Breakdown In Civil Order

[Politesse]

Who voted for that?

When they voted for Karen Bass, the black woman who is personally responsible for every crime in the city.

 

[Derec]

When they voted for Karen Bass, the black woman who is personally responsible for every crime in the city.

This is a pretty stupid strawman. Nobody is claiming that Karen Bass, as poor a choice for mayor as she is, is "personally responsible for every crime in the city".
And what does it have to do with her being a black woman? George Gascon is a white man, and he is also responsible for poor policies incentivizing crime in Los Angeles.

All that said, Karen Bass was a poor choice for mayor. She is, how do you say, communista simpática, having praised Fidel Castro and a US communist party leader, and was also part of the comminist Venceremos Brigade in Cuba. She is also friendly toward the racist and antisemitic Nation of Islam

When Karen Bass Went to Work in Castro’s Cuba
Karen Bass eulogized Communist Party USA leader
EXCLUSIVE: Karen Bass Denies Links To Nation Of Islam, Despite Photos And Event Appearances, But Doesn’t Disavow Radical Group

 

[Derec]

Who voted for that?

53.5% of LA County voters

 

[Jarhyn]

Who voted for that?

53.5% of LA County voters

So now we're back to "Karen Bass is responsible for all the crimes in her district".

You do realize that in Minneapolis, I was witness to a couple violent crimes on the train platform over the course of my employment on that commute, and yet Minneapolis has, on average, very low crime.

The fact is that you can find all manner of case study to create an illusion of unsafe cities, but the reality is that it is statistically very safe to live in such progressive places.

 

[Derec]

So now we're back to "Karen Bass is responsible for all the crimes in her district".

George Gascon is the one who got 53.5% in 2020, not Karen Bass. And while he is not responsible for all crimes in LA County, he is responsible for policies that inadequately address crime, for example murder by teenage gang assassins.

You do realize that in Minneapolis, I was witness to a couple violent crimes on the train platform over the course of my employment on that commute

Well your DA, Mary Moriarty, who hired a murderer to work on her campaign, is hardly better than Gascon.

, and yet Minneapolis has, on average, very low crime.

Does it? [citation needed]. I have looked at  List of United States cities by crime rate.
Overall crime is higher in Minneapolis than Atlanta, DC or even New Orleans. Sorting by violent crime Minneapolis is also higher than Chicago.

The fact is that you can find all manner of case study to create an illusion of unsafe cities, but the reality is that it is statistically very safe to live in such progressive places.

I would not call it very safe when you witness several violent crimes on train platforms alone.

 

[Jarhyn]

So now we're back to "Karen Bass is responsible for all the crimes in her district".

George Gascon is the one who got 53.5% in 2020, not Karen Bass. And while he is not responsible for all crimes in LA County, he is responsible for policies that inadequately address crime, for example murder by teenage gang assassins.

You do realize that in Minneapolis, I was witness to a couple violent crimes on the train platform over the course of my employment on that commute

Well your DA, Mary Moriarty, who hired a murderer to work on her campaign, is hardly better than Gascon.

, and yet Minneapolis has, on average, very low crime.

Does it? [citation needed]. I have looked at  List of United States cities by crime rate.
Overall crime is higher in Minneapolis than Atlanta, DC or even New Orleans. Sorting by violent crime Minneapolis is also higher than Chicago.

The fact is that you can find all manner of case study to create an illusion of unsafe cities, but the reality is that it is statistically very safe to live in such progressive places.

I would not call it very safe when you witness several violent crimes on train platforms alone.

So, you mean the policies that inadequately address "those people", not crime, right? Right?

 

[Derec]

So, you mean the policies that inadequately address "those people", not crime, right? Right?

Who are "those people"? Gang enforcers like this guy?
Gascón stops effort to prosecute juvenile gang murderer as adult; victim’s family outraged
Crime spiked in 2020, so it is hardly surprising it will come down from that peak somewhat. That does not mean that Gascon, Bragg, Moriarty et al are not implementing very damaging policies.

 

[ZiprHead]

I would not call it very safe when you witness several violent crimes on train platforms alone.

So several out of the hundreds of thousands of people that pass through that area.

 

[Jarhyn]

I would not call it very safe when you witness several violent crimes on train platforms alone.

So several out of the hundreds of thousands of people that pass through that area.

I know right? I wonder how many unique people Derec has encountered across their life, how many people they LET themselves encounter...

Of course, my exposure is to poor people as much as it is to people who have money. There are many things Minneapolis could do to become safer than it is, to be sure... But all those methodologies would make Minneapolis more "socialist" and are heavily fought against by people who would rather attack the poor than help them.

It's one of the safest cities in the country, and one I hear people commonly saying how nice the city is... And I hear a lot of people on public transit talk about a lot of things.

It sounds like Derec wants to perversely do exactly the opposite of what made Minneapolis such a nice city to live in, and do exactly what the people who would turn it into a shithole want.

 

[Emily Lake]

As time goes on I have less and less fucks to give about catalytic converter thieves on account of giving fewer fucks about catalytic converter owners...

You know that means you have fewer and fewer fucks about poor people, right?

EVs are still unobtainable for a lot of poor people in urban areas, as well as being damned near useless for people living in even moderately rural areas.

 

[lpetrich]

Police Unions, GOP Want Reform DA Removed from Cop’s Case - March 22 2024, 1:34 p.m. - "Reform-minded district attorneys like Minnesota’s Mary Moriarty are facing backlash for prosecuting police shootings and misconduct."

Seems plausible. Consider:

California AG Ends San Francisco’s First Prosecution for an On-Duty Police Killing | Bolts - May 19, 2023 - "Rob Bonta, who campaigned on holding police accountable, this week declined to pick up the charges dropped by DA Brooke Jenkins after she succeeded Chesa Boudin last year."

 

[Derec]

Police Unions, GOP Want Reform DA Removed from Cop’s Case - March 22 2024, 1:34 p.m. - "Reform-minded district attorneys like Minnesota’s Mary Moriarty are facing backlash for prosecuting police shootings and misconduct."

Teh Intercept, LMAO!

Mary Moriarty is yet another far-left fauxgressive DA who is soft on actual crime, but rejoices in prosecuting police officers, even if they did nothing wrong. She also hired a murderer when she campaigned for DA.

The controversy erupted around the prosecution of a state trooper who shot and killed 33-year-old Ricky Cobb II, a Black man, during a traffic stop in July. Moriarty’s office said the trooper’s use of deadly force against Cobb was not justified.

Except that Ricky Cobb assaulted the police officers with his car.

In body camera video released by the State Patrol, trooper Brett Seide approaches on the driver’s side and eventually asks Cobb to step out of the car and hand over the car keys, saying he’d explain what’s happening once Cobb stepped out of the vehicle. Seconds later, the troopers open the car doors on both sides and Cobb starts to drive away.
In the video, Londregan, the trooper on the passenger side, appears to fire several shots into the car before falling to the ground as Cobb drives away.
[...]
Londregan and Seide suffered minor injuries during the confrontation, the BCA said. Seide has two years of law enforcement experience. Garrett Erickson, the third trooper who responded, has about three years of law enforcement experience and was not injured, the BCA added. The three troopers are on standard administrative leave.

Constituents were increasingly casting their ballots for criminal justice reformers who ran on prosecuting police for misconduct and killing of civilians, ending cash bail, and curtailing the prosecution of nonviolent offenses.

Just because something is a non-violent offence (for example fraud or theft) does not mean it should not be prosecuted. I mean, Trump was convicted of misreporting a payment on a form, very non-violent. But I guess that's an exception for these "criminal justice reformers" who do not want to prosecute thieves, and only want to prosecute robbers as thieves.

In Moriarty’s case, the attacks have also come from one-time allies.

Cobb’s killing is not the first case in which Moriarty was threatened with removal for adhering to the reforms she ran on in 2020. Last year, Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison took over another case from Moriarty in which she had declined to charge two teens accused of murder as adults.

I mentioned this case earlier. Moriarty wanted the teenage murderers to serve two years in juvi. Ridiculous.
She is too far left even for somebody like Keith Ellison. That should tell you something.

California AG Ends San Francisco’s First Prosecution for an On-Duty Police Killing | Bolts - May 19, 2023 - "Rob Bonta, who campaigned on holding police accountable, this week declined to pick up the charges dropped by DA Brooke Jenkins after she succeeded Chesa Boudin last year."

Keita O'Neal assaulted and carjacked a woman before charging the officer.

Police: SF cop fatally shoots man who carjacked state lottery van

A San Francisco police officer shot and killed a suspected carjacker who had injured a state lottery worker, stole her minivan and led police on a chase into a public housing complex in the city’s Bayview neighborhood on Friday, officials said.

Case dropped against SF cop who shot Keita O’Neil

The AG’s office has been reviewing the historic case against Samayoa, which was brought in 2020 by former District Attorney Chesa Boudin before being dismissed earlier this year by his political rival and successor, Brooke Jenkins.
Jenkins, who claimed the case was filed for political reasons, offered the case to the attorney general in February, claiming that she could not pursue it.
[...]
In the statement, Bonta outlined his reasons for not taking the case, including a simulation that Samayoa had done in during his training where a suspect jumped out of a van and ran toward him. In the simulation, Samayoa was shot, and therefore his belief that he needed to defend himself against O’Neil — who also jumped out of a van and began running — was reasonable, Bonta said.

The only one who wanted the officer charged is the terrorist spawn former DA Chesa Boudin,. The scandal here is not that the charges were dropped, but that San Francisco paid $2.5M to the thug's family. I guess crime does pay after all, at least for families of certain criminals ...

 

[Derec]

I know right? I wonder how many unique people Derec has encountered across their life, how many people they LET themselves encounter...

"Their"? Stop mispluralizing me! I may contain multitudes, but I still go by a singular pronoun.
I have encountered a lot of people in my life. And while I may not use public transit much these days, I rode the MARTA trains a lot back in the day. Unlike you, I can't say I have witnessed any violent crimes on the platforms, just the usual share of train crazies muttering and carrying on.

Of course, my exposure is to poor people as much as it is to people who have money.

Me too, actually.

There are many things Minneapolis could do to become safer than it is, to be sure... But all those methodologies would make Minneapolis more "socialist" and are heavily fought against by people who would rather attack the poor than help them.

I disagree. One thing that would make Minneapolis safer is to get rid of fauxgressives like Mary Moriarty. That's not socialist.

It's one of the safest cities in the country,

I have already shown that this is a falsehood. You soundly ignored it.

and one I hear people commonly saying how nice the city is... And I hear a lot of people on public transit talk about a lot of things.

I do not doubt parts of it are nice, although I never had the occasion to visit your fair city. That does not mean you do not have some poor leadership.

It sounds like Derec wants to perversely do exactly the opposite of what made Minneapolis such a nice city to live in, and do exactly what the people who would turn it into a shithole want.

Nope. Getting rid of people like Moriarty or the Islamists and their useful idiots on the city council who pushed through an ordinance allowing mosques to blare noise at all hours. They are the ones making the city shittier.

 

[Derec]

So several out of the hundreds of thousands of people that pass through that area.

We are talking only about those whom Jarhyn personally witnessed though.
Actual numbers falsify Jarhyn's claim that Minneapolis is one of the safest cities in the US.
  List of United States cities by crime rate
22nd out of 100 biggest cities for crime overall, 16th for violent crime (ahead of Chicago even which is #17) , 43rd for murder and non-negligent homicide and 4th for rape.

 

[Derec]

I think the government needs to stop subsidizing ICE and fossil fuel industries and spend all that money and suspend all defense development contracts for ICE and other fuel based military projects and spend that money on getting the country off gasoline and into electrics.

Gasoline is heavily taxed. Where do you see subsidies?
EVs are heavily subsidized, and rightly so to encourage transition, but to pretend it is the opposite is just ridiculous.

It's time for buy-backs of ICE vehicles and EV vouchers.

No, it isn't. The EV market share is relatively low still and by far the most new cars sold have ICE engines in them.
Time for any buybacks will be maybe 10 years after sales of new ICE cars have been banned. Not even California is going to do that until 2035, and federal government no earlier than 2040, if at all.

 

[Derec]

You know that means you have fewer and fewer fucks about poor people, right?

Not just poor people. Lower middle class and even many mid-middle class folks can't afford a $40-100k new EV. They will most often buy used and if new, they are more likely to buy a cheaper ICE car

EVs are still unobtainable for a lot of poor people in urban areas, as well as being damned near useless for people living in even moderately rural areas.

And if you live in a house with a garage, it is relatively easy to install a Level 2 charger. If you live in an apartment or even a condo, there are probably no chargers provided by the building. This will change over time, but people like Jarhyn do not realize that such massive structural change takes time.

 

[Jarhyn]

The EV market share is relatively low still and by far the most new cars sold

You criticize me about putting forward a policy to help poor people, and yet now you're giving more fucks about the rich people who were told "we need to stop this, shift to producing EVs".

Market share is a function in many cases of promotion and availability at affordable cost, and especially so for vehicles, and production capacity is largely driven by subsidies to the auto industry. When the auto industry was collapsing in the US and there were Bailouts, there was no expectation to point this subsidy at EV production. There needs to be both a political will to subsidize production and purchase of electric vehicles, and to tax producers of ICE vehicles.

Does this enforce influence over the free market? You bet it does.

Is it socialism? By parts yes, by other parts no.

 

[robnisch]

Until they solve more of the problems with batteries EVs will never replace ICE.

 

[Rhea]

EVs are still unobtainable for a lot of poor people in urban areas, as well as being damned near useless for people living in even moderately rural areas.

No, not really true.
I am rural. I have an EV.
Indeed, it’s an older EV with a range of under 70 miles in the summer, under 50 in the winter.

When you are rural, you have space to have more than one car. So you use your EV for every day driving, and your ICE pick-up when you need to do something bigger or farther, or when it’s so cold your EV won’t make enough miles for the commute.

I use my EV for every day commuting, I plug it in to the 110 outlet in the garage every night, where it has 12+ hours to charge. Every other week or so I need to go further, like to a neighboring town for shopping or supplies, so I take a different car.

City folks can’t easily have 2 cars per family, but country folks usually do. EVs are perfect for this, actually.

 

[Derec]

You criticize me about putting forward a policy to help poor people,

Which policy do you mean? A policy is not good or bad based on whether it purports to help poor people, and the devil is usually in the details.

and yet now you're giving more fucks about the rich people who were told "we need to stop this, shift to producing EVs".

I do not get your point here. Can you please deobfuscate?

Market share is a function in many cases of promotion and availability at affordable cost, and especially so for vehicles, and production capacity is largely driven by subsidies to the auto industry.

Electric vehicles are heavily subsidized. And the technology has made huge strides over the last 20 years. But it will take time for most people to drive EVs due to several factors such as price and charging infrastructure and charging time.

When the auto industry was collapsing in the US and there were Bailouts, there was no expectation to point this subsidy at EV production.

That was in 2008. EV technology was far less mature back then, and far more expensive. That was the first year Tesla Roadster was offered for sale, and the MSRP was $98k ($143k in 2024 dollars). The cheaper Nissan Leaf would not premier until 3 years later and its starting MSRP was $33k ($46k in 2024 dollars). Pricy for a compact car!

There needs to be both a political will to subsidize production and purchase of electric vehicles, and to tax producers of ICE vehicles.

EVs are already subsidized, and research into batteries is funded by the government. Gasoline and diesel fuels are heavily taxed.
This is already going on. You can say that gas tax should be increased more, or that there should be more EV subsidies, but you can't say that it's not going on already.