Another Fucking Mass Shooting At US School

[bilby]

You can't accomplish that without pretty much disarming all of society.

You mean, like the entire rest of the developed world has?

No, you probably can't.

So you probably should.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Only shot is to start an "Arm the hell out of the minorities" movement. Maybe then whites will care.

 

[Worldtraveller]

Though we're awash in current events from all over the world, this barely makes the news anymore and hardly draws a comment.
Welcome to normal.

The reason that this mass shooting receives little attention is that it neither involves the so-called "assault weapons" nor does it have a white shooter.

You misspelled "only one student was murdered".

So it's not suitable to make political points the Left wants to make.

When did not wanting children being shot to death in schools become a political point? When I was a kid, we had fire drills. My daughter does those, and the lockdown / someone is trying to murder y'all drill. That isn't fucking political, it is a fucking travesty.

The problem is the gun-grabbers focus on rare events.

Which is riskier? A year in grade school, or taking a flight?

Spoiler

They're approximately equal

Approximately equal? In the US? What the fuck are you even smoking these days?

Show me your data.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Though we're awash in current events from all over the world, this barely makes the news anymore and hardly draws a comment.
Welcome to normal.

The reason that this mass shooting receives little attention is that it neither involves the so-called "assault weapons" nor does it have a white shooter.

You misspelled "only one student was murdered".

So it's not suitable to make political points the Left wants to make.

When did not wanting children being shot to death in schools become a political point? When I was a kid, we had fire drills. My daughter does those, and the lockdown / someone is trying to murder y'all drill. That isn't fucking political, it is a fucking travesty.

The problem is the gun-grabbers focus on rare events.

Like 9/11, Pearl Harbor, October 7th?

There is no focus on rare events, there is a focus on horrifyingly tragic atrocities. Mass murders are not nearly as "rare" as they were 20 to 30 years ago. School shootings where several children are murdered is more common than Christmas. I can't imagine losing a child. Forget losing a child and then hearing about how "gun grabbers focus on rare events". That you even consider Sandy Hook or Columbine as "events" indicates an offset of emotional understanding and empathy.

Which is riskier? A year in grade school, or taking a flight?

Going to school should provide virtually no risk at all. Saying that going to school is as safe or safer than shoving yourself inside a tiny cylinder with 30,000 feet of potential energy is hardly an argument worth considering seriously. My daughter will most likely not get shot or killed in school. Somebody's daughter in this country will almost likely not get to go to graduation as per a mass killing this year.

 

[bilby]

Though we're awash in current events from all over the world, this barely makes the news anymore and hardly draws a comment.
Welcome to normal.

The reason that this mass shooting receives little attention is that it neither involves the so-called "assault weapons" nor does it have a white shooter.

You misspelled "only one student was murdered".

So it's not suitable to make political points the Left wants to make.

When did not wanting children being shot to death in schools become a political point? When I was a kid, we had fire drills. My daughter does those, and the lockdown / someone is trying to murder y'all drill. That isn't fucking political, it is a fucking travesty.

The problem is the gun-grabbers focus on rare events.

Which is riskier? A year in grade school, or taking a flight?

Spoiler

They're approximately equal

Approximately equal? In the US? What the fuck are you even smoking these days?

Show me your data.

I did a quick Google, and found:

IATA flight incidents, 2022, USA:

Deaths - 19

School Shootings, 2022, USA:

Deaths - 40

40 doesn't strike me as "approximately equal to" 19.

I would characterise it as "More than double", but then, I am not trying to rationalise the insane attitude towards firearms ownership in the USA, so that makes me a "gun grabber" and not to be trusted. You should probably trust @Loren Pechtel's unsourced, unevidenced and unsubstantiated claim instead.

I expect 2022 (the last year for which data is currently available) will turn out to be an outlier; Or that Education Week will turn out to be a Chinese front organisation; Or that IATA are successfully concealing deaths to avoid scaring off the flying public; Or something.

By the way, parents are not expected nor required to send their children on airline flights, nor is a failure to do so likely to harm those children's future employment prospects. If you are going to make something mandatory, you have a duty to also make it safe.

 

[Worldtraveller]

I knew the numbers weren't going to work for him, but wanted him to support his idiotic claim.

I mean maybe, if you stretch back far enough, and include all the GA type incidents, you may eventually come up with a number that you can claim is 'comparable', but I'm not doing his fucking homework for him.

Also: here's another issue with trying to use aviation as a proxy/comparison to gun deaths or just school shooting. Nearly every aviation accident that isn't pilot error results in one of the following:
- a specific maintenance or corrective action to be taken for the specific model of aircraft that had the incident (usually due to a design flaw of some kind)
- a more general maintenance or corrective action to be taken on all aircraft because it could potentially be a widespread issue.
- a general rule change that effects how pilots operate aircraft, or how mechanics have to maintain and log their work.

Except, LP is arguing (constantly, loudly, with no regard to reality) against any and all rule changes regarding who can have or purchase guns so they can shoot up schools.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

1) You can't accomplish that without pretty much disarming all of society.

So... ?

Nice job of selective quoting. You cut off the why and then ask why.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Though we're awash in current events from all over the world, this barely makes the news anymore and hardly draws a comment.
Welcome to normal.

The reason that this mass shooting receives little attention is that it neither involves the so-called "assault weapons" nor does it have a white shooter.

You misspelled "only one student was murdered".

So it's not suitable to make political points the Left wants to make.

When did not wanting children being shot to death in schools become a political point? When I was a kid, we had fire drills. My daughter does those, and the lockdown / someone is trying to murder y'all drill. That isn't fucking political, it is a fucking travesty.

The problem is the gun-grabbers focus on rare events.

Which is riskier? A year in grade school, or taking a flight?

Spoiler

They're approximately equal

Approximately equal? In the US? What the fuck are you even smoking these days?

Show me your data.

I did a quick Google, and found:

IATA flight incidents, 2022, USA:

Deaths - 19

School Shootings, 2022, USA:

Note that I said "grade school". Not "school". Once you include high schools you are catching gang violence that spills onto campus and it becomes much harder to figure out what is truly a school shooting (targeting based on location) vs situations that simply happened at a school (targeting based on identity.) And look at a wider window as both sets of data are noisy. Furthermore, you failed to scale either number. I'm comparing the risk of a year in grade school to the risk of taking a flight.

By the way, parents are not expected nor required to send their children on airline flights, nor is a failure to do so likely to harm those children's future employment prospects. If you are going to make something mandatory, you have a duty to also make it safe.

But the reality is that we don't panic over the risk of a plane crash, or try to make big shifts in society to reduce plane crashes. Our reaction to school shootings is way disproportionate to the actual risk.

 

[Elixir]

1) You can't accomplish that without pretty much disarming all of society.

So... ?

Nice job of selective quoting. You cut off the why and then ask why.

THIS is “why”?

And even then you probably can't. Most crime guns are stolen.

2) When attackers have weapons like knives the victims are more likely to get hurt because the intimidation factor is less.

Your surmises don’t exactly provide an answer. “It’s probably useless” doesn’t make a compelling argument, and I frankly think you made up the part about being held at gunpoint being “safer”. Maybe it is, but I’d like some actual stats.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

1) You can't accomplish that without pretty much disarming all of society.

So... ?

Nice job of selective quoting. You cut off the why and then ask why.

THIS is “why”?

And even then you probably can't. Most crime guns are stolen.

2) When attackers have weapons like knives the victims are more likely to get hurt because the intimidation factor is less.

Your surmises don’t exactly provide an answer. “It’s probably useless” doesn’t make a compelling argument, and I frankly think you made up the part about being held at gunpoint being “safer”. Maybe it is, but I’d like some actual stats.

I didn't say anything about be held at gunpoint.

Rather, what I was saying is that if you're the victim of a robbery the heavier the weapon the less likely it is to actually be used.

And, yes, I'm saying it's pretty much useless. Effort spent on something pretty much useless takes away from effort that could actually be effective.

 

[Elixir]

Rather, what I was saying is that if you're the victim of a robbery the heavier the weapon the less likely it is to actually be used.

An interesting conjecture.

 

[Rhea]

But the reality is that we don't panic over the risk of a plane crash, or try to make big shifts in society to reduce plane crashes. Our reaction to school shootings is way disproportionate to the actual risk.

The TSA would like a word with you.

We have made HUGE shifts in society to avoid plane crashes and plane violence.
How could you try to pretend we haven’t?

From requiring extra ID to board, to 3-ounce clear bottles, to removing our shoes, to not being able to carry scissors to cut my crochet yarn, to no lingering at pick-up lanes, to scans showing naked bodies to strangers in the TSA line.


No big shift in society to reduce violence on planes?
Are you deluded? Or just so married to the gun fetish that you can’t think straight?

 

[Shadowy Man]

But the reality is that we don't panic over the risk of a plane crash, or try to make big shifts in society to reduce plane crashes. Our reaction to school shootings is way disproportionate to the actual risk.

The TSA would like a word with you.

We have made HUGE shifts in society to avoid plane crashes and plane violence.
How could you try to pretend we haven’t?

From requiring extra ID to board, to 3-ounce clear bottles, to removing our shoes, to not being able to carry scissors to cut my crochet yarn, to no lingering at pick-up lanes, to scans showing naked bodies to strangers in the TSA line.


No big shift in society to reduce violence on planes?
Are you deluded? Or just so married to the gun fetish that you can’t think straight?

Not to mention massive government oversight (FAA, TSA, ATC, etc.) on what is a private enterprise.

 

[southernhybrid]

I found some statistics regarding gun violence in schools since 1970

https://www.campussafetymagazine.com/safety/k-12-school-shooting-statistics-everyone-should-know/

I know that the insane 2nd amendment will not be overturned, but it seems really stupid and dangerous that we can't even have some tough laws regarding gun control. And, of course, gun safety is a huge problem as too many people don't store their guns in locked cabinets and/or keep them unloaded in a house that has children, while storing the ammo separately. No one under 21 should be permitted to own a gun legally. Of course, now that we have more guns in the country than we do people. guns aren't going away, but one would think that people would at least want to have laws that keep should children safer. Parents should always be held responsible when a child acquires access to a gun, regardless if they used it on themselves, in a school or against another person. Sadly, as long as we have the crazy SCOTUS that we currently do, along with so many politicians who fetishize guns, I don't see much happening to improve the situation.

Improving mental health care would also help, as so many children as well as adults currently suffer from mental problems, including anxiety and depression. Bullying in school is also a problem as many school shooters have been the victims of bullying in schools. I have no idea why it's gotten so bad. I went to a huge public high school in NJ in the 60s and I guess perhaps a few kids were bullied but I don't know of a single case of that type of behavior. These days it seems very common. Anyone have an idea why? If you have children in school, do you know of any episodes of bullying. I volunteered in an elementary school about 20 years ago and there was no bullying. Even the little boy who was on the autism spectrum was treated kindly by the other kids, in spite of his behavior being, let's say, a bit different. How did we get to this point?

The founders are given way too much credit. They were a bunch of genocidal racist slave owners, but the dumbest, most careless thing they put in our constitution was the 2nd amendment.

The school shooting data below includes stats from 1970 to June 2022. Partial 2023 data can be found on the CHDS website.



Related: 7 Times ‘See Something, Say Something’ Stopped Potential Tragedies in 2021

• There have been 2,057 shooting incidents since 1970.
• There have been 680 fatalities and 1,926 injuries.
• 2021 had the greatest number of incidents with 249. The next highest year was 2022 with 153 (note this only includes through June).
• Since 1970, there have been 573 fatalities and 1,623 injuries.
• 2022 was the deadliest year with 50 victims killed — 21 of whom died in the Robb Elementary School shooting.
• California, Texas, and Florida are the states with the most incidents.
• The most common location for a school shooting is in a parking lot (22.6%), followed by inside a classroom (9.8%).
• Most school shootings occurred during morning classes (18.1%), followed by during afternoon classes (10.3%) and sporting events (10.1%).
• The most common situation was an escalated dispute (37%).
• The most common time of year for a school shooting is in the fall (40%).

The CHDS has compiled all of their K-12 school shooting statistics in graphs, tables, and charts.

 

[Worldtraveller]

But the reality is that we don't panic over the risk of a plane crash, or try to make big shifts in society to reduce plane crashes. Our reaction to school shootings is way disproportionate to the actual risk.

The TSA would like a word with you.

We have made HUGE shifts in society to avoid plane crashes and plane violence.
How could you try to pretend we haven’t?

From requiring extra ID to board, to 3-ounce clear bottles, to removing our shoes, to not being able to carry scissors to cut my crochet yarn, to no lingering at pick-up lanes, to scans showing naked bodies to strangers in the TSA line.


No big shift in society to reduce violence on planes?
Are you deluded? Or just so married to the gun fetish that you can’t think straight?

LP, you really should stick to your wheelhouse. Of course, I don't think you know what your wheelhouse is. You Dunning-Krueger just about everything you talk about.

I'm an aviation structures engineer, and I have worked in the industry for 30 years now. My job is safety in the aviation field. I'm just going to say that you don't know what the fuck you're talking about with this. It's not a stretch, then, to conclude that you don't what the fuck you're talking about when it comes to guns either.

 

[Derec]

I guess I don't understand why you would be mixed. Isn't it reasonable that the customer feared for his life? And in that case, as is stated by most gun proponents, it is reasonable to defend yourself.

It is. The first few shots were certainly justified. But the guy continued shooting after the perp was down.

 

[Derec]

The moron in Wisconsin was probably in the wrong. Unfortunately, Wisconsin law says the prosecutor must prove it wasn't self defense beyond a reasonable doubt--and while I think he probably had unclean hands and thus no right of self defense, but that's not the same as beyond a reasonable doubt.

Are you two talking about Kyle Rittenhouse? He was definitely defending himself (video evidence confirms it) from attack by three idiots, two of them convicted felons, and one of them armed with a gun.
I do not see why you think he "probably had unclean hands", and in any case, "probably" should not be enough to convict somebody of a crime.

 

[Derec]

When did not wanting children being shot to death in schools become a political point? When I was a kid, we had fire drills. My daughter does those, and the lockdown / someone is trying to murder y'all drill. That isn't fucking political, it is a fucking travesty.

Nobody wants children getting shot to death in schools.
The question is, what is the best course of action? That's where politics enters in.
I find it disingenuous when people suggest (certain) guns should be banned altogether while current laws are not being enforced. Like giving gun criminals slaps on the wrist. Even worse when gun criminals are hailed as "princes" or hired by candidates for DA in their election campaign as paid staffers.

 

[Derec]

My reply addressed Derec's main point, which was that lefty liberal politics was why we didn't hear about it. I disagreed. I didn't miss his point. You missed mine.

I think politics of the news organizations plays a huge role is why certain cases are covered extensively (and excessively) and why others disappear from coverage quickly.
Take Trayvon Martin. The news media yapped about him incessantly for years, and it wasn't because the case had an unusually large body count.

 

[Derec]

What if neither of them had a gun?

Technically, the robber did not have a gun. Not a real one at least. He had a realistic looking replica. Good for robbing people, bad for when one of your victims has a real gun and is willing to use it.