At least 8 dead in Mass Shooting du Jour

[Jimmy Higgins]

So you caught that.

You were as subtle as a sledgehammer.

I suppose we get lucky sometimes in America.

It's not luck, it's the shooter. That plays a much bigger role than the type of weapon, unless we are dealing with a perp shooting people at a distance, like the Vegas shooting from a few years ago.

The type of weapon very much matters as it helps reduce the need to be skilled to kill people. It is an attack of chaos. While a higher skill of a shooter makes things worse (though it could be argued a skilled shooter would fire less), weapons that can fire quickly make it easier to hit people, as people have less ability to evade and apprehending the shooter is much harder.

 

[Derec]

The type of weapon very much matters as it helps reduce the need to be skilled to kill people.

Vast majority of homicides are committed using handguns. A certain type of weapon will have both advantages and disadvantages. Handguns are far more easily concealable and maneuverable, especially in tight spaces. A rifle has the advantage of power and effective range.
And this chick maybe hitting one person before getting gunned down by off duty police officers (presumably using their handguns) shows that a rifle does not compensate for being a poor shot.

It is an attack of chaos. While a higher skill of a shooter makes things worse (though it could be argued a skilled shooter would fire less), weapons that can fire quickly make it easier to hit people, as people have less ability to evade and apprehending the shooter is much harder.

A civilian AR15 does not have a rate of fire substantially different than a handgun like Glock 17. And both accept high capacity mags.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I wonder what the math says, regarding being armed being a relative risk/benefit to the possessor and those around them.

No you don't and neither does anyone else. We all know goddam good and well that having a gun or being around guns or people who have guns, puts you in more danger, not less.

I meant to qualify the question:

I wonder what the math says, regarding being armed being a relative risk/benefit to the possessor and those around them when "incidents" occur. IE, in situations where anger or intended violence is a thing.

 

[ZiprHead]

So you caught that.

You were as subtle as a sledgehammer.

I suppose we get lucky sometimes in America.

It's not luck, it's the shooter. That plays a much bigger role than the type of weapon, unless we are dealing with a perp shooting people at a distance, like the Vegas shooting from a few years ago.

The type of weapon very much matters as it helps reduce the need to be skilled to kill people. It is an attack of chaos. While a higher skill of a shooter makes things worse (though it could be argued a skilled shooter would fire less), weapons that can fire quickly make it easier to hit people, as people have less ability to evade and apprehending the shooter is much harder.

One of the early reports suspected one of the weapons was altered to fire in automatic mode.

 

[Elixir]

A civilian AR15 does not have a rate of fire substantially different than a handgun like Glock 17. And both accept high capacity mags.

If you get hit in the leg with a Glock 17 you will probably survive, even if you don't receive immediate care. Get hit in the leg with an AR15 round, not so much.
Despite your insistence that there's nothing exceptional about "military-style assault weapons", the truth is they are far deadlier, which is why they are used by professional people-killers.
We have tried repeatedly to educate you on this fact, but apparently you find the comfort of your ignorance too valuable to let go of.

 

[bilby]

There is a Kansas City, KS. It is just across the state line from the other one.

Makes sense. I still think that Du Jour must be in Louisiana though.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Looks like the shooter might have been transgender and pro-Palestine... so maybe there is a new thread about it by other parties.

Trans appears to be disinformation.

 

[Derec]

One of the early reports suspected one of the weapons was altered to fire in automatic mode.

Possible. These "Glock switches" have been around.

Note however that this doesn't back up Jimmy's assertion about the rate of fire of rifles vs. handguns.

 

[Derec]

If you get hit in the leg with a Glock 17 you will probably survive, even if you don't receive immediate care. Get hit in the leg with an AR15 round, not so much.

I was responding to Jimmy's claim about rates of fire.
And I have, in the same post, acknowledged that a rifle has advantages of power and effective range.
So what's your point?

Despite your insistence that there's nothing exceptional about "military-style assault weapons", the truth is they are far deadlier, which is why they are used by professional people-killers.

And yet by far the most homicides are committed using handguns. Rifles are used less frequently than knives, blunt objects and even "personal weapons" for that purpose, according to the FBI.

I did not say that there was nothing exceptional about rifles like AR15. They are obviously fine firearms. But they are not "military style", they are civilian. Military assault rifles have selective fire. Note also that many firearms started out in military use, even handguns like the Colt M1911 semiautomatic or the M1917 revolver.

We have tried repeatedly to educate you on this fact, but apparently you find the comfort of your ignorance too valuable to let go of.

No, I have repeatedly tried to educate you and some others, and yet you keep repeating your tired old talking points.

A link to the article would have been more useful than a screenshot. As I have already explained, ad nauseam, injuries are a function of the round being fired, not whether a rifle is a scary "assault weapon" (with the "shoulder thing that goes up") or not. Any rifle firing a similar cartridge will have similar ballistic properties and will cause similar injuries, like this bone fracture. It doesn't matter whether it is an AR15, a Ruger Mini 14 or a .223 Remington.
The Left loves to waste political capital on trying to ban so-called "assault weapons" with appeals to emotion even though they are used in a small minority of homicides. I think the reason the Left is so obsessed with these weapons is that the user base skews white and conservative. Urban thugs, like the 12 and 13 year old carjackers nabbed in Seattle yesterday, prefer handguns.

One more observation about those x-rays. Obviously there is more that goes into the injury than just the bullet ballistics. Was the range between the two shots comparable? Also, a head on hit is very different than a glancing one.
Also, the caption says the right X-ray shows a tibia hit by a "low-energy bullet". I would not exactly call a 9x19mm Parabellum (481-729 J) "low energy". I wonder if the wound was sustained by a .25 ACP (85-89 J) or a .22 short (60-118 J) instead.

 

[Derec]

There is a Kansas City, KS. It is just across the state line from the other one.

Makes sense. I still think that Du Jour must be in Louisiana though.

No, it's in Massachusetts.

 

[ZiprHead]

Multiple people shot during Eid festival in Philadelphia

At least three people have been shot and five have been arrested, after a shooting occurred at an Eid al-Fitr event in West Philadelphia, according to city police.

Local sources said the incident occurred during a festival where around 1,000 people had gathered to celebrate the holiday near Wyalusing Avenue in Philadelphia. Officers were already at the event “writing tickets” for nearby cars when gunshots were heard, police commissioner Kevin Bethel said

Gunfire had erupted in “two factions” within the park, Mr Bethel said, noting that they heard 30 shots fired.

An officer then “engaged” a 15-year-old male who had a weapon. The police officer fired, striking the teen in the shoulder and the leg.

A 22-year-old male was also shot in the stomach though he is believed to have been struck in the initial gunfire exchange. Another juvenile was also shot in the hands.


A total number of victims and their conditions is currently unkown, though police said there were no fatalities. The Philadelphia Fire Department told CBS News that at least one person was taken to the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia for treatment.

Four people have been taken into custody, according to the outlet, though it is unclear if police are considering the four suspects at this time. Multiple firearms have reportedly been seized by police.

The motive for the shooting was not immediately clear.

 

[Derec]

30 shots fired and only three injuries (including one shot by police)? Good thing they were rotten shots.
It also looks like some sort of gang dispute, with Eid worshippers having been caught in the crossfire.

 

[Jarhyn]

Multiple people shot during Eid festival in Philadelphia

At least three people have been shot and five have been arrested, after a shooting occurred at an Eid al-Fitr event in West Philadelphia, according to city police.

Local sources said the incident occurred during a festival where around 1,000 people had gathered to celebrate the holiday near Wyalusing Avenue in Philadelphia. Officers were already at the event “writing tickets” for nearby cars when gunshots were heard, police commissioner Kevin Bethel said

Gunfire had erupted in “two factions” within the park, Mr Bethel said, noting that they heard 30 shots fired.

An officer then “engaged” a 15-year-old male who had a weapon. The police officer fired, striking the teen in the shoulder and the leg.

A 22-year-old male was also shot in the stomach though he is believed to have been struck in the initial gunfire exchange. Another juvenile was also shot in the hands.


A total number of victims and their conditions is currently unkown, though police said there were no fatalities. The Philadelphia Fire Department told CBS News that at least one person was taken to the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia for treatment.

Four people have been taken into custody, according to the outlet, though it is unclear if police are considering the four suspects at this time. Multiple firearms have reportedly been seized by police.

The motive for the shooting was not immediately clear.

That's... Honestly surprising people didn't get killed...

 

[Loren Pechtel]

30 shots fired and only three injuries (including one shot by police)? Good thing they were rotten shots.
It also looks like some sort of gang dispute, with Eid worshippers having been caught in the crossfire.

Yeah, this is a dispute in a public place, not a mass shooting.

 

[Derec]

Yeah, this is a dispute in a public place, not a mass shooting.

Well, a dispute in a public space could still qualify depending on the definition.
However, this shooting had so few casualties that it would not qualify even under the most permissive definition (4 or more killed or injured including the shooter, any place, any motivation).

I wonder why Ziprhead chose to post about it.

 

[Derec]

That's... Honestly surprising people didn't get killed...

Not that surprising. Gang shootings often have low casualty numbers compared to the number of bullets expended.
I guess that's a good thing, expect that sometimes innocent people get shot because there are so many bullets that miss their targets.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Yeah, this is a dispute in a public place, not a mass shooting.

Well, a dispute in a public space could still qualify depending on the definition.
However, this shooting had so few casualties that it would not qualify even under the most permissive definition (4 or more killed or injured including the shooter, any place, any motivation).

I wonder why Ziprhead chose to post about it.

To me the fundamental aspect of "mass shooting" is that it's indiscriminate.

 

[bilby]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04...i-junction-evacuated-after-stabbing/103704952

Mass stabbing attack. Six dead, eight injured. Perpetrator shot dead by a lone police inspector who was on the scene by pure coincidence.

Apparently a mentally ill person who recently moved interstate (it seems to be worryingly common for mentally ill people who move interstate here to lose access to their medications and support).

(Waiting for the usual suspects to imply that this would have been no worse if the attacker had had an AR-15, and that therefore any restrictions on firearms are pointless and futile).

 

[Derec]

To me the fundamental aspect of "mass shooting" is that it's indiscriminate.

The point is that there is not a single definition of a "mass shooting". So one must be careful when looking at numbers. Looking at that infographic, there were 6 indiscriminate mass shootings in the US in 2021. But using the most permissive definitions, used by "Gun Violence Archive" and "Mass Shooting Tracker" there were 693 and 818 mass shootings, respectively. That's a difference of two orders of magnitude!

 

[Derec]

(Waiting for the usual suspects to imply that this would have been no worse if the attacker had had an AR-15, and that therefore any restrictions on firearms are pointless and futile).

I do not believe restrictions are futile and would like to see stricter rules implemented in the US in certain respects.
That said, it would not necessarily have been worse had this guy had an AR15. The shooter in Phily that Zipr posted about had an AR15. And yet he only wounded two and killed none before police shot him.

US Democrats are obsessed with AR15s and other so-called "assault weapons" even though vast majority of gun crime is committed using handguns. This obsession frankly hampers efforts at laws that might actually do some good.