Trump Will Likely Win

[Jimmy Higgins]

More on Michigan Muslims possibly delivering the state to Trump (despite his Muslim ban).
Turns out that it is not just the Gaza war that makes Trump attractive to Muslims - it is also his social conservatism.

A Muslim Mayor Endorses Trump, and a City of Immigrants Finds Itself Undone

Amer Ghalib has made a lot of national news as the leader of a small, Midwestern city.
His election in 2021 as mayor of Hamtramck, Mich., was itself a headline. Mr. Ghalib, who is from Yemen, became the first Arab American and first Muslim to govern the city. And he was working with what was believed to be the first all-Muslim City Council in the country.
Two years later, Mr. Ghalib created another stir when he and other socially conservative Muslims banned the L.G.B.T.Q. Pride flag from publicly owned flagpoles, alarming liberals who said the move was discriminatory and harmful to the city’s welcoming reputation.
Their fears only heightened last month, after Mr. Ghalib endorsed Donald J. Trump, who as president had ushered in what is known as the Muslim ban, blocking immigrants from seven majority-Muslim nations, including Mr. Ghalib’s home country. Adding to the tensions was a visit by Mr. Trump, who hoped the mayor’s support could peel off a meaningful number of Muslim voters in Michigan, a swing state.
Explaining his support, Mr. Ghalib pointed to a distaste for liberal social views, anger at President Biden’s support of Israel and a belief that Mr. Trump will end the conflict in the Middle East.

And yet the so-called "liberals" are enamored of migration from the third world, even though those from there usually hold very illiberal positions.

I don't hate on groups of people... other than NY Jets fans who are all reprehensible people... as that is bigotry. I can not like what individuals stand for, but I'm not going to hate a group of people because a number of them have certain beliefs. You don't seem to get that. Also, you underestimate the power of materialism and how America has a tendency to mellow extremism... or at least used to.

In Hamtramck (pronounced “ham-tram-ick”), many longtime liberal residents, including members of the L.G.B.T.Q. community, say they were dejected.
Over the years, they had actively encouraged the city of 30,000 residents, just north of downtown Detroit, to welcome immigrants. When Muslims won a majority of seats in the six-member City Council in 2015, they cheered the change as a rebuke to the anti-immigrant rhetoric used by Mr. Trump.
They had not expected this outcome.

Yes, who could ever have expected this outcome. They cheered the face-eating leopards taking over the city and now they are all surprised-Pikachu-face at the prospect of their their faces get eaten.

Are we allowed to kick the Republicans out too because of their beliefs?

 

[Shadowy Man]

Looking at Derec’s comparisons it seems that pleading guilty leads to substantially less strict outcomes than being convicted by a jury.

It’s not trivial to compare the different outcomes for different defendants accused of different crimes in different jurisdictions with different judges and different processes (i.e., jury trials versus guilty pleas).

 

[Derec]

I don't hate on groups of people... other than NY Jets fans who are all reprehensible people... as that is bigotry.

I do not hate on groups of people either. But saying that we should be selective about immigration is not hatred. It's not bigotry.
Neither is pointing out that the people who cheered Muslims taking over their city are now shocked that these Muslims hold backward Muslim views.

'

I can not like what individuals stand for, but I'm not going to hate a group of people because a number of them have certain beliefs.

Again, not hate, just realism. I do not say block all Muslims from immigrating, but we should be more selective and not take in Islamists.

You don't seem to get that.

No, you don't seem to get that immigration is not always good. And an American city being taken over by illiberal Muslims is never a good thing, even if some self-described "liberals" have been cheering it on.

Also, you underestimate the power of materialism and how America has a tendency to mellow extremism... or at least used to.

Doesn't always work. Often you just get a rich extremist. Especially with Muslims. How do you think Hamas et al get funded? A lot of it is through bogus charities in the West.

Are we allowed to kick the Republicans out too because of their beliefs?

So I guess you do hate some groups of people ...

But to take your comment with more seriousness than it deserves, no, kicking people out who are already established is not possible. Nor is it desirable to get rid of one major political party - one party systems are neither free nor democratic.
That does not mean we should be indiscriminate when it comes to immigration. It will be, for example, a colossal mistake to let in migrants from Gaza, as Biden has suggested.
Biden considers allowing some Palestinians from Gaza to come to the U.S. as refugees

 

[Derec]

Looking at Derec’s comparisons it seems that pleading guilty leads to substantially less strict outcomes than being convicted by a jury.

Pleading guilty can get one a lesser sentence, but not to the extent that you get no jail time or maybe a year for arson. Unless you are a leftist rioter, of course.

It’s not trivial to compare the different outcomes for different defendants accused of different crimes in different jurisdictions with different judges and different processes (i.e., jury trials versus guilty pleas).

The NYC case was a federal case because the leftist Brooklyn DA would not even consider prosecuting the duo who torched a NYPD vehicle. So that is very much comparable to the "throw the book at them" treatment for 1/6 rioters.

I do not see how you can with a straight face claim that there was no double standard in how 2020 rioters and 1/6 rioters have been treated.

 

[Derec]

Is everyone in Atlanta this triggered by black people?

I see you still do not understand the meaning of the word "triggered". And what "black people" are you talking about? You have not quoted anything, and the first of my posts above yours did not mention black people at all.

So what are you rambling about now, Elixir?

 

[Derec]

this link says he was convicted by a jury (which means no plea deal) on eight charges, not just trespassing, and faced up to 20 years.

He did not assault anybody. He did not burn anything down. And yet he got 4 years.

Compare that to Urooj Rahman and Colinford Mattis who made and distributed incendiary devices (Molotov cocktails) and torched a NYPD vehicle. They faced up to life in prison, but got a mere year. Note that they are connected to the Democratic Party machine. They were bailed out by a former Obama administration official.
Ex-analyst under Obama guarantees bail for alleged bomb-throwing lawyer

 

[TomC]

He did not assault anybody. He did not burn anything down. And yet he got 4 years.

The guy assaulted the foundations of my country! He tried to help overthrow the government of the USA.

In most places, and for most of history, he'd have just been executed on the spot. He's lucky he lives in a country where that's not allowed. Too bad he is so Trump addled to realize that some of us would be fine putting him in front of a firing squad. That's it's only because of the government that is protecting him that he's still alive and that's the same goddam government that he was trying to destroy!
Tom

 

[laughing dog]

this link says he was convicted by a jury (which means no plea deal) on eight charges, not just trespassing, and faced up to 20 years.

He did not assault anybody. He did not burn anything down. And yet he got 4 years.

Compare that to Urooj Rahman and Colinford Mattis who made and distributed incendiary devices (Molotov cocktails) and torched a NYPD vehicle. They faced up to life in prison, but got a mere year. Note that they are connected to the Democratic Party machine. They were bailed out by a former Obama administration official.
Ex-analyst under Obama guarantees bail for alleged bomb-throwing lawyer

So what? Bail just means the oerson is not in jail awaiting trial.

The rest of your response is pointless “whataboutisms” stemming from comparing apples to oranges.

 

[Shadowy Man]

I do not see how you can with a straight face claim that there was no double standard in how 2020 rioters and 1/6 rioters have been treated.

you probably can’t see it because I have not claimed that.

I am merely arguing against this claim you made:

Somebody merely trespassing at the Capitol should not get a longer sentence that [sic] the #BLM arsonists who burned down a Wendy's in Atlanta and got probation.

So I asked you which person who got arrested merely for trespassing got a sentence you think is too long.

The response you gave was someone convicted by a jury of eight crimes who only got 20% of the maximum penalty.

Tell me about those who were “merely trespassing”. And in particular those who may have pled guilty for a lesser sentence. You brought it up, not me.

 

[bilby]

I do not hate on groups of people either. But saying that we should be selective about immigration is not hatred. It's not bigotry.

It is when your country already is selective about immigration, and your purpose is therefore to persuade people to be scared of an unrestricted immigration that doesn't exist, and to imply that all immigrants are scary and dangerous.

And it is even more so when you know that this fearmongering will be directed against people based on their skin colour, and not their immigration status.

Anti-immigrant rhetoric leads to attacks on swarthy people, even if they are multigenerational natural born citizens; While leaving white folks unmolested, even if they were South African citizens working illegally in the US.

 

[Derec]

He did not assault anybody. He did not burn anything down. And yet he got 4 years.

The guy assaulted the foundations of my country! He tried to help overthrow the government of the USA.

Sure. And I do not think he and others should have gotten less time, but that 2020 insurrectionist should have gotten more. Especially for serious crimes like arson.

They might not have attacked the Capitol building during a session of the Congress, but they attacked police stations, courthouses, ICE offices and many, many private businesses. That is also an attack on our country, and in many cities, lasting for months. That should not and must not be excused. We must not pretend that these were merely "protests".

 

[ZiprHead]

I do not hate on groups of people either. But saying that we should be selective about immigration is not hatred. It's not bigotry.

It is when your country already is selective about immigration, and your purpose is therefore to persuade people to be scared of an unrestricted immigration that doesn't exist, and to imply that all immigrants are scary and dangerous.

And it is even more so when you know that this fearmongering will be directed against people based on their skin colour, and not their immigration status.

Anti-immigrant rhetoric leads to attacks on swarthy people, even if they are multigenerational natural born citizens; While leaving white folks unmolested, even if they were South African citizens working illegally in the US.

Hypocrisy, thy name is Musk.

 

[laughing dog]

He did not assault anybody. He did not burn anything down. And yet he got 4 years.

The guy assaulted the foundations of my country! He tried to help overthrow the government of the USA.

Sure. And I do not think he and others should have gotten less time, but that 2020 insurrectionist should have gotten more. Especially for serious crimes like arson.

They might not have attacked the Capitol building during a session of the Congress, but they attacked police stations, courthouses, ICE offices and many, many private businesses. That is also an attack on our country, and in many cities, lasting for months. That should not and must not be excused. We must not pretend that these were merely "protests".

Calling them insurrectionists is truly telling. They were not trying to bring down the federal government or overturn elections. Making that false equivalence is fooling no one.

 

[Spacetime Inhabitant]

That man who was in Pelosi's office may possibly (hypothetically) have been waiting for her to return so that he could kill her.
To the general OP, in any other country Trump wouldn't be running in the election yet alone have any chance of winning. Not even in Turkey or Hungry (or especially in those countries, as he is the equivalent of an opposition leader). Can also add Russia.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

They seem to have little problem against unarmed individuals when they feel scared of a mentally disturbed person or someone with a knife or someone reaching for their registration.

Police are human. They make mistakes. That said, instances of "someone reaching for their registration" or similar getting shot are very rare. Armed and/or mentally disturbed people can be dangerous, however, so I do not see why you are lumping these two very different scenarios together.

And almost all such situations can be avoided by not being confrontational and not doing sudden moves. You get trouble when you force an officer to make a split second decision about what he's seeing.

 

[Elixir]

A young Star cop stopped me as I pulled off the highway and onto our private road. He had me at 61 mph in a 55 zone. I stopped in front of my gate - could have opened it with the remote, and let him see if he wanted to follow me, or even tried to close the gate behind me, but I decided do see WTF the guy wanted. So I just stopped. He got out, came up to the side of the car, but when I took a hand off the wheel to open the window he jumped back, put a hand on his gun and screamed “hands where I can see them!!!”
I rolled my eyes, which seemed piss him off. “Don’t you know what to do when you get stopped?!”
That pissed me off.
“I DON’T GET STOPPED!” I yelled right back at him, and stared him down. I made sure he noticed me scrutinizing his badge and nameplate. That seemed to let the air out of his sails.
Turned out my insurance card was expired - the new one was on my kitchen island.
“Hey” I offered. “You wanna follow me home?” And I pressed the button to open the gate. He looked at the gate, looked at me and started fidgeting. Then “put that card in the car , and you have a good day” as if he had lots to do …
I wonder what would have happened if I was black. The guy was obviously a hair-trigger cowboy.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I don't hate on groups of people... other than NY Jets fans who are all reprehensible people... as that is bigotry.

I do not hate on groups of people either.

ROFLMFAO!!!!

But saying that we should be selective about immigration is not hatred. It's not bigotry.

I must have missed the nuanced "we should be selective about immigration" in your post.

Neither is pointing out that the people who cheered Muslims taking over their city are now shocked that these Muslims hold backward Muslim views.

Backward Muslim views? We've got an old school Catholicism/Christian Dominionism movement in the US, and you are on about one small city and Muslim's and their backwards views? What about SCOTUS justices voting to keep gay sex criminalized? The US is moving is broad direction in the wrong way. And Christians are leading that march.

You don't seem to get that.

No, you don't seem to get that immigration is not always good. And an American city being taken over by illiberal Muslims is never a good thing, even if some self-described "liberals" have been cheering it on.

I find there isn't enough time to worry about small isolated issues, when larger, much more widespread issues are about. I am not obsessed with Muslims, I don't have the time to be.

Also, you underestimate the power of materialism and how America has a tendency to mellow extremism... or at least used to.

Doesn't always work. Often you just get a rich extremist. Especially with Muslims. How do you think Hamas et al get funded? A lot of it is through bogus charities in the West.

Why do you think the Iranian religious hierarchy works so hard to keep the west out of Iran?

Are we allowed to kick the Republicans out too because of their beliefs?

So I guess you do hate some groups of people ...

Yes, NY Jets fans!

But to take your comment with more seriousness than it deserves...

Whatev's.

 

[TomC]

That man who was in Pelosi's office may possibly (hypothetically) have been waiting for her to return so that he could kill her.
To the general OP, in any other country Trump wouldn't be running in the election yet alone have any chance of winning. Not even in Turkey or Hungry (or especially in those countries, as he is the equivalent of an opposition leader). Can also add Russia.

In most places,
Between the insurrection and the treasonous theft of top secret documents Trump would have been publicly executed.
Tom

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Looking at Derec’s comparisons it seems that pleading guilty leads to substantially less strict outcomes than being convicted by a jury.

To be expected. If you would fare as badly in a plea deal as with a jury why would you take the plea?

 

[Shadowy Man]

Looking at Derec’s comparisons it seems that pleading guilty leads to substantially less strict outcomes than being convicted by a jury.

To be expected. If you would fare as badly in a plea deal as with a jury why would you take the plea?

So, it would seem a bad comparison between the outcomes of two cases in which one defendant pled guilty and took a deal and the pled innocent and took it to trial and was found guilty. Right?