Trump Will Likely Win

[Shadowy Man]

It'd been great if the people that committed these crimes were as stupid as the Capital Building invaders were, and posted self-incriminating evidence on the web to make it possible to convict them all of their crimes. But not all criminals are that stupid.

I guess Covid wasn’t the only good reason they should have been wearing masks.

 

[Gospel]

The difference between these criminals is that one group knowingly breaks the law (regardless of their reasons), while the other was a herd of clueless sheep, convinced their shepherd had their best interests at heart.

 

[Derec]

They seem to have little problem against unarmed individuals when they feel scared of a mentally disturbed person or someone with a knife or someone reaching for their registration.

Police are human. They make mistakes. That said, instances of "someone reaching for their registration" or similar getting shot are very rare. Armed and/or mentally disturbed people can be dangerous, however, so I do not see why you are lumping these two very different scenarios together.

 

[Derec]

Yet Another whataboutism to shift the goalposts to minimize the attempted insurrection.

Not minimizing 1/6. Those guilty should be prosecucted. But the punishment should fit the crime. Somebody merely trespassing at the Capitol should not get a longer sentence that the #BLM arsonists who burned down a Wendy's in Atlanta and got probation. Most of the 2020 insurrectionists were not prosecuted at all, and even those who did mostly got off with light sentences compared to what they did.

The mainstream media, as well as most posters on here, are minimizing the 2020 insurrection that caused billions of property damage in many cities, and cost several lives.

 

[Derec]

Everyone always has the right to violence.

Not in a civilized society.

The idea is to make it undesirable to exercise that right.

Unless it is self-defense, violence is generally a crime, which means it's not a right. That makes it undesirable (if the authorities prosecute - something that has been sorely lacking during the 2020 insurrection).

That's not actually relevant to my post, which describes the general case.

General case of excusing political violence?

In this context, the definition should be obvious - "not unpopular enough to incite a successful violent uprising".

A minority can engage in a "successful violent uprising". Castro and his minions did not take over Cuba because they were popular, but because they were ruthlessly violent.

America isn't much of a democracy.
Nor is Australia.

What country would be "much of a democracy" as far as you are concerned?
Do you only consider direct democracy "much of a democracy"?

No. They always have that right, and need not ask permission from anyone.

A very disturbing point of view. So I guess as far as you are concerned, January 6ers did nothing wrong either? Or do you apply this only to left-wing insurrectionists?

 

[Derec]

Incredibly violent? There was likely some left-wing political violence, but there was also racially based violence, and in the end there was likely more thuggish, lets burn and steal stuff shit that wasn't done for anything but indulgence.

There was a lot of left-wing violence. Example the two #BLM lawyers who torched a NYPD vehicle and got a sweetheart deal.

And there were militant right-wingers who burned stuff too, like the courthouse in Nashville.

People on the left love to pretend that every white rioter was a right-winger when in reality there are many white #BLM and Antifa supporters.
What evidence do you have that this Wesley Somers was a "right winger"? Are you just assuming this because of the color of his skin?
Note that in an article describing his arrest (btw, is Deadpool real popular with right wingers specifically?) also shows photo of unmasked black man and woman smashing windows of that courthouse. So it's much more liekly that Somers was a #BLM supporter than a right winger.

They are all crimes, but this "incredibly violent" thing... no, it wasn't incredibly violent.

Yes, it was. There were even murders.

There was violence, and some isolated areas suffered greatly. But it wasn't common and it had many motives.

It was widespread, with many cities affected. In some, such as Minneapolis, Seattle, and Atlanta, the insurrectionists occupied territory for weeks.

It'd been great if the people that committed these crimes were as stupid as the Capital Building invaders were, and posted self-incriminating evidence on the web to make it possible to convict them all of their crimes. But not all criminals are that stupid.

Many were identified, but not prosecuted. For example, Warlord Raz, who organized the armed takeover of Capitol Hill in Seattle, was never charged.

The Wendy's arsonists were identified, but got probation.
The arsonist lawyers in NYC got a year each.
The woman, Urooj Rahman, tried to conceal her identity (with a Palestinian shawl, let it be noted), I guess, but it did not work.

She also has a terrible taste in beer.

Others did not even try.

I do not think this guy was ever prosecuted by Fulton County.

You say the 2020 insurrection was not very violent, but it was far more violent than 1/6. And yet the guilty faced far less punishment.

 

[Derec]

The difference between these criminals is that one group knowingly breaks the law (regardless of their reasons),

And know full well that the local left-wing prosecutors will have their backs. What was less predictable was that the new attorney general Merrick Garland had their backs as well.

 

[laughing dog]

Yet Another whataboutism to shift the goalposts to minimize the attempted insurrection.

Not minimizing 1/6. Those guilty should be prosecucted. But…

There you go again, minimizing the insurrection with yet another “whataboutism “ about property crime.

 

[Ford]

Yet Another whataboutism to shift the goalposts to minimize the attempted insurrection.

Not minimizing 1/6. Those guilty should be prosecucted. But…

There you go again, minimizing the insurrection with yet another “whataboutism “ about property crime.

"Yeah, breaking into the Capitol, beating cops and attempting to overthrow our democracy is bad, but whaddabout the blacks?!"

 

[Shadowy Man]

They seem to have little problem against unarmed individuals when they feel scared of a mentally disturbed person or someone with a knife or someone reaching for their registration.

Police are human. They make mistakes. That said, instances of "someone reaching for their registration" or similar getting shot are very rare. Armed and/or mentally disturbed people can be dangerous, however, so I do not see why you are lumping these two very different scenarios together.

I'm just saying that I was surprised that police sometimes feel okay using lethal power in instances that don't merit it (and many are not what I would consider 'mistakes' per se), but did not use it in instances where it was clearly merited.

 

[Derec]

There you go again, minimizing the insurrection with yet another “whataboutism “ about property crime.

It's not "whataboutism", it's putting things in perspective through comparison.

And while the 2020 Insurrection did cause a lot of property damage, they did far more than that. There were murders (including of an eight year old girl in Atlanta) and accidental deaths associated with the insurrections. City blocks were occupied for an extended time using barricades manned by armed combatants.
But to you, none of that matters. To you, these were just "peaceful racial justice protests". You are the one minimizing, not I.

 

[Derec]

but whaddabout the blacks?!"

According to the Left, they can do no wrong, apparently. Because you and your Ilk always keep excusing black racial violence.

Note also that there are many white people involved with left-wing violence in 2020. There are a lot of white #BLM and Antifa supporters, especially in mostly white cities.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Yet Another whataboutism to shift the goalposts to minimize the attempted insurrection.

Not minimizing 1/6. Those guilty should be prosecucted. But the punishment should fit the crime. Somebody merely trespassing at the Capitol should not get a longer sentence that the #BLM arsonists who burned down a Wendy's in Atlanta and got probation.

Which particular person who only got arrested for trespassing (i.e., not assaulting police officers or other greater crimes) got too long a sentence would you say?

According to this article (emphasis mine):

277 defendants were sentenced to periods of incarceration, with longer prison terms for those who engaged in violence or threats. So far, the median prison sentence for the Jan. 6 rioters is 60 days, according to TIME’s calculation of the public records. An additional 113 rioters have been sentenced to periods of home detention, while most sentences have included fines, community service and probation for low-level offenses like illegally parading or demonstrating in the Capitol, which is a misdemeanor.

So, it would be useful to bear in mind specific examples. Because the longest sentences went to those who were also convicted of such crimes as seditious conspiracy and assaulting police officers.

 

[laughing dog]

There you go again, minimizing the insurrection with yet another “whataboutism “ about property crime.

It's not "whataboutism", it's putting things in perspective through comparison.

Of course it is a whataboutism. Your intent is irrelevant.

And while the 2020 Insurrection did cause a lot of property damage, they did far more than that. There were murders (including of an eight year old girl in Atlanta) and accidental deaths associated with the insurrections. City blocks were occupied for an extended time using barricades manned by armed combatants.
But to you, none of that matters. To you, these were just "peaceful racial justice protests". You are the one minimizing, not I.

I literally have no idea what insurrections are you going on about in yet another “ whataboutism”. But kudos in ending with a straw man even though you forgot “ your ilk” in it.