Harris Trump debate

[Derec]

The sources of presented evidence are very one-sided.

It is not.

Solar energy is profitable with current technology even as far north as Northern Finland.

Define "profitable".

Solar and wind energy have a significant share in Germany.

I never disputed they did.
But as nuclear share has been falling due to the government's Atomausstieg decision, fossil fuels filled most of the gap. And coal specifically as gas became more scarce in Europe due to the Ukraine war.

Note also that electricity in Germany costs around 0.40€/kWh ($0.44). It is something like $0.17/kWh here. That's because renewables are heavily subsidized.

ChatGTP gives:

You have ChatGTP write your posts for you now?

 

[Derec]

According to this site (Many Swift Fans are Middle Aged)

While 45 per cent of Swift's US fans are millennials — like the 34-year-old herself — 21 per cent are Gen X and 25 per cent are Boomers, according to a 2023 survey. That means nearly half of her millions of fans are likely over 45.

S0. 91% are of voting age.

I stand corrected then, if this info is right. That said, it is very different age breakdown than that claimed by hurtingbuckaroo in this post.

Unfortunately a lot of Swift's fans are not old enough to vote.

I’ve seen statistics in multiple places claiming that 78% of her fans are age 18-34.

I suspect that the vast majority of "Swifties" already had no intention of voting for Mr. Trump. Whether they intend to vote is a different matter.
If Ms. Swift influences them, it will be to vote at all.

You probably suspect right. But it is surprising how many middle aged fans she has. Unlike young voters, the middle aged already have relatively good turnout.

 

[Henry-Finland]

Let’s imagine that Kamala wins Pennsylvania by 10,000 votes, and this would decide the presidency.
Then we’ll have to thank a porn star (Stormy Daniels) and a pop star (Taylor Swift) for this victory of democracy.

How will this be told to children in history classes in the year 2050?


Photos by Stu and hríb

Would there be a statue of these two?: Representing the profession that made them famous.
A microphone in Swift's hand and a mushroom-like "Humpty Dumpty" in Stormy's hand?

I think it would be something they should be given as a gratitude of the people of the world.

 

[blastula]

We'll see how powerful her endorsement is if it switches TSwizzle's vote.

Sure, Jan.

Going by the reaction of Caitlin Clark's many maga "fans" after she liked Swift's IG post, it's doubtful.

 

[Derec]

Anyone can generally get laid, if they lower their standard of acceptable partner enough.

As long as you include "sex workers" among "acceptable partners". Without that proviso, your statement does not stand to scrutiny.

This is true for women and men. Whatever anecdotal data you have gathered on Tinder,

Do you have any data that suggests that "anyone can generally get laid"?

if women chose a sexual partner based on his looks, humans would have gone extinct a long time ago.

Casual sex market is different than the marriage market though. Not that the marriage market is easy either these days.

Actually, yes. Although she is past breeding age and this is a 12,410 night stand.

How is that a "Mr. Right Now"? A pretty stretchable definition of "right now" I guess. The Swiftie might as well drop the "now" from the descriptor.

 

[Toni]

According to this site (Many Swift Fans are Middle Aged)

While 45 per cent of Swift's US fans are millennials — like the 34-year-old herself — 21 per cent are Gen X and 25 per cent are Boomers, according to a 2023 survey. That means nearly half of her millions of fans are likely over 45.

S0. 91% are of voting age.

I stand corrected then, if this info is right. That said, it is very different age breakdown than that claimed by hurtingbuckaroo in this post.

Unfortunately a lot of Swift's fans are not old enough to vote.

I’ve seen statistics in multiple places claiming that 78% of her fans are age 18-34.

I suspect that the vast majority of "Swifties" already had no intention of voting for Mr. Trump. Whether they intend to vote is a different matter.
If Ms. Swift influences them, it will be to vote at all.

You probably suspect right. But it is surprising how many middle aged fans she has. Unlike young voters, the middle aged already have relatively good turnout.

What is notable is that there were apparently more than 400K new voter registrations within 24 hrs. of Ms. Swift's post urging people to register and vote. I see that as a very good thing.

 

[Derec]

It's ok if you don't like Taylor Swift but millions and millions of people do, many of whom are young women. If you considered just why young women and sometimes their parents are so willing to shell out so much money to see Taylor Swift, you might learn something.

All I know about TS is that she likes to write songs bitching about her ex-boyfriends. Oh, and about 15 years^* ago a guy I knew pointed to the then mich younger TS as his type because, and I quite, she had "small boobs". Make of that what you will.

^* Damn, has she really been around that long?

 

[Henry-Finland]

The sources of presented evidence are very one-sided.

It is not.

Solar energy is profitable with current technology even as far north as Northern Finland.

Define "profitable".

Solar and wind energy have a significant share in Germany.

I never disputed they did.
But as nuclear share has been falling due to the government's Atomausstieg decision, fossil fuels filled most of the gap. And coal specifically as gas became more scarce in Europe due to the Ukraine war.

Note also that electricity in Germany costs around 0.40€/kWh ($0.44). It is something like $0.17/kWh here. That's because renewables are heavily subsidized.

ChatGTP gives:

You have ChatGTP write your posts for you now?

Yes I use it sometimes - then I do not need to Google so much. How so?

"Define "profitable"."
It goes like this:
- I pay now xx €uros per month for electricity.
- I buy a solar power system for XXXX €uros and as I do not have any costs for electricity - and if I will have "the investment" paid in not so many years, then the investment has been profitable.

That aside: The real reason I will invest in solar panels is that I think there is a two-digit % chance that we have a bigger war here in Europe within the next 10-20 years. I do not trust that the community can always distribute electricity for "a normal" price in some bigger crisis. I will also have a gasoline-driven generator.

 

[Ford]

According to this site (Many Swift Fans are Middle Aged)

While 45 per cent of Swift's US fans are millennials — like the 34-year-old herself — 21 per cent are Gen X and 25 per cent are Boomers, according to a 2023 survey. That means nearly half of her millions of fans are likely over 45.

S0. 91% are of voting age.

I stand corrected then, if this info is right. That said, it is very different age breakdown than that claimed by hurtingbuckaroo in this post.

Unfortunately a lot of Swift's fans are not old enough to vote.

I’ve seen statistics in multiple places claiming that 78% of her fans are age 18-34.

I suspect that the vast majority of "Swifties" already had no intention of voting for Mr. Trump. Whether they intend to vote is a different matter.
If Ms. Swift influences them, it will be to vote at all.

You probably suspect right. But it is surprising how many middle aged fans she has. Unlike young voters, the middle aged already have relatively good turnout.

What is notable is that there were apparently more than 400K new voter registrations within 24 hrs. of Ms. Swift's post urging people to register and vote. I see that as a very good thing.

400k visits to the vote.gov site, not necessarily registrations. But still, impressive.

 

[Bronzeage]

Anyone can generally get laid, if they lower their standard of acceptable partner enough.

As long as you include "sex workers" among "acceptable partners". Without that proviso, your statement does not stand to scrutiny.

This is true for women and men. Whatever anecdotal data you have gathered on Tinder,

Do you have any data that suggests that "anyone can generally get laid"?

if women chose a sexual partner based on his looks, humans would have gone extinct a long time ago.

Casual sex market is different than the marriage market though. Not that the marriage market is easy either these days.

If you are going to rely on your personal experience to convince me you can't find a woman who will have sex with, unless you pay, I can rely on my experience for to dispute it. It just so happens that tomorrow, September 14th marks my 53rd year of sexual activity. I've been active in the "market" (casual and non casual) for a long time. Economic theory defines a market as any system which reduces transaction costs. In other words, something that brings seller and buyer together to exchange a good or service. Sex is a strange market, as both seller and buyer are the service. Weird, huh? I've known quite a few men who were far from magazine cover attractive. Very far. Yet, they were able to find a willing partner. In other words, I've seen it done. As I said at the beginning, if good advice could solve all problems, the world would be a perfect place.

 

[Derec]

Yes I use it sometimes - then I do not need to Google so much. How so?

Always double-check what it spits out. These consumer-grade LLMs are prone to hallucinations.

"Define "profitable"."
It goes like this:
- I pay now xx €uros per month for electricity.
- I buy a solar power system for XXXX €uros and as I do not have any costs for electricity - and if I will have "the investment" paid in not so many years, then the investment has been profitable.

Thought so. That profitability relies on government subsidies. That's because, as you can see from the map, Finland, especially northern Finland, does not get that much solar energy input compared to most other places.
Anyway, what is the payback time in Finland these days?

That aside: The real reason I will invest in solar panels is that I think there is a two-digit % chance that we have a bigger war here in Europe within the next 10-20 years. I do not trust that the community can always distribute electricity for "a normal" price in some bigger crisis. I will also have a gasoline-driven generator.

That's similar to the reason why I am thinking about a moderate-sized solar system with battery backup. Not because of chance of war, but there is always a chance of an extended blackout due to a natural disaster.
However, despite decent sunshine, the payback time is pretty long here because installation costs are high and government subsidies meager compared to Europe and certain US states.

 

[Derec]

What you are mistaking is that while Democrats push to turn out minority vote, because the +/- is huge, they scrape and scrap for every suburban (white) vote possible.

Their rhetoric and policy proposals are very focused on certain demographics. For example, most Dems support race-based admissions, and many, including Kamala herself, support reparations.
Advocates hope Harris will boost momentum on reparations to Black Americans

In a sense, the most valuable votes are in the suburbs. The rural areas are conservative, the urban areas are liberal. Both parties, especially Trump regarding rural areas push hard for turnout in those areas. But both parties fight to death for the suburban vote because that is where elections are generally won and lost. To suggest Democrats don't care about white votes is brazenly ignorant.

I don't think so. Look at the policies they embrace. Like Biden's race-based subsidies for farmers.
The Biden Administration Carves Out Relief for Farmers of Color

Similarly, Dems talk much about policies helping women specifically.

We aren't voting for Swift.

And yet there is much praise for her. Contrast that with people wishing that billionaires would die in the "Billionaires blast off" thread.

You might need to take a step back and recognize that these two people are generally being judged by what they say and how they say it, not who they are.

They are also being judged for starting space companies, among other things.

Spoiler

People bought this ugly thing because Musk said to.[/quote]
I will concede that this thing is ugly. But in general, Teslas are quite good looking cars. And they brought EVs into the mainstream, something very much necessary for decarbonization. Elon Musk did far more for the climate than AOC with her Green New Deal to Nowhere.

Again with this nonsense. Taylor Swift fans might "fawn" over Taylor Swift, but Democrats in general aren't. No one in this forum is now supporting Harris because Swift suggested doing so. Some people in this forum are happy that she might aid in increasing turnout among a generally unreliable age group. In close states, 1 or 2% higher female turnout could mean the difference or help provide enough of a narrative that Trump can't try and steal an election again.

There is a generally positive portrayal of her, very different to how most other rich people are viewed. No "if she paid her staff fairly she would not be a billionaire" for Swift.

 

[Derec]

I certainly hope Ms Harris frequently wonders out loud how a nan who is afraid to debate his opponent can handle dealing with unfriendly world leaders.

Pretty racist of you, Hound. Almost up there with Laura "White House will smell like curry" Loomer.

 

[Derec]

How are these more "fawning" that excessive praise you Dems have for Swift?

“you Dems” is something I’d expect from a Trump fan.

Or an independent who is not part of either camp.

 

[Shadowy Man]

It's ok if you don't like Taylor Swift but millions and millions of people do, many of whom are young women. If you considered just why young women and sometimes their parents are so willing to shell out so much money to see Taylor Swift, you might learn something.

All I know about TS is that she likes to write songs bitching about her ex-boyfriends. Oh, and about 15 years^* ago a guy I knew pointed to the then mich younger TS as his type because, and I quite, she had "small boobs". Make of that what you will.

^* Damn, has she really been around that long?

Spurned lover is so common among pop music, even perhaps some you might describe as good, that is basically cliche. So it’s not really a criticism of her work to mention that. If that’s all you know about her and her music then you are not knowledgeable enough to present a critique worthy of consideration.

 

[Shadowy Man]

I certainly hope Ms Harris frequently wonders out loud how a nan who is afraid to debate his opponent can handle dealing with unfriendly world leaders.

Pretty racist of you, Hound. Almost up there with Laura "White House will smell like curry" Loomer.

That would be naan.

 

[laughing dog]

How are these more "fawning" that excessive praise you Dems have for Swift?

“you Dems” is something I’d expect from a Trump fan.

Or an independent who is not part of either camp.

No, I wouldn’t expect that from a true independent.

 

[bilby]

That's similar to the reason why I am thinking about a moderate-sized solar system with battery backup. Not because of chance of war, but there is always a chance of an extended blackout due to a natural disaster.

Be aware, most such systems do not provide power if the grid connection is down, because the inverter depends on the grid to supply a phase matching signal.

So they are worthless for blackout protection.

To get blackout protection you will need a much more expensive system than those typically offered for sale; Or a small generator to provide the inverter with a phase to match (in which case, why not just buy a generator?).

Where I live is one of the best places in the world for solar power. My 10kW system will pay my installation cost in about three or four years, but I use a lot of power for a/c and refrigeration; If I only used the typical amount for similarly sized homes, it would take closer to eight years - and that's starting to approach the ten year guarantee lifespan of the inverter and panels. Of course, a good inverter, well sited in a cool spot, will likely last a lot longer than the guarantee, and quality panels should last longer still.

All of that is based only on paying my costs, which are only about two thirds of the price charged by the installer/supplier of the system; The other third is a government subsidy.

If paying full market price, and getting a feed in tariff that approximates the minimum wholesale price of electricity ($0.05/kWh), while paying a reasonable ($0.32/kWh) price for electricity bought from the grid, a typical Queensland home can get an ROI in about a decade, making a system viable, but not hugely profitable - though it is very advantageous for the homeowner, who gets a 50% return due to the government subsidy. So it is a way of redistributing wealth from the taxpayers, to middle class homeowners. I would like to thank all the poor people, who work hard to pay rent, for their generous gift.

You can try to leverage the difference between the feed-in and draw-down tariff to pay for a battery, but the ROI (at least in my case) is longer than the life of the battery, so it isn't worth doing at current prices, even with government subsidies, and even if you don't worry about strapping a fire hazard to your house.

Of course, a battery means less coal
power bought from the grid, so some would say that it's worth having even if the financial cost/benefit is a wash; But that ignores the carbon footprint of the battery itself, which is huge - so installing one is likely a wash from a CO₂ perspective, too.

Regardless, if the mains power goes down, I have no power, no matter how much sunlight is hitting my rooftop panels.

 

[Rhea]

LoL, me pointing out that she is, in fact, a billionaire based on sales, is a fact, not a love letter.

You did more than that.

I can see that it seems that way to you. I’m surprised, to be candid. There are some entertainers that I fawn over (Olga Korbut, Simone Biles, Jim Rice, Bobby Orr, Bonnie Raitt, Julia Child). Swift is not one of them. But, perhaps that all looks the same to you. It feels very very different to me.

She has managed to take over a billion dollars into her pocket from people who like what she is selling.

So did Musk. So did Bezos.

But it is obvious to the most casual observe that Swift did it by forming a relationship with her customers, and they did not, and hence the very very different reception.

This was not obvious to you?

Why would you want to introduce the hyperbole, the inaccuracy, of saying my description of her value to the democratic party strategists equals “fawning”?

Because of the uncritically positive portrayal of her in your post.

In what way were you expecting me to be critical when discussing her ability to act as an impetus factor for her fans to vote? What did you expect to hear otherwise?

Fact: Her audience is a valuable demographic. And there are a lot of them. Dem strategists would be fools to miss that fact.

And yet Dem strategists do not see my demographic as "valuable".

What is your demographic and what is it that makes you think Dems don’t see them as valuable?

In reality, Dems are aware of many, disparate, distinct and unconnected valuable demographics, and they understand that they need to reach them all. Swift only appeals to one demographic. They are not enough to win elections alone, though. We all know that.

So what demographic are you?

You keep telling yourself that you want to believe a thing without checking it. Go right ahead.

Do you have a citation that "vast majority" of Swifties are 18-34 or not?

This is interesting. You had at least two choices in this thought of yours. You could have been curious about what demographic she can get messages to (this is the area of interest for political strategists, and people who are discussing their choices in good faith), or you could have declared that she has no value and people talking about her are just fawning (this the area of interest for grievance whiners). You chose the latter. What is the value in declaring a statement and not caring if it is true, and then arguing against people who suggest to you that you are wrong? I mean, it is so simple, like the jitterbug, to not be wrong in this. Just look it up.

Being curious would have been so easy. Except for possibly the hurdle of acknowledging that she has value in society. That was perhaps too big a hurdle to overcome.

From statista:

According to a survey from March 2023 among U.S. Taylor Swift fans, also called 'Swifties', the largest share of Swift fans were in the group of millenials. The second largest share was within the group of baby boomers, followed by Gen X. In 2023, Swift announced her first tour in years, called 'Era', which already caused chaos when her significant fan base tried to purchase tickets for the long anticipated concerts. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1372971/taylor-swift-fans-by-generation/

Is it a personal attack to suppose that you might not value women for the value they bring - in an exchange where you are disparaging the nvalue a woman brings?

I am criticizing the uncritical portrayal of Taylor Swift by Democrats.

I’m still surprise that you are looking for a “critical portrayal” when people are talking about her ability to bring eyeballs to a message. What on earth are you expecting? “Taylor Swift can bring a message to 10 million followers, but single white immigrant men don’t like her.” Is that the balance you need? What criticism is appriopriate in a discussion of how many people read her tweets? Can you give an example?

And I am contrasting it with the negative portrayal of most other billionaires. Elon Musk - "it was all luck, he played no role in the success of Tesla and Space X, he should be taxed heavily, he should not get to have a spaceship". Taylor Swift "talented and deft businesswoman, wasn't it great she flew from Tokyo to Las Vegas?".

Musk does not bring new voters to any party. He reaches an existing fan base.
Oh, in how they made their money?
Swift does not have anyone else singing for her. She does not buy singers and then cause them to make more money (I mean, that I know of?). She gets up on stage, in person, and people pay money to watch her, personally, make a product for them.
Musk, on the other hand, has had his brand tarnished recently by buying Twitter in a tantrum for an unbusiness-like terrible price and he is making it worse. So his brand used to be much more favorable, even while it was made by him having other people make a product under his direction. But lately, it’s a series of own goals, so of course no one is fawning over him like they used to.

You keep using this word. You are not using it like the rest of the english-speakers use it.
Fawning is Mitch McConnel saying he supports Trump. Fawning is Elise Stefanik going to Mar-a-Lago.

How are these more "fawning" that excessive praise you Dems have for Swift?

They are “fawning” because they are not even honest with themselves, theyv are seeking to flatter. To me that is a much more accurate version of fawning. But your mileage may vary.

 

[Henry-Finland]

Thought so. That profitability relies on government subsidies. That's because, as you can see from the map, Finland, especially northern Finland, does not get that much solar energy input compared to most other places.
Anyway, what is the payback time in Finland these days?

I live in Bulgaria nowadays.
I do not know the profit/subsidiaries in Finland. Anyway, a governmental study showed some years ago that with the newest tech it is profitable. I have a friend living at the Polar Circle and he has built a system and he says that it works, but in the middle of winter, he needs some additional electricity source. He is "a propeller-hat" - that helps I think.

Here in Bulgaria - too much sun in the summer - no subsidies.