Drag Shows

[Toni]

I really really really am hesitant about surgical intervention for gender confirmation on anyone who is not yet legally an adult. It's very very permanent. But then, I'm not trans, and no one close to me is trans so I am not so intimately involved and not as knowledgeable as I would be in other circumstances. I know that Emily Lake has someone who is a close relative who is trans and while Emily seems supportive, I know she's not thrilled with the idea of puberty blockers because of potential future harms, especially if the child feels differently down the line, and surgery even more so.

I agree. This is why people should not be denied the ability to defer any bodily development of new traits which can themselves only be unmade surgically, and informed of this availability in a way completely neutral to its application.

Making the decision to modify existing bodily structures can wait until someone is an adult, but cessation of the situations which lead to continued trait development is necessary to that goal, if we are to avoid dead teens who kill themselves because they are for the next decade trapped in a breasted body.

As to the effects of blocking puberty, we have tens of thousands of years of recorded discussions about what people have observed or thought that has been observed about eunuchs, and additionally over a hundred years of observation of those effects across the whole of the animal kingdom in the "scientific age" when this happens, also to include the occasional castrated human.

The opportunity to "pump the breaks" because we were unsure of the effects, as pertains to the oldest surgery in the history of the world, was some point in prehistory, though, as far as consenting adults are concerned

What you're talking about is halting puberty, which locks the individual into a childlike state. This is what happens to pre-pubertal eunuchs, as well as to neutered and spayed animals. That's not the same as how you describe puberty blockers as "pumping the brakes". You keep referring to blockers as if they're fully reversible with no side effects.

But they aren't. They interrupt a natural process which is time-bound. As an example, if you have a child who would go through a normal puberty starting at age 12, with the majority of sexual development being complete by age 16, you're talking about a 4-year window. If they start blockers at 12 and take them for 4 years... they don't start 4 years worth of puberty when they stop them. They're going to get very little sexual development. If they're female, they'll likely still start menarche, but they probably won't develop an adult sized uterus. And while they'll have some breast development, they won't complete breast development. If they're male, their penis is unlikely to elongate to a mature size, their voice may never drop, they may never have the ability to produce sperm.. And in both cases, they will have missed the window for the accretion of bone density, and are likely to have osteopenia for their entire lives.

However, puberty blockers are used for individuals who are starting to experience puberty too early, to allow their emotional maturity to catch iup and also to allow them more time to grow taller. These are done for specific reasons and for a determined amount of time.

 

[Emily Lake]

I know that Emily Lake has someone who is a close relative who is trans and while Emily seems supportive, I know she's not thrilled with the idea of puberty blockers because of potential future harms, especially if the child feels differently down the line, and surgery even more so.

I have two relatives who currently identify as trans. One of them is male, and identifies as a woman. They were pretty gender non-conforming as a child, and they made the decision to undergo transition at the age of 21. They have decided NOT to have any surgical procedures, and is only taking hormones. Part of their decision for that approach is that they did a LOT of research. And while they're pretty confident that they identify as a woman, they are also aware that they have some other mental health conditions that could be contributing to it, and they want to have the option to go back to living as a man if they later change their mind.

Kudos to my now-niece for being extremely rational about the whole thing. She has my full support.

The other is female and has JUST turned 18. They started taking testosterone just before they turned 17, after only have expressed anything remotely resembling a transgender identity for about a month, and after having spent a grand total of 30 minutes talking to a gender specialist. They are bipolar, and have been struggling with depression and anxiety for several years. They're scheduled to get their breasts amputated in May.

I don't think my younger niece is actually transgender at all. I think she's confused, I think she's had a really hard time dealing with her parent's divorce, and I think she very much needs counseling - which she refuses. I fear that she is going to regret the permanent changes she is making to her body. None of us - including her older sibling - believe that she is actually transgender.

I love my younger niece, and I will always be here for her. But I think this is a horrible idea that will end very badly, and I fear the toll this will take on her mental health.

The situation with your younger niece is heartbreaking. It is easy to see how much you love her, care about her and are concerned that she is not getting the needed counseling going through such a difficult time with her parents’ divorce.

It's heartbreaking... and there's nothing anyone can do about it. She won't even consider the idea. She completely cut off communication with my sister, as well as with her older sibling, because they tried to talk her into waiting. They both still supported her, they just wanted her to wait a few years. She still talks to me once in a while, and my mom, because we don't touch on the topic. The choice is to stay silent while we watch her do things that we're fairly certain are self-harming... or lose contact completely. My sister is so torn up about it.

 

[Emily Lake]

However, puberty blockers are used for individuals who are starting to experience puberty too early, to allow their emotional maturity to catch iup and also to allow them more time to grow taller. These are done for specific reasons and for a determined amount of time.

For precocious puberty, it's not done to allow emotional maturity. It's done to bring their pituitary process into alignment with their adrenal process, so they occur in tandem. That's part of where the "grow taller" comes in - it's not necessarily that they don;t want them to be short, it's that the pituitary process will result in bone density accretion well before the adrenal kicks in to close the growth plates. This can result not just in short stature, but in damage and deformity to the long bones.

For the emotional aspect, I mean, sure, they're probably not emotionally ready for it at that young an age... but that's not the primary reason for blockers. The primary reasons are strictly medical. It's because when the pituitary and the adrenal processes are out of sync, things get wonky.

 

[ZiprHead]

Maryland AG report into Archdiocese of Baltimore alleges 156 Catholic clergy members and others abused more than 600 children | CNN

A report from Maryland Attorney General Anthony Brown released Wednesday alleges 156 Catholic clergy members and others abused at least 600 children over the course of more than six decades.

www.cnn.com

Not drag queen in the bunch. But they were probably dressed a little flamboyantly.

 

[Bomb#20]

Being a Aussie was a pretty big insult on the playgrounds of my youth

Hey!

That was Toni's autocorrect messing up. She typed "Brit".

 

[Bomb#20]

I don’t read Emily Lake’s post the same way that you do. To me, it was obvious that she pretty strongly was condemning the idea that being gay made someone no better than a woman, every bit as much as I would condemn such sentiments. Being gay isn’t bad. Being a woman or female isn’t bad. But both were considered very insulting—obviously beneath ‘real’ men. Lesbians were even lower, if possible.

I think that it can be really difficult to discern tone and intention with forum posts. I know that sometimes, I’ve misinterpreted people’s posts and have been misinterpreted as well. That may have happened here.

Maybe? It's all the more reason to take care to uniformly say those quiet parts out loud every time, and to make a habit of it.
...
Failing to fully contextualize the behavior not as "male", not as "manly" but as "weak and insecure posturing" and even "toxic" itself has the power to perpetuate or allow internalization.

It's about putting available thoughts clearly in a bucket of suspicion to make them nonreactive to those who are attempting to research them or who are exposed, much like bathing metallic potassium in mineral oil for study.

What you're missing is that Emily did in fact contextualize adequately; she did in fact put the thoughts she was describing in a bucket not just of suspicion but of condemnation; and this was obvious not just to Toni and me but to everyone except you. <removed>

 

[Jarhyn]

However, puberty blockers are used for individuals who are starting to experience puberty too early, to allow their emotional maturity to catch iup and also to allow them more time to grow taller. These are done for specific reasons and for a determined amount of time.

For precocious puberty, it's not done to allow emotional maturity. It's done to bring their pituitary process into alignment with their adrenal process, so they occur in tandem. That's part of where the "grow taller" comes in - it's not necessarily that they don;t want them to be short, it's that the pituitary process will result in bone density accretion well before the adrenal kicks in to close the growth plates. This can result not just in short stature, but in damage and deformity to the long bones.

For the emotional aspect, I mean, sure, they're probably not emotionally ready for it at that young an age... but that's not the primary reason for blockers. The primary reasons are strictly medical. It's because when the pituitary and the adrenal processes are out of sync, things get wonky.

The only thing that makes this "damage" and "deformity" is your interpretation as such. Biology is WYSIWYG.

I will grant that most of these things are not things adults would choose for themselves, but some of them are.

The real question in my mind is "are these human beings mature enough to handle a sexual existence?"

There the answer is "hell no, not even teens are ever ready for that".

THAT is what is dangerous.

I can absolutely accept someone growing up shorter than average, or with a different shape than is normal. What I cannot accept is children too young to understand the basic elements social interactions well suddenly having an active interest in using their genitals.

It's telling you seem to think most people can and should care about someone growing up "abnormally" or with a strange body than you care about preciously sexual children.

I don't think many would choose this past for themselves, and so the implied future; this may be enough of a reason to stop it too -- the fact that even the people who might go through with unmodified development hate the fact they did, en masse, would be such an argument.

None of that answers whether kids should be able to defer puberty indefinitely, though, especially since the vast majority that do go on to seek hormonal modifications as an adult, and are generally quite happy with the results.

I in fact have little pity for desisters anyway seeing as they asked for it. Literally. They may be dissatisfied with their own choices but the only person to blame there is them, and if parents FORCE that onto a kid through pressuring them, that's a ripe ground to sue the parents, sure, but it is NOT a ripe ground to attack transition in general.

 

[Emily Lake]

However, puberty blockers are used for individuals who are starting to experience puberty too early, to allow their emotional maturity to catch iup and also to allow them more time to grow taller. These are done for specific reasons and for a determined amount of time.

For precocious puberty, it's not done to allow emotional maturity. It's done to bring their pituitary process into alignment with their adrenal process, so they occur in tandem. That's part of where the "grow taller" comes in - it's not necessarily that they don;t want them to be short, it's that the pituitary process will result in bone density accretion well before the adrenal kicks in to close the growth plates. This can result not just in short stature, but in damage and deformity to the long bones.

For the emotional aspect, I mean, sure, they're probably not emotionally ready for it at that young an age... but that's not the primary reason for blockers. The primary reasons are strictly medical. It's because when the pituitary and the adrenal processes are out of sync, things get wonky.

The only thing that makes this "damage" and "deformity" is your interpretation as such. Biology is WYSIWYG.

Sure, sure. Because cancer being considered "bad" is really just one person's interpretation. Cleft palates are only something considered to be a problem because people are what... bigoted?

Bones that are very brittle, prone to breakage, and bent to unusual shapes which impeded mobility are not just "interpretation". These are things that actually cause real physical problems and poor health.

Your take on this as being just an "interpretation" is very, very strange.

I will grant that most of these things are not things adults would choose for themselves, but some of them are.

The real question in my mind is "are these human beings mature enough to handle a sexual existence?"

There the answer is "hell no, not even teens are ever ready for that".

THAT is what is dangerous.

I can absolutely accept someone growing up shorter than average, or with a different shape than is normal. What I cannot accept is children too young to understand the basic elements social interactions well suddenly having an active interest in using their genitals.

It's telling you seem to think most people can and should care about someone growing up "abnormally" or with a strange body than you care about preciously sexual children.

I find it telling that you seem to think that health ailments that impede a person's ability to function are no big deal.

I really get the impression that you don't know anyone with a physical disability or a serious physical ailment that impedes their mobility and functionality. You treat these things so lightly that I end up thinking you genuinely have no idea what I'm talking about. It's as if you are envisioning malformed bones that are prone to easy breaks as if it's just a different choice of hairstyle or something equally tame.

I don't think many would choose this past for themselves, and so the implied future; this may be enough of a reason to stop it too -- the fact that even the people who might go through with unmodified development hate the fact they did, en masse, would be such an argument.

None of that answers whether kids should be able to defer puberty indefinitely, though, especially since the vast majority that do go on to seek hormonal modifications as an adult, and are generally quite happy with the results.

That's the problem though. You're just fine with "deferring" puberty, and you continue to frame it as if this is not a big deal. You keep glossing over that it isn't actually "deferring" so much as it is abbreviating or removing puberty altogether.

I in fact have little pity for desisters anyway seeing as they asked for it. Literally. They may be dissatisfied with their own choices but the only person to blame there is them, and if parents FORCE that onto a kid through pressuring them, that's a ripe ground to sue the parents, sure, but it is NOT a ripe ground to attack transition in general.

Holy cow.

We're talking about a medical intervention with life-long consequences, which is being offered to minors. These have consequences that most ADULTS don't fully understand - including you! The chances of a minor actually fully understanding the consequences of the path they have been ENCOURAGED to go down is almost nonexistent.

And your position is "too bad, so sad", no compassion for the MINORS who ended up permanently damaging their bodies because the adults around them were either too infatuated with the ideology or were too scared to speak up, or were legally unable to prevent their child from doing it, or were themselves ignorant of the consequences.

You're blaming kids for what is effectively medical experimentation practiced upon them without their reasonable consent.

 

[Elixir]

 

[Jarhyn]

That's the problem though. You're just fine with "deferring" puberty, and you continue to frame it as if this is not a big deal. You keep glossing over that it isn't actually "deferring" so much as it is abbreviating or removing puberty altogether

No, it's deferring it for the majority and again you have no ethical grounds to deny them the right.

You keep trying to frame it in such a way that this should be suspect, disallowed, but you provide zero valid argument to that end.

We're talking about a medical intervention with life-long consequences, which is being offered to minors.

Versus what? A lifelong decision FORCED on minors.

The decision to actually go through puberty SHOULD be a decision.

And your position is "too bad, so sad", no compassion for the MINORS who ended up permanently damaging their bodies

Yes, because the alternative is to say exactly the same thing, but over the denial of the autonomy, when allowing the autonomy saves lives on measure.

The fact is that they will ALL be given YEARS before ANY significant power is lost to undergo either puberty, and if they hold that conviction through the half of a decade that they are allowed to remain in that condition, that pretty much indicates that they are serious about wanting it.

They should absolutely be legally unable to prevent their kids from doing it altogether, because it is not their body, it is their child's body. Their vision for their child's body, career, and interests simply is invalid next to the child's vision of those things, especially when the evidence shows that it is not "just a phase".

The satisfaction reported with making the decision is quite high, among those who do not desist before such a point of no return.

All this amounts to is you having a tantrum because you cannot enforce your vision of humanity on the bodies of others against their consent.

 

[Bomb#20]

That's the problem though. You're just fine with "deferring" puberty, and you continue to frame it as if this is not a big deal. You keep glossing over that it isn't actually "deferring" so much as it is abbreviating or removing puberty altogether

No, it's deferring it for the majority and again you have no ethical grounds to deny them the right.
...
Versus what? A lifelong decision FORCED on minors.

The decision to actually go through puberty SHOULD be a decision.
...
The fact is that they will ALL be given YEARS before ANY significant power is lost to undergo either puberty, and if they hold that conviction through the half of a decade that they are allowed to remain in that condition, that pretty much indicates that they are serious about wanting it.

They should absolutely be legally unable to prevent their kids from doing it altogether, because it is not their body, it is their child's body. Their vision for their child's body, career, and interests simply is invalid next to the child's vision of those things, especially when the evidence shows that it is not "just a phase".
...
All this amounts to is you having a tantrum because you cannot enforce your vision of humanity on the bodies of others against their consent.

Children who think they may be the other sex are not the only juvenile population with body image issues who sometimes choose to chemically induce their bodies to develop in a different direction from the default path that non-intervention will give them.

Cigarette smoking for weight loss - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"...research reveals that white female adolescents with established weight-related anxieties are particularly prone to initiate smoking. ... nicotine is an appetite suppressant. ... Other studies have shown that smokers expend more calories while engaged in activity, which echo conclusions that smokers experience heightened metabolic rates."​

Some people no doubt feel that the decision to have a big appetite and a small metabolic rate SHOULD be a decision. Your trans arguments appear to be equally valid arguments for permitting teenage girls to take up smoking if they're unhappy about becoming overweight, and for doing away with the laws against selling tobacco to children.

 

[Emily Lake]

That's the problem though. You're just fine with "deferring" puberty, and you continue to frame it as if this is not a big deal. You keep glossing over that it isn't actually "deferring" so much as it is abbreviating or removing puberty altogether

No, it's deferring it for the majority and again you have no ethical grounds to deny them the right.
...
Versus what? A lifelong decision FORCED on minors.

The decision to actually go through puberty SHOULD be a decision.
...
The fact is that they will ALL be given YEARS before ANY significant power is lost to undergo either puberty, and if they hold that conviction through the half of a decade that they are allowed to remain in that condition, that pretty much indicates that they are serious about wanting it.

They should absolutely be legally unable to prevent their kids from doing it altogether, because it is not their body, it is their child's body. Their vision for their child's body, career, and interests simply is invalid next to the child's vision of those things, especially when the evidence shows that it is not "just a phase".
...
All this amounts to is you having a tantrum because you cannot enforce your vision of humanity on the bodies of others against their consent.

Children who think they may be the other sex are not the only juvenile population with body image issues who sometimes choose to chemically induce their bodies to develop in a different direction from the default path that non-intervention will give them.

Cigarette smoking for weight loss - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"...research reveals that white female adolescents with established weight-related anxieties are particularly prone to initiate smoking. ... nicotine is an appetite suppressant. ... Other studies have shown that smokers expend more calories while engaged in activity, which echo conclusions that smokers experience heightened metabolic rates."​

Some people no doubt feel that the decision to have a big appetite and a small metabolic rate SHOULD be a decision. Your trans arguments appear to be equally valid arguments for permitting teenage girls to take up smoking if they're unhappy about becoming overweight, and for doing away with the laws against selling tobacco to children.

Or you know... methamphetamines.

 

[Toni]

I think that the argument that children are ‘forced’ to endure the onslaught of hormones throughout their lives, from their earliest days is really off base. Here is a link from Cleveland Clinic listing all the hormones made by the human body and where the hormones are made within the body:

Hormones: What They Are, Function & Types

Hormones are chemicals that coordinate different functions in your body by carrying messages through your blood to your organs, skin, muscles and other tissues.

my.clevelandclinic.org

Human beings are not ‘forced’ to endure hormones: your body makes them to ensure that your body will grow and stop growing and will function in a healthy manner., abd to help you regulate normal body functions and responses to various stimuli, internal and external.

No child should be able to make decisions about puberty blockers without demonstrated need plus adequate consultation with medical professionals with qualified training, adequate ( read: lengthy) counseling by psychologists or psychiatrists with specific training in gender dysmorphia, and guidance from parents or other family members who are responsible for the child’s care.

 

[bilby]

...

Your trans arguments appear to be equally valid arguments for permitting teenage girls to take up smoking if they're unhappy about becoming overweight, and for doing away with the laws against selling tobacco to children.

Or you know... methamphetamines.

Why would anyone sell tobacco to methamphetamines??

 

[southernhybrid]

I think that the argument that children are ‘forced’ to endure the onslaught of hormones throughout their lives, from their earliest days is really off base. Here is a link from Cleveland Clinic listing all the hormones made by the human body and where the hormones are made within the body:

Hormones: What They Are, Function & Types

Hormones are chemicals that coordinate different functions in your body by carrying messages through your blood to your organs, skin, muscles and other tissues.

my.clevelandclinic.org

Human beings are not ‘forced’ to endure hormones: your body makes them to ensure that your body will grow and stop growing and will function in a healthy manner., abd to help you regulate normal body functions and responses to various stimuli, internal and external.

No child should be able to make decisions about puberty blockers without demonstrated need plus adequate consultation with medical professionals with qualified training, adequate ( read: lengthy) counseling by psychologists or psychiatrists with specific training in gender dysmorphia, and guidance from parents or other family members who are responsible for the child’s care.

I agree and from what I've read, this is exactly how a trans child is able to get the treatment they require. The sad part is that so many states that are controlled by ignorant, far right crazies are preventing these children from getting the help and treatment they need, which sadly leads to an increase in depression, suicidal ideation and even suicide.

 

[Jarhyn]

I think that the argument that children are ‘forced’ to endure the onslaught of hormones throughout their lives, from their earliest days is really off base. Here is a link from Cleveland Clinic listing all the hormones made by the human body and where the hormones are made within the body:

Hormones: What They Are, Function & Types

Hormones are chemicals that coordinate different functions in your body by carrying messages through your blood to your organs, skin, muscles and other tissues.

my.clevelandclinic.org

Human beings are not ‘forced’ to endure hormones: your body makes them to ensure that your body will grow and stop growing and will function in a healthy manner., abd to help you regulate normal body functions and responses to various stimuli, internal and external.

No child should be able to make decisions about puberty blockers without demonstrated need plus adequate consultation with medical professionals with qualified training, adequate ( read: lengthy) counseling by psychologists or psychiatrists with specific training in gender dysmorphia, and guidance from parents or other family members who are responsible for the child’s care.

I disagree, at least when discussing medium term. You can't undo a cut OR a hormonally driven growth.

You can absolutely "undo" blockers simply by ceasing to take them.

Evaluations can and should continue as to whether the need and desire exists to continue doing so, but it should not take long to acquire them, since treatment is time sensitive. You can't undo hormones. You can't even approach undoing the things hormones do to the body without cutting.

Also, the fact is that regardless of what you might expect, testosterone is toxic to the individual.

It makes people die sooner, and contributes to all sorts of organ decay and malfunction.

It serves it's purposes for getting DNA distributed, but there's a cost to the individual.

Of course, lots of things are toxic. Sugar in the quantities we give kids is toxic. The toxicity of testosterone is something that comes with some things that seem a decent tradeoff for 10 years of life: strength, stamina, the ability to have children.

For most people, the choice is apparent: shut up and take my 10 years off my life.

For others, they have different priorities. And the fact is, it's alright to have different priorities. I read recently a study about 1 in 5 adults not wanting children and never looking back. It's reasonable to not want to have those steroidal effects either. It's just not very common, and so it warrants investigations that when people do move for not being influenced by testosterone, they are within the population that wants it for reasons that are not associated with later regrets.

Still, knowing these things, I think it would be practical to recognize that this is something that really warrants self-determination.

 

[Emily Lake]

I think that the argument that children are ‘forced’ to endure the onslaught of hormones throughout their lives, from their earliest days is really off base. Here is a link from Cleveland Clinic listing all the hormones made by the human body and where the hormones are made within the body:

Hormones: What They Are, Function & Types

Hormones are chemicals that coordinate different functions in your body by carrying messages through your blood to your organs, skin, muscles and other tissues.

my.clevelandclinic.org

Human beings are not ‘forced’ to endure hormones: your body makes them to ensure that your body will grow and stop growing and will function in a healthy manner., abd to help you regulate normal body functions and responses to various stimuli, internal and external.

No child should be able to make decisions about puberty blockers without demonstrated need plus adequate consultation with medical professionals with qualified training, adequate ( read: lengthy) counseling by psychologists or psychiatrists with specific training in gender dysmorphia, and guidance from parents or other family members who are responsible for the child’s care.

This is a good post.

I really struggle with the entire concept that children are "forced" to go through puberty, and that they "ought to" have a choice about it. To me it seems as irrational as saying that people are "forced" to walk upright due to the interaction between the gravity and our evolved phenotype... and that people "ought to" have the choice to levitate instead. I have a really hard time even locating a point of shared perspective from which to have any meaningful discussion.

It feels like trying to have a discussion about the fastest route from Kyoto to San Diego when the other person truly believes the earth is flat.

 

[Emily Lake]

I think that the argument that children are ‘forced’ to endure the onslaught of hormones throughout their lives, from their earliest days is really off base. Here is a link from Cleveland Clinic listing all the hormones made by the human body and where the hormones are made within the body:

Hormones: What They Are, Function & Types

Hormones are chemicals that coordinate different functions in your body by carrying messages through your blood to your organs, skin, muscles and other tissues.

my.clevelandclinic.org

Human beings are not ‘forced’ to endure hormones: your body makes them to ensure that your body will grow and stop growing and will function in a healthy manner., abd to help you regulate normal body functions and responses to various stimuli, internal and external.

No child should be able to make decisions about puberty blockers without demonstrated need plus adequate consultation with medical professionals with qualified training, adequate ( read: lengthy) counseling by psychologists or psychiatrists with specific training in gender dysmorphia, and guidance from parents or other family members who are responsible for the child’s care.

I agree and from what I've read, this is exactly how a trans child is able to get the treatment they require. The sad part is that so many states that are controlled by ignorant, far right crazies are preventing these children from getting the help and treatment they need, which sadly leads to an increase in depression, suicidal ideation and even suicide.

The problem is that in the states with incredibly lax approaches... we're getting children who are effectively being sterilized, and who are removing their breasts, and who are NOT having their pre-existing mental health concerns addressed, and whose rate of suicidal ideation and attempts continue to be at high levels.

The most recent research on this shows that there is no change in depression or suicidality for kids who get affirmative treatments. And in this case, no change means that the degree of depression and suicidality that led them to seek treatment in the first place is not alleviated.

Please don't use mental health conditions as a threat to enact policy. "Let kids do what they want or else they will kill themselves" is not a very good approach to policy.

 

[Emily Lake]

You can absolutely "undo" blockers simply by ceasing to take them.

No you cannot. Stop repeating this propaganda.

 

[Jarhyn]

You can absolutely "undo" blockers simply by ceasing to take them.

No you cannot. Stop repeating this propaganda.

Yes. You can.

Plenty of folks have desisted, and been quite happy. Far more are happy with treatment, but enough have desisted from blockers that we can observe that puberty just spins right back up, for the most part.

Your endless gush of false "concern" about the fact that maybe ~5% that might be harmed of ~1% of the population that seeks it out less than a tenth as badly as the ~95% of the ~1% who clearly benefit with respect to attaining the general physiology they seek, is telling.

We definitely know the symptoms of being trans and being ignored. They largely include "suicide".