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Merged Gaza just launched an unprovoked attack on Israel

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Hamas must be destroyed just like German Nazi government had to be destroyed. Even if it meant bombing Dresden, Berlin and other German cities into rubble.
Do you genuinely believe that such bombing campaigns made defeating Germany easier??
I've seen a theory on why this bombing of cities had value, that it distracted the German Air Force from the eastern front, and later the western front. By trying to fight off British and US bombers, they could not do anything about the oncoming Soviet Army and later the Western-Allies armies.

But that was a very grisly strategy, I must concede.
Historians say the bombing had an effect on German morale. It attacked the invincibility image of Hitler.

By the end of the war the number of bombers on raids were massive. It did force Germans to defend the homeland. Brits bombed at night, Americans in the day.

Whether the bombing had a meaningful effect on German war production is open for debate.

Maybe Hitler's greates blunder was shifting from attacking RAF infrastructure to terror bombing. It allowed the RAF to rearm and train new pilots.

It was ghastly. Read on the firebombing of Dresden. People cooked alive.

Hitler first used the V1, v standing for Vengeance Weapon. The Buzz Bomb. It was launched at London and when the fuel ran out it crashed. People would hear the engine stop followed by silence.

Followed by the V2 a long rage guided ballistic missile. No warning, just the explosion.

From what I read Churchill first opposed responding in kind on moral grounds, but yielded to fire bombing.

WWII was an existential battle between liberal democracy and authoritarianism. Hamas is not an existential threat to Israel.

The writer Kurt Vonnegut was a POW in Dresden.

Was Kurt Vonnegut in Dresden?
Kurt Vonnegut - Wikipedia
He was interned in Dresden, where he survived the Allied bombing of the city in a meat locker of the slaughterhouse where he was imprisoned. After the war, he married Jane Marie Cox, with whom he had three children.
Slaughterhouse-Five, or, The Children's Crusade: A Duty-Dance with Death is a 1969 semi-autobiographic science fiction-infused anti-war novel by Kurt Vonnegut. It follows the life and experiences of Billy Pilgrim, from his early years, to his time as an American soldier and chaplain's assistant during World War II, to the post-war years, with Billy occasionally traveling through time. The text centers on Billy's capture by the German Army and his survival of the Allied firebombing of Dresden as a prisoner of war, an experience which Vonnegut himself lived through as an American serviceman. The work has been called an example of "unmatched moral clarity"[3] and "one of the most enduring anti-war novels of all time".[3]
 
I wasn't sure whether to post this in a Gaza thread or a Trump thread. I think it's important enough to post to both threads.

Did Hamas somehow get inside information about Israel’s defenses from a Trump Leak?
OPINION by Thom Hartmann, October 11, 2023

This past weekend, Hamas launched a brutal, horrific attack against civilians in Israel. While there is a very real history that has led up to this, there is no justification for it. Even in a state of war, civilians must be protected.

This horror raises a couple of important questions.

First, did Hamas somehow get inside information about Israel’s defenses that helped them pull this off?

Second, how might this play out, how might it be resolved, and how can America and the world avoid the mistakes from previous but similar situations?

Pondering these questions, Sunday night just before I went to bed, I tweeted:

“Hamas apparently knew how to get around Israel’s Iron Dome defenses. They probably learned this from Iran. Iran almost certainly got the information from Russia. And who gave it to Russia? Sure looks like it was Donald Trump, at the request of Putin:”​

At the end of the tweet I included a link to a 2017 Washington Post article titled “Trump revealed highly classified information to Russian foreign minister and ambassador,” although, because Musk has eliminated headlines from news stories, the article just looked like a picture of Trump with the Russian ambassador and foreign minister yucking it up.

When I woke up yesterday morning, I discovered that my little overnight speculative tweet had caused Republicans on Twitter/X to totally lose their minds.

The tweet had been viewed several million times and produced thousands of responses, the vast majority calling me obscenities and claiming that Trump would never share classified information with anybody because he’s such a patriot and anybody who would wonder out loud about him passing out secrets isn’t.

The Washington Post article I included with my tweet was pretty unambiguous. Reporters Greg Miller and Greg Jaffe wrote:

“President Trump revealed highly classified information to the Russian foreign minister and ambassador in a White House meeting last week, according to current and former U.S. officials, who said Trump’s disclosures jeopardized a critical source of intelligence on the Islamic State.
“The information the president relayed had been provided by a U.S. partner through an intelligence-sharing arrangement considered so sensitive that details have been withheld from allies and tightly restricted even within the U.S. government, officials said.”​

While nobody knew then (and nobody but Trump and the Russians know now) exactly what top-secret information we got from Israel that was shared with the Russians in that meeting, it was clearly a shocking revelation that caught our and Israel’s intelligence communities by surprise.

As noted in that Washington Post article:

“‘This is code-word information,’ said a U.S. official familiar with the matter, using terminology that refers to one of the highest classification levels used by American spy agencies. Trump ‘revealed more information to the Russian ambassador than we have shared with our own allies.’”​

The Post reporters also note that, before the door was closed, apparently a Trump staffer overheard him tell the Russians:

“I get great intel. I have people brief me on great intel every day.”​

Eight days before Trump was inaugurated as president, a Hebrew language Israeli newspaper with inside information from Israeli intelligence agencies was quoted by the Times of Israel:

“US intelligence officials have warned their Israeli counterparts that President-elect Donald Trump’s ties to Russia could pose a security threat, since information passed on to his administration may reach Moscow and from there be leaked to Iran, a Hebrew-language daily reported Thursday.
“During a recent meeting between US and Israeli intelligence staff, the Americans also assessed that Russia has some kind of leverage over Trump, but did not go into details, the Yedioth Ahronoth newspaper claimed, citing unidentified Israeli officials who were present at the session.”​

So, whether Trump screwed Israel and the US because Putin told him to, or just to feed his own massively insecure ego, and whether it’s specifically led to this Hamas raid or simply did other damage to Israeli and American security, here we are.

And, as we learned last week when it came out that Trump shared top-secret info about our submarine fleet with an Australian businessman, he has a history of doing exactly this sort of thing.

We also don’t know if that particular intel from 2017 had to do with Iron Dome or Israeli security (the article suggests it might have involved using a laptop to take down a plane) or not.

It’s important to note, though, that it was only one of literally dozens of secret, private meetings Trump had with Russian officials, Russian-aligned people at the White House and Mar-a-Lago, and at least 19 phone calls with Putin, for many of which there are no existing records.

Now Newsweek has published an article about this concern that Trump played a role in the Hamas attack as well, and I’ve been joined in my speculation by several others. The Newsweek article, headlined “Donald Trump's Israel Intel Leak Under Scrutiny After Hamas Attack,” lays it out rather starkly:

“Donald Trump’s sharing of alleged classified intelligence to Russian officials in the White House has come under scrutiny amid a large-scale attack by the Hamas Islamist military group against Israel.
“In May 2017, the former president defended his actions after he was found to have discussed sensitive details about an alleged Islamic State (ISIS) plot with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov and Ambassador Sergey Kislyak in the Oval Office. Trump said he had an absolute right to do so. The intel was said to have been provided to the U.S. from Israel.
“It was suggested at the time that the former president’s handing over sensitive information from Israel could have damaged the relationship between the two countries. It also could have raised the possibility that the details could be passed from Russia to Iran, the Gulf nation that is a fierce adversary of Israel and has long supported Hamas.”​

It goes on to quote me, Allison Gill (Mueller, She Wrote), Mike Jollett, and Meidas Touch.

Even Donald Trump’s niece, Mary Trump, tweeted:

“This fucking maniac likely gave Putin (who gave Iran, who gave Hamas) Israel’s national security secrets… Plus, he divulged highly classified information about our nuclear subs to an Australian cardboard guy. Why is he still allowed to roam free?”
But, again, all this is speculation. What we do know for sure, though, is that on at least one occasion in the first months of his presidency Trump gave information to the Russians that would have landed any other American in prison. As the Post noted:

“For almost anyone in government, discussing such matters with an adversary would be illegal.”​

And let there be no doubt that the Russians Trump shared that information with are allies of Hamas, even if that wasn’t the specific time and information that led to this attack.

A year ago last month, as the Times of Israel noted, the politburo chief of Hamas, Ismail Haniyeh, met with Trump’s Oval Office buddy, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov. Joining them were the number two man in the Hamas Politburo, Saleh Al-Arouri, and Moussa Abu Marzouk and Maher Salah, the two most senior members of Hamas’s political wing.

That meeting was followed up this March with confirmation that Hamas has been regularly meeting with Russia. As Al-Monitor, a newspaper that covers Middle Eastern politics, noted:

“Hamas officials have made several visits to the Russian capital, most recently in September of last year.”​

Whether any of this will end up sticking to Trump is anybody’s guess, but if the thousands of hysterical replies to my tweet are any indication, the GOP is truly freaked out about the possibility. This might turn out to be more politically deadly to him than rape, paying off porn stars, or stealing classified information by the box-load.

Republican politicians have even gone so far as to nakedly lie to the American people about the horrors in Israel, suggesting that the deal President Biden worked out with Iran was used to fund this attack. But it’s not true: of the $6 billion in oil money South Korea was to pay to Iran (but was frozen by international sanctions) not one single penny has yet to be distributed.

That hasn’t stopped the GOP from lying about it incessantly; it got so bad that a Fox “News” host had to intervene and correct a Republican politician, pointing out that no money has changed hands. DeSantis repeated the lie this morning on Morning Joe.

Given how frantically Republicans in the Senate are trying to pin liability for the massacre in Israel on Biden, it sure seems that somebody might be trying to cover something up. Could this have something to do with the secret documents that Donald Trump hand-delivered to Rand Paul, and he then personally transported to Moscow to give to Putin’s intelligence agents?

Jim Jordan and James Comer are fond of saying, “Where there’s smoke there’s fire.” This “smoke” demands an investigation by the Senate Intelligence Committee, at the very least. And, hopefully, the FBI is all over it, particularly given the horror of these attacks.

But to circle back to the second question, media pundits and even the government of Israel have been using 9/11 as an analogy to the events of this past weekend.

Both were clearly major intelligence failures, but George W. Bush survived his because Democrats chose not to politicize it.

After all, a full month earlier (on August 6th, 2001) the CIA was so alarmed that they flew an agent all the way down to Crawford, Texas in a private jet just to hand-deliver a memo to Bush that was titled:

“Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S.”​

Bush’s response to the possibility of Washington DC being a target was to change his plans and take the longest vacation in the history of the presidency; he went from Crawford, Texas to Florida, a state run by his brother, where Jeb declared a state of emergency on August 24th. George stayed there, refusing to return to DC until after the attacks were over.

Press reports today suggest that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu received similar warnings from multiple countries in the region prior to the recent attacks and, like Bush, chose to ignore them. But Israeli politicians are often not as circumspect as America’s Democrats, so it’s possible that what rolled off Bush’s back will stick to Netanyahu. Keep an eye on this one.

While it’s a certainty that Netanyahu will be brutal and unsparing in his retaliation (“vengeance” was the word he used yesterday) against Hamas and Gaza, the situation was, in fact, both untenable and unsustainable and it didn’t take a prophet to predict there would be a blow-up one day.

There’s a huge difference in meaning, however, between the words “predictable” and “justified.” Nothing can justify the level of terror and brutality Hamas inflicted on Israeli citizens (and others) this weekend.

And Hamas, with their commitment to destroying Israel and killing Jews, cannot be an honest broker for any sort of peace in that region; the organization and its leadership must be destroyed. They are not reformable, like, for example, the terrorist Irish Republican Army was back in the day.

Similarly, Iran’s and Russia’s support for Hamas must be cut off. As Iran shows in its attacks on its own citizens, and Russia shows in the brutality of its daily terror attacks against Ukraine, neither are behaving like civilized members of the modern world.

Yet, here in America MAGA Republicans continue to do everything they can to support Iran’s (and, thus, Hamas’) number-one sponsor in the world: Russia.

— Tommy Tuberville (R-AL) is blocking military promotions so we have no commander for our fleet in the region because he doesn’t want raped women serving in our military to get abortions;
— Rand Paul (R-KY) has blocked the appointment of our ambassador to Israel because Covid, vaccine, conspiracy;
— Josh Hawley (R-MO) is blocking Dept. of Energy appointees;
— Chuck Grassley (R-IA) has a hold on a nominee for the Dept. of Veterans Affairs;
— JD Vance (R-OH) has a hold on Dept. of Justice nominees;
— and the Putin caucus in the House is trying to shut down our government and thus cut aid to Ukraine, which will strengthen Russia and reward their help to Iran and Hamas.

Our hearts break for the missing and captive Israelis, Americans, and others who are the victims of this medieval Hamas attack. It’s hard to imagine anything more horrific.

The civilized world must stand united against terrorism, wherever it is practiced.
 
Sounds like the accusations of beheadings might not be accurate after all. They aren't being brought up now.

I think it's a possibility, hard to gauge how probable. As far as Biden, he had something like he never thought he'd see the day when there were confirmed stories of beheadings of babies. The way he worded it made it sound like the confirmation was by his own actions, but his clarification means the confirmation is from Israeli govt or media.

We probably won't know the real truth of this in the next 24 hours, perhaps not even for weeks or months. There are often stories like this, sometimes true and sometimes not. Two examples of not--stories about cannibalism post-Hurricane-Katrina in NOLA when things were bleak and food scarce, then also another story about massacring babies but this one was about Iraq during its take back of Kuwait. Whatever stories we heard about Jews being slaughtered prior to our entry into WW2 were probably true, though. So, history doesn't really provide a good guide (IMHO) about what to believe.

Moreover, we don't really need to know right now because violent killing of children by both sides is an established known thing that we can be against either way.
 
Blinken's comments referred to brutal killings, but not quite barbaric. But as morality goes, Hamas isn't going to gain much moral high ground because they only shot babies and didn't dismember them.
 
Conservative fuckheads: "Accepting 50,000 new residents into our country during a year will cause our whole country to collapse under the strain."

Also conservative fuckheads: "It is fine to give one million people 24 hrs to abandon their homes and move somewhere else so you can bomb their neighborhood and feel no guilt about the casualties."
 
For all their terrorist evil and the shitting they are doing on their own population, Hamas is still very popular on the Palestinian street.
That's because they hate Israel, and are prepared to express that hatred in violence.

It's a constant throughout history that public opinion favours people who are violent towards people who are mistreating that public.

If you want Palestinians to stop loving Hamas, and to stop loving terrorists who attack Israel and/or America, then you'll need Israel (and America) to be kind, supportive and generous towards Palestinians.

If Israel were building infrastructure in Gaza - roads, hospitals, schools, even mosques, then not only would it be harder for Hamas and their ilk to obtain popular support, it would also mean that Israel would have more control over the materials needed for building infrastructure, and make it harder for Hamas to divert those materials to belligerent purposes.

It's both impractical and unacceptable to kill everyone in Gaza who hates Israel. So if you want Gazans to love Israel, you're going to need Israel to kill them with kindness, rather than with bombs.
In Palestine, Hamas dug up water pipes and turned them into rockets to send into Israel.
Enmity between Jewish people and Palestinians has existed for many generations prior to the establishment of Israel.

Neither side seems willing to treat the other with anything like kindness and any such attempts at kindness are met with hostility and suspicion and usually a lot of violence.

Israel, despised by much of the Arab world for existing has profited much more than have the Palestinians who should have allies in the Arab world--which exist only for the purpose of destroying Israel, not for helping Palestinians. Why?
 
For all their terrorist evil and the shitting they are doing on their own population, Hamas is still very popular on the Palestinian street.
That's because they hate Israel, and are prepared to express that hatred in violence.

It's a constant throughout history that public opinion favours people who are violent towards people who are mistreating that public.

If you want Palestinians to stop loving Hamas, and to stop loving terrorists who attack Israel and/or America, then you'll need Israel (and America) to be kind, supportive and generous towards Palestinians.

If Israel were building infrastructure in Gaza - roads, hospitals, schools, even mosques, then not only would it be harder for Hamas and their ilk to obtain popular support, it would also mean that Israel would have more control over the materials needed for building infrastructure, and make it harder for Hamas to divert those materials to belligerent purposes.

It's both impractical and unacceptable to kill everyone in Gaza who hates Israel. So if you want Gazans to love Israel, you're going to need Israel to kill them with kindness, rather than with bombs.
In Palestine, Hamas dug up water pipes and turned them into rockets to send into Israel.
Enmity between Jewish people and Palestinians has existed for many generations prior to the establishment of Israel.

Neither side seems willing to treat the other with anything like kindness and any such attempts at kindness are met with hostility and suspicion and usually a lot of violence.

Israel, despised by much of the Arab world for existing has profited much more than have the Palestinians who should have allies in the Arab world--which exist only for the purpose of destroying Israel, not for helping Palestinians. Why?

Palestinians DO have friendly countries who would want to be allies. What response should Lebanon, Syria, Egypt do...pick them up in boats? Think about it. US and some NATO members just sent ships to stop any nefarious undertakings. It isn't practical to stand up to US or to appear to support terrorists.
 
Sounds as credible as FOX News, but then Uncle Joe has a long history of making off the cuff gaffes. Followed by the WH walking it back,
Sorry fellow Seattle home buddy (love Seattle!); but I've corrected you on this before. The Joe always cutting gaffes is a fox news meme that is false. He said what appeared to be true. My mind is totally changed after finding out that Hamas killed the babies with bullets rather than by beheading...
 
For all their terrorist evil and the shitting they are doing on their own population, Hamas is still very popular on the Palestinian street.
That's because they hate Israel, and are prepared to express that hatred in violence.

It's a constant throughout history that public opinion favours people who are violent towards people who are mistreating that public.

If you want Palestinians to stop loving Hamas, and to stop loving terrorists who attack Israel and/or America, then you'll need Israel (and America) to be kind, supportive and generous towards Palestinians.

If Israel were building infrastructure in Gaza - roads, hospitals, schools, even mosques, then not only would it be harder for Hamas and their ilk to obtain popular support, it would also mean that Israel would have more control over the materials needed for building infrastructure, and make it harder for Hamas to divert those materials to belligerent purposes.

It's both impractical and unacceptable to kill everyone in Gaza who hates Israel. So if you want Gazans to love Israel, you're going to need Israel to kill them with kindness, rather than with bombs.
In Palestine, Hamas dug up water pipes and turned them into rockets to send into Israel.
Enmity between Jewish people and Palestinians has existed for many generations prior to the establishment of Israel.

Neither side seems willing to treat the other with anything like kindness and any such attempts at kindness are met with hostility and suspicion and usually a lot of violence.

Israel, despised by much of the Arab world for existing has profited much more than have the Palestinians who should have allies in the Arab world--which exist only for the purpose of destroying Israel, not for helping Palestinians. Why?

Palestinians DO have friendly countries who would want to be allies. What response should Lebanon, Syria, Egypt do...pick them up in boats? Think about it. US and some NATO members just sent ships to stop any nefarious undertakings. It isn't practical to stand up to US or to appear to support terrorists.
Do you really think there would be an outcry from the US or from Israel if Egypt opened its borders to Palestinians? I don't. Hamas is a totally different thing. Hamas is recognized as a terrorist organization and has been in control of Palestine for some time now.

From the beginning of Israel as a nation, there has not been much support for Palestinian people from other Arab nations, including Egypt. There may have been great enmity towards Jews but absolutely no sympathy for Palestinians, either.

There has been so much wrong on both sides for so long that it is impossible to find innocence or right. However, the attack by Hamas just a few days ago cannot be considered to be righteous or justified. It is difficult to find fault for Israel for retaliating. Hamas beheaded infants. This was not an accidental miscalculation of a rocket attack that hit a day care center: it was deliberate and up close and personal. Hamas also imbeds its military installations into civilian spaces, making it very, very difficult or impossible to not hit civilian spaces while attempting to take out Hamas.

The only way this ends is if both sides decide that enough children have been murdered and that further bloodshed will beget only death and destruction for all.
 
For all their terrorist evil and the shitting they are doing on their own population, Hamas is still very popular on the Palestinian street.
That's because they hate Israel, and are prepared to express that hatred in violence.

It's a constant throughout history that public opinion favours people who are violent towards people who are mistreating that public.

If you want Palestinians to stop loving Hamas, and to stop loving terrorists who attack Israel and/or America, then you'll need Israel (and America) to be kind, supportive and generous towards Palestinians.

If Israel were building infrastructure in Gaza - roads, hospitals, schools, even mosques, then not only would it be harder for Hamas and their ilk to obtain popular support, it would also mean that Israel would have more control over the materials needed for building infrastructure, and make it harder for Hamas to divert those materials to belligerent purposes.

It's both impractical and unacceptable to kill everyone in Gaza who hates Israel. So if you want Gazans to love Israel, you're going to need Israel to kill them with kindness, rather than with bombs.
In Palestine, Hamas dug up water pipes and turned them into rockets to send into Israel.
Enmity between Jewish people and Palestinians has existed for many generations prior to the establishment of Israel.

Neither side seems willing to treat the other with anything like kindness and any such attempts at kindness are met with hostility and suspicion and usually a lot of violence.

Israel, despised by much of the Arab world for existing has profited much more than have the Palestinians who should have allies in the Arab world--which exist only for the purpose of destroying Israel, not for helping Palestinians. Why?

Palestinians DO have friendly countries who would want to be allies. What response should Lebanon, Syria, Egypt do...pick them up in boats? Think about it. US and some NATO members just sent ships to stop any nefarious undertakings. It isn't practical to stand up to US or to appear to support terrorists.
Do you really think there would be an outcry from the US or from Israel if Egypt opened its borders to Palestinians?

Full stop. Gaza has been tightly controlled borders included and input and output of goods, too, for many years. They've had electricity and water issues, a high mortality rate, low gdp per capita for many years with this. Carter went there and called it apartheid. In 2018, Palestinians went en masse to the border to protest and were met with sniper fire. They've been targeted up to hundreds including women and children in the past as well. I know Hamas is evil but I don't think there are any easy solutions, mostly because conservative regimes block empowerment and opportunity. Liberals seemed to have had answers in the past but due to actions by conservatives (Hamas, Israel, US) those answers cannot be recovered. It's only going to get worse.

 
For all their terrorist evil and the shitting they are doing on their own population, Hamas is still very popular on the Palestinian street.
That's because they hate Israel, and are prepared to express that hatred in violence.

It's a constant throughout history that public opinion favours people who are violent towards people who are mistreating that public.

If you want Palestinians to stop loving Hamas, and to stop loving terrorists who attack Israel and/or America, then you'll need Israel (and America) to be kind, supportive and generous towards Palestinians.

If Israel were building infrastructure in Gaza - roads, hospitals, schools, even mosques, then not only would it be harder for Hamas and their ilk to obtain popular support, it would also mean that Israel would have more control over the materials needed for building infrastructure, and make it harder for Hamas to divert those materials to belligerent purposes.

It's both impractical and unacceptable to kill everyone in Gaza who hates Israel. So if you want Gazans to love Israel, you're going to need Israel to kill them with kindness, rather than with bombs.
In Palestine, Hamas dug up water pipes and turned them into rockets to send into Israel.
Enmity between Jewish people and Palestinians has existed for many generations prior to the establishment of Israel.

Neither side seems willing to treat the other with anything like kindness and any such attempts at kindness are met with hostility and suspicion and usually a lot of violence.

Israel, despised by much of the Arab world for existing has profited much more than have the Palestinians who should have allies in the Arab world--which exist only for the purpose of destroying Israel, not for helping Palestinians. Why?

Palestinians DO have friendly countries who would want to be allies. What response should Lebanon, Syria, Egypt do...pick them up in boats? Think about it. US and some NATO members just sent ships to stop any nefarious undertakings. It isn't practical to stand up to US or to appear to support terrorists.
Do you really think there would be an outcry from the US or from Israel if Egypt opened its borders to Palestinians? I don't.
I think Egypt would though. Egypt doesn't want 500,000+ refugees. So we go back to the whole, no one cares about the Palestinians thing.
The only way this ends is if both sides decide that enough children have been murdered and that further bloodshed will beget only death and destruction for all.
And it seems as if that resolution will come to neither of their minds because both sides are under the severe delusion that they can rid the world of the other.
 
As the Norwegians have now pointed out, as I’m sure many others have, the forcible transfer of civilians is a war crime. It is simply madness to order 1.2 million people to evacuate in 24 hours. The very order is a war crime, IMO. Netanyahu, known to be a corrupt and evil man, needs to be at the dock in the Hague.
 
Anthony Blinken is in Qatar. So is the Hamas top echelon. US must insist that Qatar extradite Hamas leadership so they can face justice in Israel. Otherwise, Israel will have to conduct Wrath of God Part II to get them, one way or another.
 
Anthony Blinken is in Qatar. So is the Hamas top echelon. US must insist that Qatar extradite Hamas leadership so they can face justice in Israel. Otherwise, Israel will have to conduct Wrath of God Part II to get them, one way or another.
Yeah, it must be nice to think that sort of thing can happen. If you don't leave any avenue open for communication, things get even worse. And Hamas is like Hydra. Sure you could hold their leaders responsible and execute them, but that hasn't done a thing to stop the next attack. And that is why peace is needed.

I find it confusing that Hamas would be in Qatar. It'd almost be as if they know they went too far... which would be really odd. Hamas won't give the hostages up without an exchange. Threatening them won't make any difference. Attacking them won't make any difference. If I was Israel, I'd find a lowish bar and provide that to them as a one-time deal. That also probably wouldn't work, but there is little doubt that it is in the hostages best interests to be released as soon as possible.
 
Sounds as credible as FOX News, but then Uncle Joe has a long history of making off the cuff gaffes. Followed by the WH walking it back,
Sorry fellow Seattle home buddy (love Seattle!); but I've corrected you on this before. The Joe always cutting gaffes is a fox news meme that is false. He said what appeared to be true. My mind is totally changed after finding out that Hamas killed the babies with bullets rather than by beheading...
Harry, I did not take you for a died in the wool supporter of Biden.

His gaffes are well document and I have seen a few of them.

That goes back before being president.

He made a serious gaffe on direct military action if China stacked Taiwan. His staff walked it back. Not nearly as bad a Trump, Biden has a penchant for making things up on the spot..

His new cliche is ' I/we have your back'. Israel, Ukraine, Taiwan and the situation of the moment.

Biden warns China to leave Taiwan alone and sells weapons to Taiwan. China wants to take over and make it part of the CCP system. Then Biden ignores the colonization and displacement of Palestinians in the West Bank.

Israel knows when it comes down to it the US would fight to save Israel. It emboldens Israel.

Bibi over decades has developed personal relationships with important American politicians. He is a very skilled politician and manipulator.
 
Yeah, it must be nice to think that sort of thing can happen.
Of course that sort of thing can happen. It is well within the power of the Qatari state to arrest and extradite these terrorists to face long overdue justice. It is a matter of the will, not whether it "can happen".
If you don't leave any avenue open for communication, things get even worse.
Communication with whom? Hamas? They are like Nazis. Sure, there should be communication, but that should not mean that we forego justice.
Even Rudolf Hess, who flew into Scotland to talk, was sentenced to life.
And Hamas is like Hydra.
Are we talking the tiny hydrozoan, the mythical creature or the fictional naziesque terrorist group? The last one seems closest to Hamas.
Sure you could hold their leaders responsible and execute them, but that hasn't done a thing to stop the next attack.
Israel does not have the death penalty any more. Adolf Eichmann was the last one executed, afaik, and that was in 1962. 1000 or so life sentences will have to do.
If, however, Qatar refuses to assist in bringing them to justice in a civilized manner, more direct options must be on the table.
And that is why peace is needed.
Peace came to Germany after most of the surviving Nazi leadership were executed. Surviving Nazis were prosecuted for a long time after the war, even when they were rather old. It's not like they were given amnesty. And neither should Hamasniks and other Palestinian terrorists.
 
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