Breakdown In Civil Order

[Hermit]

Cushy prisons clearly lead to greater murder rates.

That kind of nonsense is what passes for discourse here now?
Nobody claimed anything of the sort. You are merely knocking down straw men of your own creation.

So, what are you claiming when you wrote

prisons in say Netherlands or Sweden are too cushy

 

[Derec]

Or rather, we ignore the crimes of the wealthy and obsess over the crimes of the poor.

Do we? Can you back that up?

 

[Derec]

So, what are you claiming when you wrote

I certainly wasn't claiming nothing even remotely close to your ridiculous straw man.
Starting with the facile notion that murder rates are monocausal.

 

[Oleg]

Well, those graphs prove it. Poverty and minorities only exist in America.

Poverty does not cause crime.

Jean Valjean would disagree.

The comparision to other Anglo and European countries - or even to low-crime Asian countries - is misleading as these countries have different demograpics.

If we go by the stats, it is Brazilians and South Africans that kill the most. Good luck with the "demographics" Venn Diagram there.

Are you unaware of the demographics of those countries?

 

[Derec]

Someone who supports prosecuting violent crime is "pro-crime"???

He is not willing to prosecute many crimes.
Sure, he likes prosecuting political opponents and police officers.
Other people, including gun criminals? Not so much.
Arrest This Development
This despite acknowledging that there is a spike in gun crimes.
District Attorney Larry Krasner Apologizes For Comments Surrounding Philadelphia's Crime Crisis

He has rather sensible policies.

Like what? Giving many criminals, including gun criminals, a pass if they are under 25? How is that "sensible"?

Back to The Intercept.

Intercept is a rag. Just btw.

GOP ire toward Krasner’s reform efforts — like implementing diversion programs for certain first-time nonviolent gun possession cases

Which is a wrong policy if your goal is to reduce gun crime.
Also, are you sure that it is for "first time" offenders only? Elsewhere I have seen no such qualification, only in Intercept. Hmm.
This article indicates that it is not just first offender gun criminals who are getting leniency from the Philly DA's office.
Subject Of Search Warrant In Cop Murder Should Have Been In Jail

The overwhelmingly successful contempt vote, for which members had only a few hours’ notice, was held on the same day as the city’s first murder trial of an on-duty cop, whom Krasner had charged in October 2020 for the 2017 killing of a young Black man, 25-year-old Dennis Plowden. Krasner’s office has pursued police accountability and drawn fire from police and their union throughout his time in office.

Police he will gladly prosecute. Gun-toting bangers or thieves, not so much.
Meet Larry Krasner, the Rogue Prosecutor Wreaking Havoc in Philadelphia

 

[Derec]

Yes, unless the violence they prosecute is against property.

Property crimes are crimes against people, as people own property.
If some teenage car thieves steal your car, it is not the car that is the victim, it is you.

Violence against people is always black-on-black and can be disregarded. Prosecuting that would be futile, and a waste of time.

Who here is saying that violent crime should not be prosecuted? Regardless of the race of the victim.
But at the same time, that does not mean that property crimes, such as shoplifting, car thefts and burglaries should not be prosecuted. And too many of these "progressive" prosecutors are giving property criminals a pass.

In the ideal conservotard world though, property (or its proxy, money) wouldn’t just have the vote, it would have the ONLY vote.

Moronic insults and straw men is all you have.

 

[Derec]

Elsewhere, a 13 year old carjacker who robbed people at gunpoint, receives no jail time but plenty of support by the corrupt NOLA mayor.
Victims speak out after New Orleans mayor supports 13-year-old sentenced for carjacking

That is sending a message to these teens that there are no meaningful consequences for such behavior.

 

[Hermit]

So, what are you claiming when you wrote

I certainly wasn't claiming nothing even remotely close to your ridiculous straw man.

So, what are you claiming when you wrote

prisons in say Netherlands or Sweden are too cushy

Starting with the facile notion that murder rates are monocausal.

Nobody has claimed that murder rates are monocausal. I for one have been arguing that the rate of privately owned handguns and rifles are among other factors influence them.

 

[Oleg]

I for one have been arguing that the rate of privately owned handguns and rifles are among other factors influence them.

The rate of llegally held guns, sure. And that's kind of the problem. The lefty solution is always to go after point of sale rather than point of use. Despite the narrative push, the NRA suburbanite who legally bought his safe full of guns is of little threat. Yet, if perps get caught with illegal guns or use guns in crimes, the message to to let them off, little or no bail, for social justice. Insanity.

 

[Patooka]

Yet, if perps get caught with illegal guns or use guns in crimes, the message to to let them off, little or no bail,

Any actual proof there is a leftist agenda to accomplish this, as you claim?

 

[Hermit]

Men commit more crime than women. No matter what society or culture. Accepting that group differences exist is helpful in understanding why things happen.

So is the relationship between the level of income and the likelihood of becoming a criminal.

 

[Hermit]

I for one have been arguing that the rate of privately owned handguns and rifles are among other factors influence them.

The rate of llegally held guns, sure.

Where do illegally held guns come from? Here is a hint: In 2021 alone 4751 pistols, 2132 rifles, 1011 shotguns, 691 revolvers and 22 machine guns were reported stolen or lost.

 

[bilby]

Cushy prisons clearly lead to greater murder rates.

That kind of nonsense is what passes for discourse here now?
Nobody claimed anything of the sort. You are merely knocking down straw men of your own creation.

So, what are you claiming when you wrote

prisons in say Netherlands or Sweden are too cushy

Well the context was my comment that harsh prison conditions in the US do nothing to reduce recidivism; So presumably Derec thinks that the "cushy" Dutch and Swedish prisons also lead to high recidivism rates - but when asked for evidence, he's got zip...

 

[Hermit]

Cushy prisons clearly lead to greater murder rates.

That kind of nonsense is what passes for discourse here now?
Nobody claimed anything of the sort. You are merely knocking down straw men of your own creation.

So, what are you claiming when you wrote

prisons in say Netherlands or Sweden are too cushy

Well the context was my comment that harsh prison conditions in the US do nothing to reduce recidivism; So presumably Derec thinks that the "cushy" Dutch and Swedish prisons also lead to high recidivism rates - but when asked for evidence, he's got zip...

Thanks, bilby, but I am really keen for Derec to explain what he means when he wrote that "prisons in say Netherlands or Sweden are too cushy" in his own words.

So, for the third time, @Derec, what are you claiming when you wrote

prisons in say Netherlands or Sweden are too cushy

?

 

[Jarhyn]

Cushy prisons clearly lead to greater murder rates.

That kind of nonsense is what passes for discourse here now?
Nobody claimed anything of the sort. You are merely knocking down straw men of your own creation.

So, what are you claiming when you wrote

prisons in say Netherlands or Sweden are too cushy

Well the context was my comment that harsh prison conditions in the US do nothing to reduce recidivism; So presumably Derec thinks that the "cushy" Dutch and Swedish prisons also lead to high recidivism rates - but when asked for evidence, he's got zip...

Thanks, bilby, but I am really keen for Derec to explain what he means when he wrote that "prisons in say Netherlands or Sweden are too cushy" in his own words.

So, for the third time, @Derec, what are you claiming when you wrote

prisons in say Netherlands or Sweden are too cushy

?

Yeah, I want to see this, too.

 

[Elixir]

Property crimes are crimes against people, as people own property.

Yeah, I know, and money is speech. To conservotards.

Yet, if perps get caught with illegal guns or use guns in crimes, the message to to let them off, little or no bail,

Any actual proof there is a leftist agenda to accomplish this, as you claim?

It's the RW talking point. A hollow point, coincidentally.

 

[TSwizzle]

Krasner: It's working;

Considering the unprecedented murder surge in America's cities over the last two years, one might expect progressive district attorneys to reconsider the policies that have kept criminals out of jails and on the streets. Think again. Last week, Philadelphia district attorney Larry Krasner told a local television news anchor he's not prepared to change course. 'It is working,' Krasner claimed, a few days after another mass shooting had killed a 14-year-old football player and wounded four of his teammates following a high school scrimmage. The anchor noted incredulously that a thousand people had been killed in Philadelphia over 20 months. 'It is working,' insisted Krasner. Krasner apparently defines a policy as 'working' when it contributes to the highest number of murders and the highest murder rate in a city's history, a record number of carjackings, the routine looting of stores, and savage beatings of innocent pedestrians. Krasner has a knack for denying the undeniable.

Daily Mail

 

[lpetrich]

If Larry Krasner is focusing on violent crimes, then he is focusing on the sorts of crimes that the Daily Mail author got worked up about.

BTW, TSwizzle, Derec, Oleg, how is claimed toughness on crime working out in places like Bakersfield CA and Jacksonville FL? Their mayors are Republicans.

 

[steve_bank]

Yesterday in Seattle 3 teens two boys one girl all armed followed a woman home and stole her car at gunpoint. The police got them after a chase and a crash.

This is not isolated. Why are teens today across demogrphics commiting these kinds of crimes?

 

[Oleg]

Yesterday in Seattle 3 teens two boys one girl all armed followed a woman home and stole her car at gunpoint. The police got them after a chase and a crash.

This is not isolated. Why are teens today across demogrphics commiting these kinds of crimes?

Because they know their age will spare them from significant punishment. If we incentivize bad behavior, we get more of it. Shocking.