Covid-19 miscellany

[ZiprHead]

Florida changed its COVID-19 data, creating an ‘artificial decline’ in recent deaths

As cases ballooned in August, however, the Florida Department of Health changed the way it reported death data to the CDC, giving the appearance of a pandemic in decline, an analysis of Florida data by the Miami Herald and el Nuevo Herald found.

On Monday, Florida death data would have shown an average of 262 daily deaths reported to the CDC over the previous week had the health department used its former reporting system, the Herald analysis showed. Instead, the Monday update from Florida showed just 46 “new deaths” per day over the previous seven days.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

That is hardly news. Florida pulled a pyramid scheme with Covid related stats. The problem with pyramid schemes is you run out of time. DeSantis's policies got Floridians killed... again...

 

[southernhybrid]

This is one of the most insane things I've read today.

https://www.ajc.com/politics/politics-blog/the-jolt-anti-vaxxers-shut-down-vaccination-event-harass-state-health-workers/KJBPDZ5NCBHSHPSBUI5IYMNR6U/

"The headlines out of Gov. Brian Kemp’s latest press conference focused on the thousands of Georgia National Guard troops he’s preparing to deploy to help hospitals fight the pandemic.


But it was Dr. Kathleen Toomey who stopped us in our tracks when she revealed that anti-vaxxer protesters had disrupted several vaccination drives -- and forced one to shut down.

We asked aides to Toomey, the state’s top health official, to elaborate. Her office promptly detailed how public health staff “have been harassed, yelled at, threatened and demeaned by some of the very members of the public they were trying to help.”


In one south Georgia county, the anti-vaxxers tracked down public health employees through social media and harangued them with messages of hostility and misinformation about vaccines.

And the event that was canceled was a north Georgia mobile vaccination event, where an organized group of people showed up to harass and name-call public health workers."]The headlines out of Gov. Brian Kemp’s latest press conference focused on the thousands of Georgia National Guard troops he’s preparing to deploy to help hospitals fight the pandemic.


But it was Dr. Kathleen Toomey who stopped us in our tracks when she revealed that anti-vaxxer protesters had disrupted several vaccination drives -- and forced one to shut down.

So, not only do these nutty people not want the vaccine, they don't want anyone to have it. WTF!

 

[Swammerdami]

And now an Ohio judge has ordered a hospital to treat a covid patient with Ivermectin.

Seems the patient's wife found a doctor crazy enough to write a prescription for it, but the hospital was refusing to administer it.

Clearly, judges do not take any oath to 'do no harm.'

Am I correct that such a judicial order — perhaps commanding a physician to violate his Hippocratic Oath — is quite unusual? If so, it is further demonstration of how far into madness the U.S. has sunk.

Note that the same ilk applauding this order would throw a conniption if the judge had ordered a baker to make a wedding cake.

 

[Keith&Co.]

And now an Ohio judge has ordered a hospital to treat a covid patient with Ivermectin.

Seems the patient's wife found a doctor crazy enough to write a prescription for it, but the hospital was refusing to administer it.

Clearly, judges do not take any oath to 'do no harm.'

Am I correct that such a judicial order — perhaps commanding a physician to violate his Hippocratic Oath — is quite unusual?

No, not really. The judge is just affirming the patient's rights to choose a doctor and the treatment he wants. Or the woman holding his medical proxy.
And the hospital probably has her sign a 20-page release.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Am I correct that such a judicial order — perhaps commanding a physician to violate his Hippocratic Oath — is quite unusual?

No, not really. The judge is just affirming the patient's rights to choose a doctor and the treatment he wants. Or the woman holding his medical proxy.
And the hospital probably has her sign a 20-page release.

In general I would agree, but in this case I can't see how the doctor could have legally written the prescription.

 

[Toni]

And now an Ohio judge has ordered a hospital to treat a covid patient with Ivermectin.

Seems the patient's wife found a doctor crazy enough to write a prescription for it, but the hospital was refusing to administer it.

Clearly, judges do not take any oath to 'do no harm.'

Am I correct that such a judicial order — perhaps commanding a physician to violate his Hippocratic Oath — is quite unusual? If so, it is further demonstration of how far into madness the U.S. has sunk.

Note that the same ilk applauding this order would throw a conniption if the judge had ordered a baker to make a wedding cake.

I would think that no judge could force a hospital to violate its policies about administering quack treatments.

I'm not saying that the man could not be administered that treatment but rather that a judge had no authority to insist that the hospital allow any doctor to do so. I'm a little shocked that the hospital's legal team did not file an injunction.

 

[Keith&Co.]

Am I correct that such a judicial order — perhaps commanding a physician to violate his Hippocratic Oath — is quite unusual?

No, not really. The judge is just affirming the patient's rights to choose a doctor and the treatment he wants. Or the woman holding his medical proxy.
And the hospital probably has her sign a 20-page release.

In general I would agree, but in this case I can't see how the doctor could have legally written the prescription.

That may lead to complications further down the road, sure. But right now, there are doctors willing to feed the desires of the criminally suggestible. I hope such doctors get the same treatment as the lawyers that pushed Trump's election lies...

 

[bilby]

https://www.ajc.com/politics/politics-blog/the-jolt-anti-vaxxers-shut-down-vaccination-event-harass-state-health-workers/KJBPDZ5NCBHSHPSBUI5IYMNR6U/

"The headlines out of Gov. Brian Kemp’s latest press conference focused on the thousands of Georgia National Guard troops he’s preparing to deploy to help hospitals fight the pandemic.


But it was Dr. Kathleen Toomey who stopped us in our tracks when she revealed that anti-vaxxer protesters had disrupted several vaccination drives -- and forced one to shut down.

We asked aides to Toomey, the state’s top health official, to elaborate. Her office promptly detailed how public health staff “have been harassed, yelled at, threatened and demeaned by some of the very members of the public they were trying to help.”


In one south Georgia county, the anti-vaxxers tracked down public health employees through social media and harangued them with messages of hostility and misinformation about vaccines.

And the event that was canceled was a north Georgia mobile vaccination event, where an organized group of people showed up to harass and name-call public health workers."]The headlines out of Gov. Brian Kemp’s latest press conference focused on the thousands of Georgia National Guard troops he’s preparing to deploy to help hospitals fight the pandemic.


But it was Dr. Kathleen Toomey who stopped us in our tracks when she revealed that anti-vaxxer protesters had disrupted several vaccination drives -- and forced one to shut down.

So, not only do these nutty people not want the vaccine, they don't want anyone to have it. WTF!

Well, it's about freedom of choice. I demand the right to choose for myself whether or not you get the vaccine.

It's like you don't even understand how freedom works.

 

[ZiprHead]

Candace Owens reportedly hit with "sudden illness," claims it's absolutely not COVID

 

[repoman]

Candace Owens reportedly hit with "sudden illness," claims it's absolutely not COVID

As I said before as the information has come in with the vaccine not being the godsend for stopping transmission but being pretty good for serious illness, it is a matter of getting accurate side effect profile of the vaccines.

But if someone is touting the immunity from getting covid (and it seems that it is excellent, much better than the vaccine) why wouldn't you leverage the vaccine to make getting the infection derived immunity in a much safer way?!? This is a no brainer.

A selfish, still young and slim scammer like Candace Owens doesn't care that a lot of her fans are in a worse statistical category than her.

 

[repoman]

Not talking about covid and ivermectin, but the assertion that it is not rock solid FDA approved for it is not a sensible reason for it not to be used at all. Maybe the evidence actually is crap and it is a bad idea or maybe it meets a threshhold of risk/reward. But again lack of full rock solid FDA approval does not rule out off label usage. This is from the CDC website about ivermectin for use with scabies.

I bolded the part saying it is a last resort

https://www.cdc.gov/parasites/scabies/health_professionals/meds.html

Ivermectin Brand name product: Stromectol* Ivermectin is an oral antiparasitic agent approved for the treatment of worm infestations. Evidence suggests that oral ivermectin may be a safe and effective treatment for scabies; however, ivermectin is not FDA-approved for this use. Oral ivermectin should be considered for patients who have failed treatment with or who cannot tolerate FDA-approved topical medications for the treatment of scabies. If used for classic scabies, two doses of oral ivermectin (200µg/kg/dose) should be taken with food, each approximately one week apart. The safety of ivermectin in children weighing less than 15 kg and in pregnant women has not been established.
Note that although ivermectin guidelines recommend taking on an empty stomach, scabies experts recommend taking with a meal to increase bioavailability (CITE NEJM Currie article).

Are you lunatic radicals going to the CDC headquarters with pitchforks over this scabies usage allowance?

 

[Shadowy Man]

…the assertion that it is not rock solid FDA approved for it is not a sensible reason for it not to be used at all.

It seemed to be a good reason for some of the folks who wouldn’t get a vaccine. Hmm…

 

[Toni]

Not talking about covid and ivermectin, but the assertion that it is not rock solid FDA approved for it is not a sensible reason for it not to be used at all. Maybe the evidence actually is crap and it is a bad idea or maybe it meets a threshhold of risk/reward. But again lack of full rock solid FDA approval does not rule out off label usage. This is from the CDC website about ivermectin for use with scabies.

I bolded the part saying it is a last resort

https://www.cdc.gov/parasites/scabies/health_professionals/meds.html

Ivermectin Brand name product: Stromectol* Ivermectin is an oral antiparasitic agent approved for the treatment of worm infestations. Evidence suggests that oral ivermectin may be a safe and effective treatment for scabies; however, ivermectin is not FDA-approved for this use. Oral ivermectin should be considered for patients who have failed treatment with or who cannot tolerate FDA-approved topical medications for the treatment of scabies. If used for classic scabies, two doses of oral ivermectin (200µg/kg/dose) should be taken with food, each approximately one week apart. The safety of ivermectin in children weighing less than 15 kg and in pregnant women has not been established.
Note that although ivermectin guidelines recommend taking on an empty stomach, scabies experts recommend taking with a meal to increase bioavailability (CITE NEJM Currie article).

Are you lunatic radicals going to the CDC headquarters with pitchforks over this scabies usage allowance?

Ivermectin is an approved treatment for several parasitic infections in the US.

It has been investigated as a treatment in viral infections but no in vivo studies have been conducted.

COVID19 is not a parasite.

Some humans are apparently getting prescriptions for ivermectin from their physicians.

Other humans are going to establishments that sell various farm animal supplies, including some medications. They are purchasing ivermectin that has been formulated for use in livestock to use for themselves. I do not honestly know if the same standards are used in producing medications for livestock as for human beings. I do know that ivermectin, like most medications, has a body weight dosage schedule. I am not at all certain that people who purchase ivermectin for their own use at the animal supply store know enough to correctly adjust the dosage. Moreover, ivermectin is unlikely to do anything to help patients with COVID19. Indeed, reliance on such fake treatments may delay patients obtaining medical care that would actually be effective.

 

[bilby]

Not talking about covid and ivermectin, but the assertion that it is not rock solid FDA approved for it is not a sensible reason for it not to be used at all. Maybe the evidence actually is crap and it is a bad idea or maybe it meets a threshhold of risk/reward. But again lack of full rock solid FDA approval does not rule out off label usage. This is from the CDC website about ivermectin for use with scabies.

I bolded the part saying it is a last resort

https://www.cdc.gov/parasites/scabies/health_professionals/meds.html

Ivermectin Brand name product: Stromectol* Ivermectin is an oral antiparasitic agent approved for the treatment of worm infestations. Evidence suggests that oral ivermectin may be a safe and effective treatment for scabies; however, ivermectin is not FDA-approved for this use. Oral ivermectin should be considered for patients who have failed treatment with or who cannot tolerate FDA-approved topical medications for the treatment of scabies. If used for classic scabies, two doses of oral ivermectin (200µg/kg/dose) should be taken with food, each approximately one week apart. The safety of ivermectin in children weighing less than 15 kg and in pregnant women has not been established.
Note that although ivermectin guidelines recommend taking on an empty stomach, scabies experts recommend taking with a meal to increase bioavailability (CITE NEJM Currie article).

Are you lunatic radicals going to the CDC headquarters with pitchforks over this scabies usage allowance?

Using an antiparasitic medication against a parasitic condition for which it is not specifically approved is a far cry from using it against a viral infection.

If you don't understand just how wildly different viruses are from multicellular parasites, then you really need to STFU.

Indeed, all of your posts on this thread, and many on other threads, indicate a lack of understanding of the topic that would suggest S-ingTFU to be the wisest course.

Better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt...

 

[repoman]

…the assertion that it is not rock solid FDA approved for it is not a sensible reason for it not to be used at all.

It seemed to be a good reason for some of the folks who wouldn’t get a vaccine. Hmm…

I have had two jabs of Pfizer

 

[repoman]

Not talking about covid and ivermectin, but the assertion that it is not rock solid FDA approved for it is not a sensible reason for it not to be used at all. Maybe the evidence actually is crap and it is a bad idea or maybe it meets a threshhold of risk/reward. But again lack of full rock solid FDA approval does not rule out off label usage. This is from the CDC website about ivermectin for use with scabies.

I bolded the part saying it is a last resort

https://www.cdc.gov/parasites/scabies/health_professionals/meds.html

Ivermectin Brand name product: Stromectol* Ivermectin is an oral antiparasitic agent approved for the treatment of worm infestations. Evidence suggests that oral ivermectin may be a safe and effective treatment for scabies; however, ivermectin is not FDA-approved for this use. Oral ivermectin should be considered for patients who have failed treatment with or who cannot tolerate FDA-approved topical medications for the treatment of scabies. If used for classic scabies, two doses of oral ivermectin (200µg/kg/dose) should be taken with food, each approximately one week apart. The safety of ivermectin in children weighing less than 15 kg and in pregnant women has not been established.
Note that although ivermectin guidelines recommend taking on an empty stomach, scabies experts recommend taking with a meal to increase bioavailability (CITE NEJM Currie article).

Are you lunatic radicals going to the CDC headquarters with pitchforks over this scabies usage allowance?

Using an antiparasitic medication against a parasitic condition for which it is not specifically approved is a far cry from using it against a viral infection.

If you don't understand just how wildly different viruses are from multicellular parasites, then you really need to STFU.

Indeed, all of your posts on this thread, and many on other threads, indicate a lack of understanding of the topic that would suggest S-ingTFU to be the wisest course.

Better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt...

This is not about parasites vs viruses, this is about off label usage that is explicitly "allowed" as a later/last resort by the CDC on their official website.

Is the CDC misguided in having put this up, I assume well before covid happened?

 

[bilby]

Using an antiparasitic medication against a parasitic condition for which it is not specifically approved is a far cry from using it against a viral infection.

If you don't understand just how wildly different viruses are from multicellular parasites, then you really need to STFU.

Indeed, all of your posts on this thread, and many on other threads, indicate a lack of understanding of the topic that would suggest S-ingTFU to be the wisest course.

Better to be silent and be thought a fool, than to speak out and remove all doubt...

This is not about parasites vs viruses, this is about off label usage that is explicitly "allowed" as a later/last resort by the CDC on their official website.

Is the CDC misguided in having put this up, I assume well before covid happened?

I very much doubt that they are; However I am absolutely positive that you are not qualified to insinuate that they might be.

Nor is your unspoken implication that, if they are approving some medications for 'last resort' off-label use they should therefore approve all medications for any off-label use, regardless of evidence for its possible effectiveness, in any way justified.

Insinuation, implication, innuendo and similar conspiracist hogwash are not a substitute for evidence, or expertise.

If you have no evidence and no expertise, you cannot contribute usefully to a discussion (on ANY topic). Your opinion is not only valueless; It has the potential to be positively harmful. So unless you have hard evidence that it is valid, you should keep it to yourself. And if you do have such evidence, you need to present it.

Suspicions, worries, concerns, hints, and vague implications are NOT evidence.

 

[Shadowy Man]

…the assertion that it is not rock solid FDA approved for it is not a sensible reason for it not to be used at all.

It seemed to be a good reason for some of the folks who wouldn’t get a vaccine. Hmm…

I have had two jabs of Pfizer

Then clearly you aren’t one of those folks.

Though I suspect many of those waiting for full FDA approval aren’t running to get their shots now that that approval has arrived.

 

[Harry Bosch]

I think that Jimmy and I are the only two NFL fans on this forum! Regardless, interestedly, the New England Patriots just released Cam Newton, their starting NFL QB. He was cut in favor of a rookie. The rookie will be best long term. But clearly, Cam is much better today due to his experience. The Patriots will lose some games early due to starting the rookie. There are other reasons to favor the rookie. But it also appears the biggest reason to date is that Cam is a vaccine denier. He didn't get the vaccine. So, he's putting others (including older coaches) at risk. He can't do as many activities. He missed several days of practices due to COVID procedures. He's become undependable. I wonder how many other professionals are being cast aside due to their vaccine status. If you don't get a vaccine, you are less dependable. And your employment may be at greater risk.