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Will Trump finally be indicted in Georgia?

be very interested in Sohy's take on Mr Duncan.
@southernhybrid
Tom
I don't know that much about him, but he's had the courage to stand up against Trump ever since he tried to over turn the election in Georgia.
I'm not a fan of Kemp, although I do respect his willingness to not let Trump interfere with the Georgia election. Kemp has defended our very secure elections, which include a paper ballot that is printed out to review and put in a box. That makes it easy to recount election results.

Kemp is actually pretty good in some areas. He's brought a lot of money into the state and he's attracted EV plants etc. The thing I hate about him is that he's bought into the stupid, hateful culture wars. I've never voted for a Republican and don't plan on ever voting for one. But, we have had a couple of Republican governors who weren't that far to the right. That was prior to this hateful culture war crap.
 
If the case is kicked up to a federal court, which is a strong possibility, it won't actually move the case out of Georgia. Rather it will be moved to a federal court not far away, and the jury will be expanded to include surrounding areas that are more Trump friendly. Fani Willis will still be the prosecutor, but there will be a federal judge instead of a Georgia judge overseeing the case. The Georgia indictment will still be prosecuted under Georgia law, and those found guilty will not be eligible for federal pardons. Rather, Georgia state law will still apply. So moving it up to the federal level won't give Trump as much advantage as people seem to think. Anyway, see this interview by MSNBC's Chris Hayes with Anna Bower, who is a Harvard Law graduate with special expertise in this issue. It is very informative.


I think moving it to a Federal Court venue provides them something huge... a larger docket to squeeze the case into. I'm presuming Georgia can manage this case quicker than a Federal Court.
 
I'm trying to imagine Trump's lawyers in voir dire.

"Now, ma'am, tell the court what you had for dessert last night and the night before."
"Let me see...last night, flan. The night before, an empanada."
"Your honor, I strike this juror for cause!"
************************************
"Now, sir, how would you describe your decision-making process?"
"That's kind of general, but I would say, I like to see facts, I like to weigh all the facts and compare them, and I like to look at them logically."
"Your honor, I strike this juror for cause!"
**************************************
"Now, ma'am what am I holding up right here?"
"I would say you're holding a pencil."
"Look again. What is this object called?"
"Looks like a pencil to me, and I know pencils."
"Would it change your thinking if I told you that President Trump calls this a banana?"
"Why, yes! That's a delicious banana! I'd like that banana!"
"Your honor, this juror is acceptable to us."
*******************************************
"Now, sir. Can you name for us the last book you read?"
"You mean, like, a book?"
"Yes, hardcover or softbound, with pages."
"Okay. Book..... Book............... What book did I once read.... Okay, I aint exactly sure when I read me a book, for sure."
"Your honor, we are happy to accept this juror!"
 
I think moving it to a Federal Court venue provides them something huge... a larger docket to squeeze the case into. I'm presuming Georgia can manage this case quicker than a Federal Court.

One major advantage for Trump and the others is that the federal court will not be required to televise the proceedings. That is really too bad, if it happens. If there was ever a trial that the public had an interest in seeing live, it is this one. MSNBC legal advisor and Georgetown law professor, Neal Katyal, believes that the trial won't be moved up to the federal level, because it doesn't meet the legal standards for such a move, despite what Anna Bower told Chris Hayes. However, I'm not sure that the federal courts will agree with his opinion. It would be better for the public, if it remained in Georgia, although there is still the possibility that Republican state officials could meddle in the trial. But the argument for moving a complex case like this to a new venue will probably help Trump's side to delay the trial, possibly pushing it past next year's election.

Opinion: Why the Trump trial should be televised

 
Republican state officials could meddle in the trial.
I dunno. Raffy and Kemp both gave Trump the finger and not only lived to tell about it, but went on to win their elections by wide margins. I doubt that other State officials have the will and the way to interfere here.
 
I think moving it to a Federal Court venue provides them something huge... a larger docket to squeeze the case into. I'm presuming Georgia can manage this case quicker than a Federal Court.

One major advantage for Trump and the others is that the federal court will not be required to televise the proceedings. That is really too bad, if it happens. If there was ever a trial that the public had an interest in seeing live, it is this one. MSNBC legal advisor and Georgetown law professor, Neal Katyal, believes that the trial won't be moved up to the federal level, because it doesn't meet the legal standards for such a move, despite what Anna Bower told Chris Hayes. However, I'm not sure that the federal courts will agree with his opinion. It would be better for the public, if it remained in Georgia, although there is still the possibility that Republican state officials could meddle in the trial. But the argument for moving a complex case like this to a new venue will probably help Trump's side to delay the trial, possibly pushing it past next year's election.

I agree that having the trial televised will be very important. Not for Trump's rabid supporters. They've already decided it is a "deep state" "witch hunt" and that Trump is the victim, but the independent and swing voters need to be able to see this...either watching live or watching portions later. Because without a doubt the Trump camp will spin what comes out if it isn't televised, and will likely flat-out lie about what's going on. People even remotely on the fence need to be able to see the video and compare it to the narrative from not just Trump, but the GOP.

Because if Trump and the GOP can convince enough on the fence voters that this really is an unfair witch hunt, it gives Trump a better chance at a victory should the trial(s) be pushed past the election. On the off chance that he wins - and this one is taken over by the feds - he will absolutely order his DOJ to stop them, and barring that simply pardon himself. All the while dismantling any guardrails that keep the power of the White House in check.

It is a long shot, but his strategy of "I was the President, I'm running for President, and I could become President again, therefore I am immune from prosecution for any crimes" has a chance of actually working. A slim chance, but a non-zero chance. That is terrifying.
 

It is a long shot, but his strategy of "I was the President, I'm running for President, and I could become President again, therefore I am immune from prosecution for any crimes" has a chance of actually working. A slim chance, but a non-zero chance. That is terrifying.
But is there legal framework for that position? The DOJ held back in 2017-2021 because they had a tradition (unjudicated) of not bringing a sitting President to the dock. I think SCOTUS let Nixon know that he wasn't immune. I'm not terrified of that consequence. More likely, Trump's lawyers could put on such a blizzard of argumentation that a lay jury would not think they could convict.
 
I think SCOTUS let Nixon know that he wasn't immune.
I think today’s SCOTUS would give him a medal for surviving a witch hunt.

Or give him a medal for some "generous gifts" like maybe a lifetime membership to Mar A Lago, free golf at all Trump courses, and maybe a few nice vacations here and there to Trump properties around the world (private flights included). The court - at least the right wingers - have shown that they are not only Federalist Society fanatics, but are for sale.
 
This isn't the first time Trump has tried to move a state crime into a federal court. It was rejected the last time he tried it and from what I've read and heard from legal experts, it's unlikely he will get it moved to federal court. Of course, we never know for sure how SCOTUS will react if they are asked to take the case. They've rejected some of his former requests, so there is hope.

I'm listening to Meadow's claim right now. A legal analyst said it will all be up to the judge. He's conservative, but he is known to be fair and he already fined one of Trump's kiss ass team with a 5,000 dollar fine for something related to Trump. I don't remember the details right now. The daughter of a friend of mine went to law school with this judge and apparently she, despite being well to the left of him, seems to think he will be fair. He also once worked under Fanni Willis before he became a judge. I've heard they worked well together, so regardless of what happens, this judge doesn't sound like a Trump lackey.

Btw, one of my neighbors, who is retired military and a very nice man, said that he was part of Fanni Willis's security team and she is extremely tough. Trump must be scared of her. I think it would be wonderful if a strong Black female is the one who helps gets him convicted. He's both racist and sexist so even though I don't literally believe in Karma, that would be the closest thing to Karma I've ever seen. :)

One of the reasons that Trump wants the trial moved to the federal courts is because Fulton County overwhelmingly voted for Biden. If the trial was moved, the jury pool would be more mixed politically. At the same time, I've heard legal experts make some good arguments that juries almost always put their political views to the side when they are on a jury. Hopefully, that's true and the trial will remain in Fulton county and all of the evidence will be put out there in a way to make the truth obvious to the jury and the spectators. Trump broke state laws in this case. The court shouldn't be a federal one. Plus, it will only have a chance of being televised if it remains in a state court. I'm pretty sure there will be more charges in some of the other states that Trump tried to overturn.

This morning, I saw several men interviewed who voted for Trump in 2016 and 2020. They said after what's come out recently, they will never vote for him again. Hopefully, those that aren't hardcore members of the Trump cult, will not vote for him again. Perhaps we will reach the point where most voters realize they were duped.
 

It is a long shot, but his strategy of "I was the President, I'm running for President, and I could become President again, therefore I am immune from prosecution for any crimes" has a chance of actually working. A slim chance, but a non-zero chance. That is terrifying.
But is there legal framework for that position? The DOJ held back in 2017-2021 because they had a tradition (unjudicated) of not bringing a sitting President to the dock. I think SCOTUS let Nixon know that he wasn't immune. I'm not terrified of that consequence. More likely, Trump's lawyers could put on such a blizzard of argumentation that a lay jury would not think they could convict.
As I understand it, part of the reason the Trump team wants the case moved to federal court is that there's a chance (though not by any means certain) that it will be given to a judge he appointed. He hit the jackpot with Cannon, and a compliant judge could possibly defer to his "I'm a candidate and this is all political" defense. IIRC there are 4 Trump appointees in that district, with another (the Chief Judge) having been appointed by GW Bush. So, a solid Federalist Society pick. There would also be a different pool of jurors since Fulton County is mostly Democratic, while the district is a little more balanced overall. It only takes one juror...
 

It is a long shot, but his strategy of "I was the President, I'm running for President, and I could become President again, therefore I am immune from prosecution for any crimes" has a chance of actually working. A slim chance, but a non-zero chance. That is terrifying.
But is there legal framework for that position? The DOJ held back in 2017-2021 because they had a tradition (unjudicated) of not bringing a sitting President to the dock. I think SCOTUS let Nixon know that he wasn't immune. I'm not terrified of that consequence. More likely, Trump's lawyers could put on such a blizzard of argumentation that a lay jury would not think they could convict.
As I understand it, part of the reason the Trump team wants the case moved to federal court is that there's a chance (though not by any means certain) that it will be given to a judge he appointed. He hit the jackpot with Cannon, and a compliant judge could possibly defer to his "I'm a candidate and this is all political" defense. IIRC there are 4 Trump appointees in that district, with another (the Chief Judge) having been appointed by GW Bush. So, a solid Federalist Society pick. There would also be a different pool of jurors since Fulton County is mostly Democratic, while the district is a little more balanced overall. It only takes one juror...
Yes. I just posted about the jury pool, but I also just found an article in the AJC that explains how hard it can be to get a trial moved from state to federal court.

I don't know if it's behind a paywall, but I will try to post the important parts.

https://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta-ne...-in-federal-court/ADQWGZTHJVAXJHXPGQILZ5VOYA/

The so-called removal statute was enacted by Congress in 1789 to protect federal officials from being harassed and prosecuted by state officials.

There are three conditions that must be met for defendants to move their cases to federal court: At the time of the alleged offense, they must have been a federal official; they must be facing charges “for or relating to any act under color of such office;” and they must raise “a colorable federal defense.”

Trump may be able to meet those conditions, said Atlanta defense attorney Andrew Fleischman.

“The former president is going to claim that he was trying to enforce some sort of federal law” as he pressured Georgia officials to overturn his election loss, Fleischman said. “And then the only question is: Is it colorable?”

Fleischman said a colorable argument “means plausible, just barely plausible, something that you can say with a straight face. And he could. Could he say with a straight face he was trying to ensure election integrity? Yes, he could make that claim.”

It’s also possible that lawyers for Jeffrey Clark, who was an assistant U.S. attorney general could try to remove his case to federal court. And there is court precedent that could allow someone who was acting as an agent of a federal official to make such a request.

Trump’s lawyers have already tried but failed to remove the hush money case brought against the former president in state court in Manhattan to the U.S. District Court in New York.

In that case, Trump faces felony charges involving payments he made to porn star Stormy Daniels. Trump is accused of falsifying business records in 2017 to hide $130,000 in reimbursements paid to his then-attorney, Michael Cohen. Trump has denied any wrongdoing and denied having an affair with Daniels.

In July, U.S. District Judge Alvin Hellerstein in New York said Trump’s lawyers failed to show that the conduct charged in the indictment related to any act performed by Trump as president.
 
I think moving it to a Federal Court venue provides them something huge... a larger docket to squeeze the case into. I'm presuming Georgia can manage this case quicker than a Federal Court.
I don't know. The other high profile RICO case that the Fulton County/Fanni Willis is prosecuting has been dragging on for over a year without a single juror being seated - the jury selection alone has taken eight months so far!
Young Thug denied bond again in RICO case as jury selection enters 8th month

I think these two cases have a lot more in common than the case against cheating teachers about a decade ago, which was also a RICO case prosecuted by Fanni Willis (then an ADA).
How and why convicted Atlanta teachers cheated on standardized tests
By the way, some black supremacist and other far left activists (like Egyptian Sarah Abdelaziz) do not think these teachers should have been prosecuted. SMH.
 
I think moving it to a Federal Court venue provides them something huge... a larger docket to squeeze the case into. I'm presuming Georgia can manage this case quicker than a Federal Court.
I don't know. The other high profile RICO case that the Fulton County/Fanni Willis is prosecuting has been dragging on for over a year without a single juror being seated - the jury selection alone has taken eight months so far!
Young Thug denied bond again in RICO case as jury selection enters 8th month

I think these two cases have a lot more in common than the case against cheating teachers about a decade ago, which was also a RICO case prosecuted by Fanni Willis (then an ADA).
How and why convicted Atlanta teachers cheated on standardized tests
By the way, some black supremacist and other far left activists (like Egyptian Sarah Abdelaziz) do not think these teachers should have been prosecuted. SMH.
I dunno. If Trump keeps right on trumping and gets hisself locked up pending trial, I'm really ok with the trials taking longer. 4-5 years longer, if necessary.
 
Fleischman said a colorable argument “means plausible, just barely plausible, something that you can say with a straight face. And he could. Could he say with a straight face he was trying to ensure election integrity? Yes, he could make that claim.


I would like to hear him expand on that point. To my knowledge there was nothing to lead anyone to believe the integrity of the election was in question.
 
More likely, Trump's lawyers could put on such a blizzard of argumentation that a lay jury would not think they could convict.
At this point, it seems inevitable that they will adopt a Chewbacca defence; It's the only strategy open to them.
 
This morning, I saw several men interviewed who voted for Trump in 2016 and 2020. They said after what's come out recently, they will never vote for him again. Hopefully, those that aren't hardcore members of the Trump cult, will not vote for him again. Perhaps we will reach the point where most voters realize they were duped.
That's refreshing to hear. Too many of his sycophants around here have the savior complex. going to fix all that woke shit and more. What a bunch of buffoons, perfect imitation of Orange diarrhea mouth, not at all surprising considering their limited cognitive ability.
 
https://www.ajc.com/politics/breaki...-18-co-defendants/CGWTOCQZ4NAMNKGUAM4LXAXY4Q/

Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis is proposing that former President Donald Trump and his 18 racketeering co-defendants stand trial on March 4, according to a court filing on Wednesday.

If approved, the trial would begin eight days before Georgia’s presidential primary, set for March 12. Attached to the motion was a proposed scheduling order for the judge presiding over the case — Superior Court Judge Scott McAfee — to sign. It’s highly unlikely McAfee will sign the order until he hears from lawyers for all the defendants.

I expect some screaming and shouting from Trump and his fellow crooks, due to the date, among other things. A lot is going to be happening come next March in Georgia.
 
I expect some screaming and shouting from Trump and his fellow crooks, due to the date
Sheesh. So the ex-dog catcher is brought up on charges of kidnapping, killing and eating other people’s dogs, both during and after his tenure as dog catcher. A date is scheduled for trial, but the accused says no, can’t make it; too busy running for dog catcher.

Seriously? Don’t the locals deserve to know if this guy is going to kidnap, kill and eat their dogs, before deciding whether or not to vote for him?
 
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