Another Fucking Mass Shooting At US School

[Oleg]

The Chinese in San Francisco faced discrimination and poverty for many years. Yet, they are nearly nonexistent in crime statistics.

And then merely ten minutes later:

So tired of blacks whining about inequality. I mean, we gave you guys an unlimited supply of poverty and firearms. What the heck else do you want? You think you could have such an elevated murder rate if you weren't given so many guns?

The lefty take that black people ought to be held to a lower standard because they’re black and can’t help themselves is always something to behold.

The irony.

What irony? That people should be held to the same standards?

 

[Swammerdami]

The Chinese in San Francisco faced discrimination and poverty for many years. Yet, they are nearly nonexistent in crime statistics.

And then merely ten minutes later:

So tired of blacks whining about inequality. I mean, we gave you guys an unlimited supply of poverty and firearms. What the heck else do you want? You think you could have such an elevated murder rate if you weren't given so many guns?

The lefty take that black people ought to be held to a lower standard because they’re black and can’t help themselves is always something to behold.

The irony.

What irony? That people should be held to the same standards?

I am not surprised you are unable to see the irony. Do you want a challenge? Forget for a moment that your goal is just to defend your own position, and see if you can stand back impartially and grasp why some of us might find your contradictions ironic.

To help you get started, read the Gospel post immediately before yours. Write a very brief essay addressing whether some ethnic groups are superior to others.

 

[Oleg]

To help you get started, read the Gospel post immediately before yours. Write a very brief essay addressing whether some ethnic groups are superior to others.

Poverty does not cause crime. That's why the Chinese in SF were cited. And why the lower crime rate for hispanics/latinos of similar economic status was cited. But that offends your religon. So you make some silly "irony" accusation to avoid discomfort.

 

[Gospel]

Poverty does not cause crime.

Indeed. Poverty doesn't cause crime in the same way that guns don't kill people. Both are tools that can be used for crimes though.

 

[Oleg]

Poverty does not cause crime.

Indeed. Poverty doesn't cause crime in the same way that guns don't kill people. Both are tools that can be used for crimes though.

I argue a bit of the reverse. Crime causes poverty. It depresses property values. It leads stores to close or put up plexy glass and metal bars. It's detrimential to quality of life; people are fearful to walk in their own neighborhoods or are constantly victimized. Etc. Get the bad guys off the street, and all benefit.

 

[Politesse]

It is interesting how guns aren't the problem, and conservatives demonstrate this point by mentioning places where guns and violence is an issue.

Most gun owners do not use them to engage in crime.
The problem is, as always, people.

They're usually pretty quick to threaten to murder policemen and others with said guns. "You'll take my guns over my dead body", etc etc.

 

[Politesse]

At the time when Rittenhouse killed, he couldn't legally own the armalite, incidentally.

He was acquitted on all charges, including misdemeanor gun possession, a charge which was dismissed by the judge before it even came before the jury.

Is the law what is written, or what is decided?

 

[Patooka]

At the time when Rittenhouse killed, he couldn't legally own the armalite, incidentally.

He was acquitted on all charges, including misdemeanor gun possession, a charge which was dismissed by the judge before it even came before the jury.

Is the law what is written, or what is decided?

2013 Wisconsin Statutes & Annotations :: 948. Crimes against children. :: 948.60 Possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under 18.

law.justia.com

Any person under 18 years of age who possesses or goes armed with a dangerous weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.

Curiously, the Wisconsin.gov website 404s when you try and look for the specific statute.

 

[bilby]

Is the law what is written, or what is decided?

The law is whatever you can pay a lawyer to say it is, right up until the point where a judge tells him he's wrong.

The vast majority of legal opinion is exactly that - lawyers opinions, which have only a minuscule degree of consistency with what has been written by legislators and/or decided by judges.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Is the law what is written, or what is decided?

The law is whatever you can pay a lawyer to say it is, right up until the point where a judge tells him he's wrong.

The vast majority of legal opinion is exactly that - lawyers opinions, which have only a minuscule degree of consistency with what has been written by legislators and/or decided by judges.

Ultimately, it is whatever the Government can or is willing to enforce. Great expensive lawyers can muddle that part up.

At the time when Rittenhouse killed, he couldn't legally own the armalite, incidentally.

He was acquitted on all charges, including misdemeanor gun possession, a charge which was dismissed by the judge before it even came before the jury.

Is the law what is written, or what is decided?

I keep forgetting he scored that pretty awesome Pro-"kill those hippies" Judge.

 

[Oleg]

At the time when Rittenhouse killed, he couldn't legally own the armalite, incidentally.

He was acquitted on all charges, including misdemeanor gun possession, a charge which was dismissed by the judge before it even came before the jury.

Is the law what is written, or what is decided?

Not meaning to push a derail, but the Wisconsin statutes said simultaneously that a person under 18 could not possess a rifle and that this only applied to a short barrel gun. The law was ambiguous so the charge was dismissed.

 

[Politesse]

At the time when Rittenhouse killed, he couldn't legally own the armalite, incidentally.

He was acquitted on all charges, including misdemeanor gun possession, a charge which was dismissed by the judge before it even came before the jury.

Is the law what is written, or what is decided?

Not meaning to push a derail, but the Wisconsin statutes said simultaneously that a person under 18 could not possess a rifle and that this only applied to a short barrel gun. The law was ambiguous so the charge was dismissed.

I don't think the law was ambiguous, it came down to a simple question of how long the barrel was in inches. The law may not make a heck of a lot of sense, especially to someone who isn't from a state where deer hunting is a common pasttime for the young, but it is not unclear.

 

[ZiprHead]

Police make arrest in Des Moines shooting that killed 2 students, injured founder Will Keeps

A police spokesman said the shooting was "committed as a result of an ongoing gang dispute." Police have arrested and charged an 18 year old.

www.desmoinesregister.com

Update:
Court documents reveal new details in deadly shooting at Des Moines youth outreach center
It was a gang shooting. The perp (18 yo) is a known gang member who was on probation.

It is also off topic here. 2 dead, 1 wounded is too small a body count for even the most inclusive definition of "mass shooting".

It was a school shooting.

 

[Derec]

The Chinese in San Francisco faced discrimination and poverty for many years. Yet, they are nearly nonexistent in crime statistics.

And then merely ten minutes later:

So tired of blacks whining about inequality. I mean, we gave you guys an unlimited supply of poverty and firearms. What the heck else do you want? You think you could have such an elevated murder rate if you weren't given so many guns?

The lefty take that black people ought to be held to a lower standard because they’re black and can’t help themselves is always something to behold.

The irony.

No, Oleg has a point. Chinese-Americans have faced poverty and discrimination too, but, those two geezers notwithstanding, have markedly lower crime rates than blacks. So high crime rates cannot be reduced to reaction to poverty and discrimination.

Something else must be in play. Culture, certainly. Hip hop culture in particular is saturated in glorification of violence, esp. gang violence.
I would also leave open the possibility that genetics play a role too, as politically incorrect as that is to even suggest. But we know that allele frequencies and traits (short vs. long twitch muscle fibers, sickle cell trait etc.) vary among different human populations. So why exclude the possibility that alleles that are correlated with aggression/criminality (such as the 2r allele of the MAOA gene) may also be unequally distributed?

 

[Derec]

The Great American Hero Kyle Rittenhouse, for example, got an AR-15 (the only gun a teeny-bopper could legally own), and then drove to a different state to engage in self-defense against unarmed men.

We had a lengthy thread about Ritt when the trial was happening. No excuse to still be misrepresenting the case.
1. He did not drive to "a different state" to defend businesses from rioters. He was already in Kenosha when riots honoring the great #BLM hero Jacob Blake happened.
2. The only one who was unarmed was Rosenbaum. Unarmed != not a threat. He chased Ritt, cornered him and went for his gun. Self defense. The other two were armed - Huber with skateboard with which he whacked Ritt on the head, and Grosskreutz with a handgun. Those two shootings were self defense too.

The innocent Rittenhouse is now a rich entrepreneur, with the Kyle Rittenhouse's Turkey Shoot video-game franchise.

I doubt that browser game made him rich. What should make him rich is slander and libel lawsuits against media and politicians who defamed him as a "murderer".

The problem is, as always, people with guns.

I've appended two words to this sentence to make it more sensical.

You failed. People are the ones making the choices, hence it is people who are the problem, not the tools.

People with knives can be a problem too.
Man held for knife attack on German train; 2 dead, 7 injured
A Palestinian committed a mass stabbing on a train in Germany. This German article says he had dealings with the police 12 times since 2015. The article is paywalled, so I could not read any details, but in any case, why wasn't he deported? Danke Merkel!
People with machetes can cause a lot of damage too.
Spain: 1 dead in church machete attacks, terror link probed

Europe is reaping the fruits of the policy to allow Muslim mass migrants to come in by the millions.

 

[laughing dog]

No, Oleg has a point. Chinese-Americans have faced poverty and discrimination too, but, those two geezers notwithstanding, have markedly lower crime rates than blacks. So high crime rates cannot be reduced to reaction to poverty and discrimination.

I agree because social issues rarely boil down to simple causes. But the notion that Chinese-Americans faced the same level of discrimination and poverty for as long as Blacks in the US is untrue.

Something else must be in play. Culture, certainly. Hip hop culture in particular is saturated in glorification of violence, esp. gang violence.
I would also leave open the possibility that genetics play a role too, as politically incorrect as that is to even suggest. But we know that allele frequencies and traits (short vs. long twitch muscle fibers, sickle cell trait etc.) vary among different human populations. So why exclude the possibility that alleles that are correlated with aggression/criminality (such as the 2r allele of the MAOA gene) may also be unequally distributed?

Or that alleles are correlated with racism and discrimination as well?

 

[Derec]

I agree. But the notion that Chinese-Americans faced the same level of discrimination and poverty for as long as Blacks in the US is untrue.

Maybe not. So now the length of past discrimination is the excuse for criminal behavior?

Or that alleles are correlated with racism and discrimination as well?

Which allele do you propose?

 

[Derec]

It was a school shooting.

Starts Right Here is an outreach/mentorship program. I do not think it qualifies as a school.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

No, Oleg has a point. Chinese-Americans have faced poverty and discrimination too, but, those two geezers notwithstanding, have markedly lower crime rates than blacks. So high crime rates cannot be reduced to reaction to poverty and discrimination.

I agree because social issues rarely boil down to simple causes. But the notion that Chinese-Americans faced the same level of discrimination and poverty for as long as Blacks in the US is untrue.

If the duration of poverty matters it's something that's become part of the family or culture and not an effect of being poor. Both groups were heavily discriminated against, one bounced back quickly. That says being poor isn't self-perpetuating and thus shows that things like affirmative action are not required.

 

[Derec]

The choices people make are based within the confines of the options available and the risks inherent with each of those options.

You mentioning risk is interesting. Progressives have been reducing the risk one faces when engaging in violent crime, esp. for minors. When you don't face prison for say carjacking people, that choice becomes more favorable in the risk-reward calculation.
Like this case in New Orleans. The little twerp carjacked several people at gunpoint, and yet the judge only game him probation. No jail time, not even community service. Pretty much got away with it. The inept, corrupt NoLa mayor supported the carjacker btw.
Victims speak out after New Orleans mayor supports 13-year-old sentenced for carjacking

And another one. 17 year old nearly beat a woman to death during a carjacking. Also got probation. Carjacked somebody else 2 years later, and had caught other charges in between, but was never violated (why?).
Victims say New Orleans justice system failed them, allowing violent teen to re-offend

The solution is to make crime not pay by locking robbers etc. up again instead of giving them a pass. Even if they are <18.

Often in life, decisions have a way of cascading. And with the intentional divorcing of the inner city from banks and investors, so money could be spread out where no one lived yet, the options available aren't as easy and carry much more difficult risk.

Intentional? No, I don't think so. A bank is not going to not open a branch that can make money just because it is in the inner city. But if the branch loses money, then of course it will not be maintained.
That applies to investment of all kinds. Investors seek a return on their investment, be it the inner city, central business district, the suburbs or the boonies.
Take the much talked about issue of "food deserts". Grocery stores are businesses, in it to make money. If the costs exceed revenues, for example because the location higher than usual rate of shoplifting, or because it requires extra security, it will lose money, and is thus not sustainable as a business. And sometimes there is the opposite problem - a grocery store wants to move in, but local activists oppose it because they fear intergalactic civil war "gentrification".

We want to believe we are all moral and sane. Of course, if the Sun nailed Earth with a massive solar flare and our power went out for 12 months, I'm thinking "choices people make" starts getting graded on a different scale. I'm reminded of what Amos said in The Expanse, about tribes/groups and their relative sizes, how they shrink in bad times, grow in the good times.

A major disaster would cause a lot of chaos. No shit, Sherlock.
Still does not justify the bullshit we have here even without any massive solar flares.

The problem is, not enough gun owners do not use them to engage in crime. And in some cases recently, massacres have taken place with recently purchased guns... gun dealers sold guns to people with unlawful intent to murder.

Gun dealers are not mind readers. But some waiting period would cut down on impulsive acts. Both of suicide and homicide.

However, for some, the solution to gun massacres is to just dilute the crime with all the other gun related deaths. Then it goes away... like pollution did.

Well, it at least puts things in perspective. It's like airplane crashes vs. car crashes. The latter kill many more people, but airplane crashes make all the headlines, because they kill many people at once and usually have gnarlier footage for the nightly news.