Trump Will Likely Win

[Derec]

Why is the Michigan vote "incredibly close"?

Because Michigan is a purple state. Many people who lean Democratic, many who lean Republican. And most of them will vote their party regardless of the flaws of the candidate.
The game is either to increase your side's turnout relative to the other side, or to peel off some people who are leaning in neither party's direction.

I am ideologically in the latter group - I do not have a political home. However, I have voted for Dems in recent elections because Rs have become quite insane. Doesn't mean that I will not criticize Dems when they are wrong though.

 

[Derec]

With regard to why men are moving out drifting away from the Democrat party, is it really such a mystery? I don't think its so much that they love Trump (although that's certainly the case for some), but they are routinely dismissed and insulted by those on the left. Check the progressive lefty ladies on The View recently:

Exactly. Especially for white men. The Left has been calling us "oppressors" for decades.

 

[Derec]

The Red-ward lurch was especially sharp in Pennsylvania.

She really should have taken Josh instead of the Knucklehead.

 

[TSwizzle]

I found another article although I'm on my way out in five minutes, so I can't share it now. Young males, both white and minorities said things about Harris, like for example, "I can't have a president who doesn't have a penis" or "A woman isn't going to tell me what to do". WFT is wrong with these men? So yea. Men, brainwashed Trump cult members and stupid people of all genders are the problem. You don't have to love Harris to vote for her and it's not necessary to have a penis to be able to govern.

It must be so frustrating for you when the plebs don’t vote the way they are supposed to.

 

[Politesse]

Why is the Michigan vote "incredibly close"?

Because Michigan is a purple state. Many people who lean Democratic, many who lean Republican. And most of them will vote their party regardless of the flaws of the candidate.
The game is either to increase your side's turnout relative to the other side, or to peel off some people who are leaning in neither party's direction.

I am ideologically in the latter group - I do not have a political home. However, I have voted for Dems in recent elections because Rs have become quite insane. Doesn't mean that I will not criticize Dems when they are wrong though.

Michigan is not a "purple state" in some intrinsic way, it's "purple" because it's citizens are in kind of a complicated position relative to their nation's party system, with neither party clearly representing the complex interests of a state largely dependent on two gargantuan industries and charged with the stewardship of vast stretches of resource-rich wildlands, several criticla shipping routes, and swathes of extremely marginal farmland, all of which has been sustained in part by successive immigrant waves from many other parts of the world and the incomplete historical disenfranchisement of the Anishnaabe peoples.

But more importantly, It is not purple because a small portion Palestinian-Americans in the state who previously voted for Biden are now hesitant to vote for Harris. Those voters who reconsidered their ideological commitments because of the events in Gaza were a tiny fraction of an already tiny minority, whose interests and concerns are almost never prioritized in state politics, let alone the national theater. They have no power on their own to either save or doom Michiganders as a whole just because the non-Palestinian constituencies in their state have argued themselves into a standstill, nor if they did, would it be their responsibility to save either state or nation at cost to themselves.

 

[Politesse]

The hell? No, these morons aren't voting for Trump because of their genetics, they're voting for Trump because they're neo-fascist and/or evangelical fools who've let themselves be pandered to by a demagogue. Their gender and skin color do not excuse their idiocy and short-sightedness, nor will it protect them from the consequences.

If it isn't about genetics, why are you blaming white men specifically? This is what you wrote.

Or is it because middle class white males almost to a man are loyal to a fascist demagogue?

Emphasis added. Quite racist and sexist.

No, that's what you wrote. I disagreed and still do.

 

[thebeave]

With regard to why men are moving out drifting away from the Democrat party, is it really such a mystery? I don't think its so much that they love Trump (although that's certainly the case for some), but they are routinely dismissed and insulted by those on the left. Check the progressive lefty ladies on The View recently:

Exactly. Especially for white men. The Left has been calling us "oppressors" for decades.

Well, to be more exact, it should be "..especially for straight white men". Apparently, gay men are OK because they like to gossip with women and help accessorize their outfits. At least according to The View "ladies".

 

[TomC]

Apparently, gay men are OK because they like to gossip with women and help accessorize their outfits.

Grrrrrr
Tom

 

[thebeave]

Apparently, gay men are OK because they like to gossip with women and help accessorize their outfits.

Grrrrrr
Tom

That's not your thing, Tom? I thought all you poofs liked that stuff.

 

[Axulus]

Why? Why is it so close?

^ This.

Even if Harris wins, the fact that it was ever even vaguely in question, given her opponent, has brought eternal shame upon the United States of America.

It's a similar process on why people fall for cults, religions in general, believe in conspiracies, etc. This is a human problem, not a USA problem. People are gullible as fuck when they lose trust and then get indoctrinated easily and stay stuck for a long time, if they ever get out of it.

Autocratic, narcissistic personalities tap in to these people's insecurities and sucker them in quite easily.

 

[Spacetime Inhabitant]

Democrats will blame literally anyone but themselves for failing to win elections. Jill Stein? Seriously? If the election is close enough that 200 votes for Jill Stein can tip the entire national vote, our problem runs much, MUCH deeper than Jill Stein.

But no. Never mind that damn near half the country voted for the Trump, the "real" problem is minorities. Fucking typical attitude.

To quote Shakespeare: "Men at some time are masters of their fates: The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, But in ourselves". The problem isn't the Democrats nor minorities, but a large sector of voters/people. With the way American voting works, the Democrats are right to blame Jill Stein and any minority voter if they hand the election to Trump.

Democrats will blame literally anyone but themselves for failing to win elections. Jill Stein? Seriously? If the election is close enough that 200 votes for Jill Stein can tip the entire national vote, our problem runs much, MUCH deeper than Jill Stein.

But no. Never mind that damn near half the country voted for the Trump, the "real" problem is minorities. Fucking typical attitude.

Nobody ever said that, but it is pretty sad that an increased percentage of minority males would vote for Trump because they think he's macho and/or because they are sexist, when Trump is obviously a hateful racist. Low information voters for sure. It's some of the younger minority men, not the older ones. They have more sense.

It is also pretty disgusting that the MAGA Republican leaders are helping Stein in order to peal votes away from Harris. Too bad people are so easily manipulated when we have two choices for president, whether you like it or not.

This election sadly will be very close so every vote is important. And, people who will vote for Stein because of Israel or because Harris isn't liberal enough are fucking idiots. They are like the Bernie Bros who supported Trump in 2016 to teach the Dems a lesson. How did that work out? Trump will be much worse when it comes to Israel and pretty much everything else, and the asshole Nettie wants Trump to win. Nettie is as bad as Putin. WTF do you think we can do to stop either of those two?

With regard to why men are moving out drifting away from the Democrat party, is it really such a mystery? I don't think its so much that they love Trump (although that's certainly the case for some), but they are routinely dismissed and insulted by those on the left. Check the progressive lefty ladies on The View recently:



A question I hear a lot here and elsewhere about male, working class Trump voters, is (paraphrasing) "Why would they vote for Trump? Don't they know he hates them and is just in it for himself?" Well, its not like the alternative is rolling out the red carpet for them.

So, these manly men take notice of 'The View'? I am not that familiar with 'The View' but are they really progressive and "lefty" (whatever that means)? So, "the alternative" is not pandering to them , I suppose by not making unrealistic promises like making them all millionaires.

Reminds me of the second time in my life when I lost the right to marry whom I choose, a ballot proposition having delegalized gay marriage in my state, and all the national newspapers could talk about was how the "Black vote" had fucked things up for us, because in that community, 58% of voters had supported the measure. Wow, 8% of %10, really? It was a blatant diversion, a transparent attempt to both set white gays and straight blacks against one another, and erase the voices of black gay people altogether. I guess we just imagined James Baldwin? Jesus Christ. Clean your own house before hunting around to find some tiny demographic to blame the failures of democracy on.

"All the national newspapers"; so do you mean centre-right media, the same media who until very recently has ignored reporting all or even any of Trump's gaffes and lies? Who benefits from setting minority groups against each other - not the Democrats or normal people, but the Republicans and their media and business mates, so who has the motivation (and means) to do this?

 

[Swammerdami]

One question I have is: Do people vote the same way they would if they believed their vote would be decisive? Pulling the lever for candidate X instead of Y may be an emotional experience, but some of those voters might actually prefer a victory by Y. (Voting like that might seem stupid, but stupidity is the dominant force in present-day American politics.)

It is a real mystery how Trump attracts as much support as he does. Even if Harris were to win in a 55-45 "landslide" we would be aghast that 45% of the nation joined the lunatic fringe.

WHY? We can understand billionaires and top GOP politicians jumping on the lunacy bus -- they hope to increase their wealth and power. But how can one explain the common man voting in favor of chaos and corruption?

Intellectual thought certainly plays little or no role:

. . . Again, how will Trumps plan decrease inflation? I’d love to hear from my buddies who are to my right on this forum how increasing stimulus (budget deficit); fighting labor market; and increasing sales tax will decrease inflation?

The same way the "Inflation Reduction Act" did. Magic!

Was it too soon to pass the baton to a woman?

. . . Young males, both white and minorities said things about Harris, like for example, "I can't have a president who doesn't have a penis" or "A woman isn't going to tell me what to do". WFT is wrong with these men? So yea. Men, brainwashed Trump cult members and stupid people of all genders are the problem. You don't have to love Harris to vote for her and it's not necessary to have a penis to be able to govern.

Even many women tell us they think the job requires a penis.

But I think a major reason for pro-Trump enthusiasm is what I reported several months ago:

Trump voters want the chaos, they want the anger ... they want the danger ... they want a TV show, Trump is fun!

A recent poll by CBS News and Yougov found that 82% of Republican registered voters agree with the statement

"Immigrants are poisoning the blood of our country."​

I saw this poll result in a YouTube which makes interesting points. People voted for Trump in 2016 because they felt the culture "looked down on them." This has become self-fulfilling prophecy as rational observers now indeed DO look down on Trump supporters. "Every day is a day of grievance." This pathology preceded Trump: In 2008 Sarah Palin -- the proto-Trump -- drew larger crowds than John McCain. "Removing Donald Trump from the equation is not going to solve the problem."

Despite that the GOP had large political power in 2016, many had "an itching feeling of inferiority and sense of being outsiders", they needed to express their dissatisfaction with the culture. There's no reasoning with Trump supporters now; they "want the chaos, they want the anger ... they want the danger ... they want a TV show, Trump is fun... Biden is boring"

 

[bilby]

Why? Why is it so close?

^ This.

Even if Harris wins, the fact that it was ever even vaguely in question, given her opponent, has brought eternal shame upon the United States of America.

It's a similar process on why people fall for cults, religions in general, believe in conspiracies, etc. This is a human problem, not a USA problem.

Sure. It was also a human problem when fascists came to power in Italy, Spain, Portugal and Germany.

And all four of those countries now have to live with their shameful past (with the latter rightly coming in for particular shame).

People are gullible as fuck when they lose trust and then get indoctrinated easily and stay stuck for a long time, if they ever get out of it.

Autocratic, narcissistic personalities tap in to these people's insecurities and sucker them in quite easily.

Yup. But most countries in the developed world don't put them in charge. Or even let them get close to it.

And those that do are rightly shamed for it. Now including the USA, who until recently were seen as a bastion of freedom and human rights.

Like any powerful nation, the US has done despicable things; But until now they had the good grace to be embarrassed about those things. For a nation to revel in evil, is truly a shameful sight - and thanks to the Tea Party and Donald J Trump, the USA has managed to join the ranks of this ignominy.

But hey, at least you owned the libs.

 

[bilby]

With the way American voting works...

Point of information: American voting doesn't work.

 

[Gospel]

With regard to why men are moving out drifting away from the Democrat party, is it really such a mystery? I don't think its so much that they love Trump (although that's certainly the case for some), but they are routinely dismissed and insulted by those on the left. Check the progressive lefty ladies on The View recently:

Exactly. Especially for white men. The Left has been calling us "oppressors" for decades.

Well, if the shoe fits, right? I mean, the wage gap still exists, voter suppression efforts have been ramping up, and the justice system’s had a two-tiered approach for years. And let's not forget the struggles for equal rights for women and minorities. Maybe instead of feeling offended, it’s time to re-lace those oppressor shoes and walk a mile in someone else's.

 

[Gospel]

WHY? We can understand billionaires and top GOP politicians jumping on the lunacy bus -- they hope to increase their wealth and power. But how can one explain the common man voting in favor of chaos and corruption?

Billionaire & millionaire donors have mastered the art of purchasing influence, from crafting marketing campaigns and controlling social media bubbles supported by profit-driven news outlets like Fox. Add the NRA and Religious organizations into the mix, and you've got a well-oiled machine designed to keep voters aligned—whether they realize it or not.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

With regard to why men are moving out drifting away from the Democrat party, is it really such a mystery? I don't think its so much that they love Trump (although that's certainly the case for some), but they are routinely dismissed and insulted by those on the left. Check the progressive lefty ladies on The View recently:

Exactly. Especially for white men. The Left has been calling us "oppressors" for decades.

Well, to be more exact, it should be "..especially for straight white men". Apparently, gay men are OK because they like to gossip with women and help accessorize their outfits. At least according to The View "ladies".

As a straight white man, I wasn't aware I was supposed to be such a pussy. Must have missed that meeting.

Regardless, decades ago:

• Men voted for W Bush 54 to 43 (+11) over Gore
• Men voted for Clinton 41 to 38 (+3) over HW Bush
• Men voted for HW Bush 58 to 42 (+16) over Dukakis

More recently, Trump beat Clinton among men 52 to 41. Trump beat Biden 53 to 45. Are things that much different?

 

[Colonel Sanders]

With regard to why men are moving out drifting away from the Democrat party, is it really such a mystery? I don't think its so much that they love Trump (although that's certainly the case for some), but they are routinely dismissed and insulted by those on the left. Check the progressive lefty ladies on The View recently:

Exactly. Especially for white men. The Left has been calling us "oppressors" for decades.

When I think of this issue, I think of the word "privileged."

If you want to alienate tens of millions of working white people, particularly young men, then tell them that they're privileged. Tell them when they're struggling to pay bills and hoping they don't get evicted that they're "privileged." Ridicule them while they feel the despair of working two jobs and oh, while you're at it, tell them it's their fault that non-white people are struggling and that they're racist for feeling hopeless.

I know this because I was there myself. Had an entire political party had laughed at me for working a backbreaking blue collar job while my home went into foreclosure, my response to that would be obvious.

This is just one of the many catastrophic failures the Dems have committed over the last 20+ years. The only reason I don't engage in many criticisms of my political side of the spectrum is because the threat to our democracy is very real, so other issues are on the back burner.

 

[pood]

With regard to why men are moving out drifting away from the Democrat party, is it really such a mystery? I don't think its so much that they love Trump (although that's certainly the case for some), but they are routinely dismissed and insulted by those on the left. Check the progressive lefty ladies on The View recently:

Exactly. Especially for white men. The Left has been calling us "oppressors" for decades.

When I think of this issue, I think of the word "privileged."

If you want to alienate tens of millions of working white people, particularly young men, then tell them that they're privileged. Tell them when they're struggling to pay bills and hoping they don't get evicted that they're "privileged." Ridicule them while they feel the despair of working two jobs and oh, while you're at it, tell them it's their fault that non-white people are struggling and that they're racist for feeling hopeless.

I know this because I was there myself. Had an entire political party had laughed at me for working a backbreaking blue collar job while my home went into foreclosure, my response to that would be obvious.

This is just one of the many catastrophic failures the Dems have committed over the last 20+ years. The only reason I don't engage in many criticisms of my political side of the spectrum is because the threat to our democracy is very real, so other issues are on the back burner.

Is any of this really true, though? For example, has anybody in the Democratic Party ever told white working people that they are “racist for feeling hopeless”? I don’t think so. Maybe somehow they hear that, but it’s not what is being said.

As for the “privileged” bit, it’s just a fact that white people, especially white men, are, and have been, privileged, over others. It doesn’t mean white people don’t struggle, too, but what the Democrats should be pushing for is the rainbow coalition of working-class whites and people of color, as conceived by Jesse Jackson. I think the Dems went off the rails with Clinton and the “New Democrats” who became spear carriers a new order of globalism is in which American jobs were offshored. Obama was another New Democrat. The Dems have to some extend, under Biden, tried to return to their New Deal roots, which attracted huge working-class support among people of all colors, and maybe (or maybe not) that will accelerate under Harris. But it should always be kept in mind that the drift of the white working class and especially the once solidly Democratic South away from Democrats began in 1964, when the Civil Rights Act was passed. The Democrats were still, back then, in full New Deal mode, and yet working-class whites began voting for Republicans. The conclusion we can draw from that, it seems to me, is sadly obvious.

 

[scombrid]

WHY? We can understand billionaires and top GOP politicians jumping on the lunacy bus -- they hope to increase their wealth and power. But how can one explain the common man voting in favor of chaos and corruption?

Billionaire & millionaire donors have mastered the art of purchasing influence, from crafting marketing campaigns and controlling social media bubbles supported by profit-driven news outlets like Fox. Add the NRA and Religious organizations into the mix, and you've got a well-oiled machine designed to keep voters aligned—whether they realize it or not.

Musk funded PACs are targeting some folks on snapchat with claims that Harris is going to ban menthol cigarettes. Musk funded PACs are sending add to Muslims claiming that Harris stands with Israel unconditionally. Musk funded PACs are sending ads to jews claiming that Harris is anti-jew and aligned with Palestine.