Freddie Gray dies a week after being injured during arrest

[RavenSky]

M

Practicing your selective reading skills again Derec?

http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/loca...e-protests-and-vigil-3-months-later/23858607/

What part of "dozens" do you think constitutes a "large" protest?

THREE MONTHS of continued protests.

I challenge you to post the frequency and the total numbers in attendance of every protest for each each "suspect" killed by police. You maintain that you are stating some sort of fact. Provide the evidence.

 

[Derec]

M

What part of "dozens" do you think constitutes a "large" protest?

THREE MONTHS of continued protests.

I challenge you to post the frequency and the total numbers in attendance of every protest for each each "suspect" killed by police. You maintain that you are stating some sort of fact. Provide the evidence.

Please. There is a huge difference between dozens and thousands Grey is getting as we speak and tens of thousands Brown was getting. And Grey's supporters are no more peaceful than Brown's have been.

By the way, why no discussion of the violent protests (aka riots) that are raging right now to "honor" Grey?

 

[RavenSky]

M

THREE MONTHS of continued protests.

I challenge you to post the frequency and the total numbers in attendance of every protest for each each "suspect" killed by police. You maintain that you are stating some sort of fact. Provide the evidence.

Please. There is a huge difference between dozens and thousands Grey is getting as we speak and tens of thousands Brown was getting. And Grey's supporters are no more peaceful than Brown's have been.

By the way, why no discussion of the violent protests (aka riots) that are raging right now to "honor" Grey?

Again, I challenge you to post the frequency and the total numbers in attendance of every protest for each each "suspect" killed by police. You maintain that you are stating some sort of fact. Provide the evidence. Until then, your comments are nothing more than your unsubstantiated and biased opinion, and not worth further discussion.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

M

THREE MONTHS of continued protests.

I challenge you to post the frequency and the total numbers in attendance of every protest for each each "suspect" killed by police. You maintain that you are stating some sort of fact. Provide the evidence.

Please. There is a huge difference between dozens and thousands Grey is getting as we speak and tens of thousands Brown was getting. And Grey's supporters are no more peaceful than Brown's have been.

Yup, time to break out the industrial broad brush.

By the way, why no discussion of the violent protests (aka riots) that are raging right now to "honor" Grey?

Well, I was actually pondering how much of the violence is the fault of people like you.

You seem to turn a blind eye to even the most egregious of incidents. A guy's spine was nearly completely severed, and we get a YouTube video from you folk showing a freak instance where a football player died in a freak neck injury. You scoff whenever these violent events occur. You immediately attack the victim and whatever record they have in order to justify the lack of Justice that happened in the field. If the arm chair police apologists would get upset every once in a while when the Police have appeared to do a great wrong, maybe something would be done about it and these needless officer killings wouldn't happen nearly every day.

None of that excuses what is happening on the streets, where hooligans are using this as an excuse to loot and cause damage. But you seem to want so badly to demonize the entire side, that you want to put supporters of Gray in the exact same category of people that are rioting. Which just helps fan the flames of Us v Them. So quick to point out a guy saying 'Burn it all down' in Ferguson, but you aren't saying that Grays' parents are calling for calm and an immediate end to the senseless violence.

Derec, you are part of the probelm.

 

[Playball40]

I was reading the comments on some of the articles reporting the violence in Baltimore right now. I believe such violence does little to help the situation (of police violence) but also tried to understand the mindset of these young, disenfranchised youth. That said, after reading the comments, I COULD FEEL the anger building up in me. I wanted to throw my phone. I read comments that said things like they should be shot in the head on sight. Animals. Effing n....ggers. Planet of the apes......... on and on!

If I wanted to throw something, I could only imagine the anger and helplessness felt by some of those perpetrating the violence.

 

[Derec]

Well, I was actually pondering how much of the violence is the fault of people like you.

Right. Rioters got mad because they read TF.

You seem to turn a blind eye to even the most egregious of incidents. A guy's spine was nearly completely severed, and we get a YouTube video from you folk showing a freak instance where a football player died in a freak neck injury.

No. I am not excusing any police misconduct. If police are at fault here, for example for rough riding him, they should be punished. But at most they would be guilty of inv. manslaughter. But I am on the other hand not going to ignore the role Grey himself had in his own demise, as some insist we must.

You immediately attack the victim and whatever record they have in order to justify the lack of Justice that happened in the field.

Grey had a record as long as his arm going all the way to 2007 and likely only stopping then because he was a minor before then. Does't mean the cops should have rough ridden him, but it also means he is not worth all the brouhaha either.

If the arm chair police apologists would get upset every once in a while when the Police have appeared to do a great wrong, maybe something would be done about it and these needless officer killings wouldn't happen nearly every day.

And if armchair thug apologists would not jump to the most damning (to the police), but false, narrative ("hands up don't shoot", "killed for jaywalking") they would not be fueling destructive riots. Hell, just this morning a local radio guy, F. Keith Slaughter was defending and supporting the racist violence in Baltimore, calling it "so-called riots". Ta-Nehitsi Coates, a writer for Atlantic (of the "whitey should pay me money because I am black!" fame) is also supportive of violence.

None of that excuses what is happening on the streets, where hooligans are using this as an excuse to loot and cause damage. But you seem to want so badly to demonize the entire side, that you want to put supporters of Gray in the exact same category of people that are rioting.

People that are rioting are among the supporters of Grey. They are not distinct groups, but rather the former is a subset of the latter.

Which just helps fan the flames of Us v Them. So quick to point out a guy saying 'Burn it all down' in Ferguson,

He wasn't just some guy, he was Brown's stepfather.

but you aren't saying that Grays' parents are calling for calm and an immediate end to the senseless violence.

That is to their credit, but it pales in comparison to the incitement of violence you get from many activists.

Derec, you are part of the probelm.

Really?

 

[Derec]

Again, I challenge you to post the frequency and the total numbers in attendance of every protest for each each "suspect" killed by police. You maintain that you are stating some sort of fact. Provide the evidence. Until then, your comments are nothing more than your unsubstantiated and biased opinion, and not worth further discussion.

Again, large protests and riots are infrequent enough that the examples I provided, as well as things like LA Riots, Benton Harbor (thug died from an overdose of brick wall while he fled from police on his motorcycle), Oscar Grant etc, are sufficient to establish a pattern of large protests and riots overwhelmingly breaking out in support of thugs, not in support of innocent victims. If you have any evidence to the contrary please provide it instead of demanding omniscience regarding "each suspect".

 

[Rhea]

This blame the victim (and blame the victim's parents) way of thinking caused me to articulate a question that I wonder about. I placed it in Morals forum, but it relates to this discussion so I'm posting a link...

Racial Behavior

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

You seem to turn a blind eye to even the most egregious of incidents. A guy's spine was nearly completely severed, and we get a YouTube video from you folk showing a freak instance where a football player died in a freak neck injury.

No. I am not excusing any police misconduct. If police are at fault here, for example for rough riding him, they should be punished. But at most they would be guilty of inv. manslaughter. But I am on the other hand not going to ignore the role Grey himself had in his own demise, as some insist we must.

That's a load of bull. What in the world did Grey do? Oh that's right... we don't know what happened. Walked into van, came out about dead. And you want to concentrate on Grey's part in his death.

You immediately attack the victim and whatever record they have in order to justify the lack of Justice that happened in the field.

Grey had a record as long as his arm going all the way to 2007 and likely only stopping then because he was a minor before then. Does't mean the cops should have rough ridden him, but it also means he is not worth all the brouhaha either.

Passive aggressive material there. He was a drug pusher, they should have broken his spine, but who fucking cares about him.

Derec, you are part of the probelm.

Really?

Yes.

 

[repoman]

I am too busy too look this up now. But if Grey had an active warrant or was on parole while having tbe switchblade it still doesn't justify a severed neck. Only an overreaction to him holding the knife or stabbing someone would justify a neck snap or throat crush.

it seems likely to me that the initial injury may have happened on the street when he was subdued. Maybe his neck was already broken but still in place (not yet 80% severed). The ride would do the rest of the damage- either through jostling or through swelling.

That or someone went to work on him in the van.

 

[bleubird]

If we do not have due process we become the thugs.

 

[ksen]

That or someone went to work on him in the van.

I was wondering if the other prisoner in the van did it.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

That or someone went to work on him in the van.

I was wondering if the other prisoner in the van did it.

If that's the case, it's still the fault of the police. They have a duty to ensure the safety of those in their custody. If someone gets injured or killed by another prisoner while in custody, then the blame for that goes to the police department as well as to the guy who actually attacked him.

 

[ksen]

Oh, I agree. I should have made that clear.

 

[ksen]

Ta-Nehisi Coates:

Now, tonight, I turn on the news and I see politicians calling for young people in Baltimore to remain peaceful and "nonviolent." These well-intended pleas strike me as the right answer to the wrong question. To understand the question, it's worth remembering what, specifically, happened to Freddie Gray. An officer made eye contact with Gray. Gray, for unknown reasons, ran. The officer and his colleagues then detained Gray. They found him in possession of a switchblade. They arrested him while he yelled in pain. And then, within an hour, his spine was mostly severed. A week later, he was dead. What specifically was the crime here? What particular threat did Freddie Gray pose? Why is mere eye contact and then running worthy of detention at the hands of the state? Why is Freddie Gray dead?

The people now calling for nonviolence are not prepared to answer these questions. Many of them are charged with enforcing the very policies that led to Gray's death, and yet they can offer no rational justification for Gray's death and so they appeal for calm. But there was no official appeal for calm when Gray was being arrested. There was no appeal for calm when Jerriel Lyles was assaulted. (“The blow was so heavy. My eyes swelled up. Blood was dripping down my nose and out my eye.”) There was no claim for nonviolence on behalf of Venus Green. (“Bitch, you ain’t no better than any of the other old black bitches I have locked up.”) There was no plea for peace on behalf of Starr Brown. (“They slammed me down on my face,” Brown added, her voice cracking. “The skin was gone on my face.")

When nonviolence is preached as an attempt to evade the repercussions of political brutality, it betrays itself. When nonviolence begins halfway through the war with the aggressor calling time out, it exposes itself as a ruse. When nonviolence is preached by the representatives of the state, while the state doles out heaps of violence to its citizens, it reveals itself to be a con. And none of this can mean that rioting or violence is "correct" or "wise," any more than a forest fire can be "correct" or "wise." Wisdom isn't the point tonight. Disrespect is. In this case, disrespect for the hollow law and failed order that so regularly disrespects the community.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Seeing that the rioting has little to do with Gray, other than he was the excuse for it, I don't particularly see the point here. Some hooligans are throwing cinder blocks at firefighters. Who the fuck attacks a firefighter, other than an asshole?

Looting is not an expression of a political voice.

I entirely understand the other half of the argument however. The crap going down seems to get almost no response from the Police. A case like that... they needed answers out and quickly, but weren't capable or willing to do so.

So when a community gets angry, that is very understandable.

 

[repoman]

Not sure how accurate this is:

March 20, 2015: Possession of a Controlled Dangerous Substance
March 13, 2015: Malicious destruction of property, second-degree assault
January 20, 2015: Fourth-degree burglary, trespassing
January 14, 2015: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute
December 31, 2014: Possession of narcotics with intent to distribute
December 14, 2014: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance
August 31, 2014: Illegal gambling, trespassing
January 25, 2014: Possession of marijuana
September 28, 2013: Distribution of narcotics, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, second-degree assault, second-degree escape
April 13, 2012: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, violation of probation
July 16, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession with intent to distribute
March 28, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance
March 14, 2008: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to manufacture and distribute
February 11, 2008: Unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance, possession of a controlled dangerous substance
August 29, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, violation of probation
August 28, 2007: Possession of marijuana
August 23, 2007: False statement to a peace officer, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance
July 16, 2007: Possession of a controlled dangerous substance with intent to distribute, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substance (2 counts)

So, to me he very likely was running for a good reason. The media not covering his rap sheet for the reason he was running is abrogation of duty.

I wonder if something like the Seattle Cinerama thing happened to him. But still a decent chance a cop got pissed and hurt him when defenseless.

This is the Seattle Cinerama police caused injury, fucking brutal head right into the wall:



I wouldn't doubt a kinetic tackle would break a neck. that is why football players have helmets and shoulder padding.

 

[ksen]

You want to stop these riots?

Instead of lines of riot police and national guardsmen put out a few lines of mothers.

Shit will calm down right quick.

 

[repoman]

It is a matriarchal society after all.

This is what happens when you smash the patriarchy.

 

[Underseer]

It is a matriarchal society after all.

This is what happens when you smash the patriarchy.

That was a hilarious lampoon of right wing arguments! I approve!