.
And I only brought Turkic western invasion to show that the "land back" left is very selective in what ancient conquests they condemn (anything to do with people of European descent) and which they are fine with (pretty much every other people). If New York is on "stolen land", then so is Istanbul.

 

[bilby]

A caliphate would be about as bad as what The Felon is going for. Moderate Islam is fine, radical Islam is not.

A caliphate would be much worse. The mass migrants tend to come from areas where radical Islam is predominant such as Afghanistan.

Of course they do. Because those are the places thag people want to get away from.

The idea that they are therefore likely to want to establish radical Islam in their new homes is bizarrely broken logic.

Most of the Jewish migrants arriving in America (or trying to get to America) in the early 1930s were from places where Nazism was rampant. "We should not allow them in, in case they try to establish Nazism in America", would have be an incredibly stupid and illogical position to take back then. Even though it would have been possible to find examples of German Jews who were fans of Nazism.

But it's the exact argument you are making now about Afghan refugees and radical Islam.

 

[laughing dog]

Sending anyone back to Haiti - a perfect example of a violent, dangerous shithole - should be considered a crime against human decency.

Anyone? Even those who have e.g. committed violent crimes on US soil?

Yes.

The Haitians in the USA under this protected status as a group are productive members of their communities that posed no real threats or problems until some bigot spread a vicious lie that ignited a fire under white nationalist assholes.

The "they are eating the pets" line was a lie. That does not mean that there aren't problems with the concept of turning a temporary protected status into a vehicle for large-scale permanent migration.
Just like there is a problem into turning the asylum system into a vehicle for large-scale economic migration.
[/QUOTE] It doesn’t mean there are problems in your straw man. The point was about the Haitians not some imaginary bogeymen.

 

[Derec]

Of course they do. Because those are the places thag people want to get away from.

But why do they want to get away? For most it is the money. They want to get to places like Germoney because they have the best economic prospects there. But that does not mean they like western societies or culture. That's why they start demanding a caliphate in Hamburg and protest against pubs in London.
And even those that want to get away because of the Taliban could be Islamists of a different franchise such as Shia. Almost all Afghans support Sharia for example.

So even if there is a selection against Sharia among those migrating to US, Europe or Australia, that still could easily mean that 2/3 or 3/4 support Sharia. Which is why it is important that any prospective immigrants be carefully vetted, and not let in just because they showed up at the border or on a boat off the shores of Turkey or North Africa.

The idea that they are therefore likely to want to establish radical Islam in their new homes is bizarrely broken logic.

It is not. Your logic, that all Afghans must be migrating because they reject Islamism and therefore they should all be let in is bizarrely broken. I am not saying keep them all out. I am saying vet them for extremism.

Most of the Jewish migrants arriving in America (or trying to get to America) in the early 1930s were from places where Nazism was rampant. "We should not allow them in, in case they try to establish Nazism in America", would have be an incredibly stupid and illogical position to take back then. Even though it would have been possible to find examples of German Jews who were fans of Nazism.

But these migrants are not some minority religion in Afghanistan. They are Muslims, as are almost all other Afghans. So Christian Germans would be a better analogy (and just like Sunni and Shia Islam, there is Catholic and Lutheran Christianity in Germany). Were all Germans Nazis? Of course not? Should migrants from Germany have been accepted just because they showed up with no vetting for extremist ideologies such as Nazism and Communism? Should furthermore unlimited numbers of them have been admitted no matter how many show up at the birder demanding to be let in? Of course not! And yet you demand that for Afghans.

And German culture is part of the West, and is therefore much more compatible with cultures of the US and the rest of Europe. Afghan culture is very different and in many ways incompatible. Integration for Afghans into western societies is thus far more challenging (especially if they do not like western culture). When the numbers are large this has the added danger that it will lead to parallel societies.

But it's the exact argument you are making now about Afghan refugees and radical Islam.

Afghanistan has a very different culture than Germany. And I am not even saying to not let anybody in from Afghanistan. But we (Europe, Australia and US alike) should vet prospective immigrants. And realize that because so many Afghans are Islamists, there will be a large rejection rate.

 

[bilby]

Your logic, that all Afghans must be migrating because they reject Islamism and therefore they should all be let in is bizarrely broken.

That's not my logic.

Should furthermore unlimited numbers of them have been admitted no matter how many show up at the birder demanding to be let in? Of course not! And yet you demand that for Afghans.

Do I? Quote me.

I am demanding nothing.

I am pointing out that you are probably wrong, and giving sound reasons why you probably are.

I haven't demanded jack-shit.