Breakdown In Civil Order

[Jarhyn]

Never mind that for the VAST majority of primate existence, eating what you found was easy enough and few people ever actually participated in acquiring that food.

Seriously, bro, if you want to go back to a prehistoric existence, livingi n a cave and just hoping you don't get dysentery or starve to death, go find a mountainside to live on. There are plenty of spaces in the US that are untamed and you can live out your noble savage fantasy to your heart's content.

But don't think that you should be entitled to live your lotus-eater life while expecting other people to put in the hard work to keep you alive.

Ah, liberals. All heart, they are.

Jesus fuck, that was demented.

Nowhere on earth is there a place where people in America can just conveniently go find a mountainside to live on that is none of (cult), (protected park land), or (owned by someone else).

The power to do that without eventually being stopped is an extreme luxury these days. The only place it is really possible, especially in a community environment, is in a homeless encampment, and even that is illegal in many/most places.

And what fucking interminable gall to say the evolved state of humanity, the thing "that we have been the most for most of history" is "lotus eating".

 

[Jarhyn]

Solving the very broad issue of unhoused people is not likely to be a single one size fits all solution unless we want to simply incarcerate people for the crime of having nowhere to go.

Oh FFS, for like the fifteenth time spread across multiple threads:

1) Fund residential mental health facilities for those with severe mental health disorders, particularly those presenting with hallucination and/or delusion. These are people that are unable to care for themselves, unable to hold down a job. They need care in a place that keeps them safe as well as safeguarding the rest of society from them.

2) Involuntary rehab for drug abusers who are unable or unwilling to maintain a job while abstaining from substance abuse and undergoing effective outpatient therapy. I don't lump all drugs together, but the reality is that meth heads and a substantial number of opioid/opiate users cannot stop on their own.

3) Subsidized safe housing for those who do not have severe mental health or substance abuse disorders. I think it might be reasonable to provide separate housing for single adults than for families with children. This should include education and job training and a program to get them employed and into their own housing, not be a permanent dumping ground where nothing else is done except shelter. The objective should be independence.

4) Substantial investment in young childhood education, and an emphasis throughout primary and secondary school on the skills and knowledge needed to be an independent contributor to society.

I have given this same run down multiple times in multiple threads, and I'm sick to fucking death of people with an axe to grind and a complete lack of integrity repeatedly turning around and pretending like none of it exists and then proceeding to pull bullshit out of their asses and pretend like I want to throw everyone in jail or see them die. It's malicious, it's evil, and it's dishonest.

And you believe that the Republican party supports these policies?

Nor do I think much of your solutions, even on their own merits. What exactly is "involuntary rehab"? Do you point a gun at someone and force them to say the twelve steps, or what? How can a rehabilitation process possibly be involuntary? Rehab is less than fully effective when the sufferer is trying their best to cooperate.

Not to mention that forcing someone into some form of closed environment because they do not conform to your social expectations, especially in a climate where those social expectations veer away from acknowledgement of the human condition itself, seems particularly bent as a worldview.

You know, there was a famous work camp that became something else about 80 years ago. "Work makes us free".

The thing is, Nazism or rather the end result of all fascism doesn't look like most people today expect. It doesn't always or even ever really start out looking like red arm bands and goose stepping marches through streets. Sure, some people will be so obvious but the reason it actually works is because they can and do regularly couch it in terms people can find at sufficiently comfortable.

If it didn't at least sound a bit reasonable when presented in such pusillanimous terms (such as "involuntary rehabilitation") to hide, disregard, or otherwise hold themselves in ignorance of what that means to be executed at scale, they would never get off the ground. It will always been put in terms to make apprehending, warehousing, and ultimately forcing people to act some highly contrived way will sooner lead to direct resistance and humans rights abuse than people happily acting that way.

 

[Toni]

Solving the very broad issue of unhoused people is not likely to be a single one size fits all solution unless we want to simply incarcerate people for the crime of having nowhere to go.

Oh FFS, for like the fifteenth time spread across multiple threads:

1) Fund residential mental health facilities for those with severe mental health disorders, particularly those presenting with hallucination and/or delusion. These are people that are unable to care for themselves, unable to hold down a job. They need care in a place that keeps them safe as well as safeguarding the rest of society from them.

2) Involuntary rehab for drug abusers who are unable or unwilling to maintain a job while abstaining from substance abuse and undergoing effective outpatient therapy. I don't lump all drugs together, but the reality is that meth heads and a substantial number of opioid/opiate users cannot stop on their own.

3) Subsidized safe housing for those who do not have severe mental health or substance abuse disorders. I think it might be reasonable to provide separate housing for single adults than for families with children. This should include education and job training and a program to get them employed and into their own housing, not be a permanent dumping ground where nothing else is done except shelter. The objective should be independence.

4) Substantial investment in young childhood education, and an emphasis throughout primary and secondary school on the skills and knowledge needed to be an independent contributor to society.

I have given this same run down multiple times in multiple threads, and I'm sick to fucking death of people with an axe to grind and a complete lack of integrity repeatedly turning around and pretending like none of it exists and then proceeding to pull bullshit out of their asses and pretend like I want to throw everyone in jail or see them die. It's malicious, it's evil, and it's dishonest.

And you believe that the Republican party supports these policies?

Nor do I think much of your solutions, even on their own merits. What exactly is "involuntary rehab"? Do you point a gun at someone and force them to say the twelve steps, or what? How can a rehabilitation process possibly be involuntary? Rehab is less than fully effective when the sufferer is trying their best to cooperate.

It used to be the case (and maybe still is) that you could have someone involuntarily committed for drug detox and/or for serious mental health crisis. 72 hr. hold. My inlaws tried that in desperation with my BIL who had serious substance abuse issues. It did not work.

I understand that there are circumstances where it can work: say someone with serious bipolar disorder or schizophrenia feels better on their meds, to the extent that they believe they don't need the meds anymore, so they go off, lose their equilibrium and need hospitalization in order to stabilize again. This is me, making up the circumstance under which involuntary commitment might be worthwhile. I do know absolutely that it is an issue for some people with some psychiatric illnesses going off their meds, believing they are cured or feeling that the side effects are causing them more problems than the disease.