Immigrant Concentration Camps

[ronburgundy]

. No news reports from inside the facilities. That's why many people are saying it's fake news. The PBS video did not show any video from inside the places.

No, they are saying "fake news" b/c they are liars who could care less if Trump kills children, so long as they are brown and outside the mother's womb. Only such dishonest liars would pretend they don't realize that ICE completely controls what is allowed to be photographed or filmed.

 

[bilby]

How about the 'ghettos' in places like La, Chicago, and Detroit where kids are gunned down on the streets from gang conflicts?

What about them? Are people forced to live there by the authorities? No? Then you appear to simply be introducing a non-sequitur in an attempt to change the subject away from the uncomfortable fact that your nation is keeping people in concentration camps.

If we want to make Nazi references.

We don't. You, apparently, do - as do a bunch of ignorant and/or malicious people who are trying to insist tbat a concentration camp doesn't count as a concentration camp unless it's an extermination camp. Which introduces Nazis to a previously Nazi free discussion. Concentration camps are not specific to Nazism. Never were. Except perhaps in the ignorant lack of understanding of people with no grasp of history beyond WWII action movies.

All things considered, the focus on the state of illegal immigrants is another case of selective morality which is easy to inflate with streams of images of babies and mothers.

So you advocate ignoring the fact that your country is putting children in concentration camps. That's pretty difficult to defend.

Migrants say they are fleeing gang violence.

Indeed they do.

Some people from neighborhoods in Detroit might be better off going to Mexico and claiming asylum.

Even if that were true, it wouldn't change the fact that the US Government is putting children in concentration camps.

In some neighborhoods kids can not play on streets or walk to school.

I see. And does the government round them up, separate them from their parents, and put them in concentration camps?

No?

Then why are you trying to change the subject?

If it makes you feel uncomfortable to have your government accused of putting children in concentration canps, then GOOD. It SHOULD make you uncomfortable. And you should do something other than try to rationalise your desire to ignore it.

 

[Arctish]

All things considered, the focus on the state of illegal immigrants is another case of selective morality which is easy to inflate with streams of images of babies and mothers.

It's not selective morality, it's just morality.

It should be easy to see the immorality of traumatizing children and their parents through needless separation and incarceration. But apparently some folks can't see it while others refuse to look, so anyone who cares about the immorality of this policy has to be pretty blunt in making their case.

We built concentration camps and we need to dismantle them right fucking now!

 

[Patooka]

There is a simple fix for this. AOC needs to stop calling detention centres concentration camps and start calling them gulags. Then the conditions that are being imposed upon these people are magically improved, right? Because that's the real issue here according to intellectual giants like Shapiro and Carlson. Not that these atrocities are happening, not that fuck all is being done to address the issue, but how we label it. It's all about the brand, stupid.

You're onto something here. If AOC and crew didn't over reach, more centrists may believe what is actually going on, rather than dismissing it all as a political football.

You completely missed the point I was trying to make. Forget the fact that it appears gulags are more palatable than concentration camps in your eyes, getting one's panties in a twist over the nomenclature is fucking absurd considering the conditions we are describing. George Takei lived in a concentration camp, he seems to think they are the same. Experts who have literally written the book on concentration camps say AOC is completely justified in calling these places as such. People who are more offended about the description of what is going on than what is actually fucking going definitely need to reexamine their priorities.

 

[steve_bank]

All things considered, the focus on the state of illegal immigrants is another case of selective morality which is easy to inflate with streams of images of babies and mothers.

It's not selective morality, it's just morality.

It should be easy to see the immorality of traumatizing children and their parents through needless separation and incarceration. But apparently some folks can't see it while others refuse to look, so anyone who cares about the immorality of this policy has to be pretty blunt in making their case.

We built concentration camps and we need to dismantle them right fucking now!

Selective outrage. What about the Detroit ghettos where gangs rule the streets and kids are killed on the streets? I am not saying the situation is not a moral issue and is not a tragedy. I am saying it is an easy situation to rear up on your high horse and moralize.

What the fuck did you care about these people before the border crisis developed? Have you ever questioned our low food prices and variety of foods available 24/7 due to cheap migrant labor in the USA and cheaper labor in Mexico? Those fresh tomatoes?

Here in Washington State the apple industry would be in trouble without cheap migrant labor. The situation has improved. Growers tend to provide decent housing, kids have access to education, and health care. But they work cheap and when the season is over they are shit out of luck.

You see, the media morality is essentially bullshit, it always has been. Same with people. Periodical they get a moral twinge based on the media issue of the day, than they go back to sleep. Back to video games. Back to pot. Back to beer.

You awareness of the totality of migrant and illegal workers past and present appears shallow, if I do say so myself.

Do you know who Cesar Chavez was? We just had the yearly Chavez festival in Seattle.

 

[Patooka]

All things considered, the focus on the state of illegal immigrants is another case of selective morality which is easy to inflate with streams of images of babies and mothers.

It's not selective morality, it's just morality.

It should be easy to see the immorality of traumatizing children and their parents through needless separation and incarceration. But apparently some folks can't see it while others refuse to look, so anyone who cares about the immorality of this policy has to be pretty blunt in making their case.

We built concentration camps and we need to dismantle them right fucking now!

Selective outrage. What about the Detroit ghettos where gangs rule the streets and kids are killed on the streets? I am not saying the situation is not a moral issue and is not a tragedy. I am saying it is an easy situation to rear up on your high horse and moralize.

What the fuck did you care about these people before the border crisis developed? Have you ever questioned our low food prices and variety of foods available 24/7 due to cheap migrant labor in the USA and cheaper labor in Mexico? Those fresh tomatoes?

Here in Washington State the apple industry would be in trouble without cheap migrant labor. The situation has improved. Growers tend to provide decent housing, kids have access to education, and health care. But they work cheap and when the season is over they are shit out of luck.

You see, the media morality is essentially bullshit, it always has been. Same with people. Periodical they get a moral twinge based on the media issue of the day, than they go back to sleep. Back to video games. Back to pot. Back to beer.

You awareness of the totality of migrant and illegal workers past and present appears shallow, if I do say so myself.

Do you know who Cesar Chavez was? We just had the yearly Chavez festival in Seattle.

None of your whataboutism example were a direct result of government policy. This is. The Trump administration knowingly and willingly created this atrocity. That's fucked up and that is what the outrage was about..

 

[laughing dog]

How about the 'ghettos' in places like La, Chicago, and Detroit where kids are gunned down on the streets from gang conflicts? If we want to make Nazi references.

Unless you are saying that is explicit gov't policy, it is babbling nonsense. And if you are saying it is explicit gov't policy, than it is incredibly moronic nonsense.

All things considered, the focus on the state of illegal immigrants is another case of selective morality which is easy to inflate with streams of images of babies and mothers.Migrants say they are fleeing gang violence. Some people from neighborhoods in Detroit might be better off going to Mexico and claiming asylum. In some neighborhoods kids can not play on streets or walk to school.

And if those people from Detroit did, they would not be put in concentration camps, so your example is incredibly stupid.

 

[Angry Floof]

It's astounding what lengths people will go to to NOT hold power accountable. Anything but that! Point to the poorest and least powerful among us and say they're just as bad and then the corrupt powerful can be safely ignored. It's mind boggling.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

Guess you didn't watch the clip. Shapiro said the Dems refuse to sign the check for better beds and better conditions.

And Shapiro is pants-on-fire lying. Reality:

There is a bill the Senate passed. There is a bill the House passed. They are currently trying to come to a compromise.

 

[angelo]

I can't speak for LD but I would say adequately funding immigration services and relaxing the absolutely fucking stupid requirements for immigration would go a long way.

Then, we wouldn't have a backlog of 100k people seeking to immigrate in the first place. We didn't have this kind of backlog before the administration created it out of nothing.

Oh? Immigration has been horribly underfunded for ages. The processing time for applications can be years.

3 decades ago I applied for permanent residency for my wife. The first "interview" was almost 6 months later. It was about a week short of two years when they finally approved her conditional permanent residency. (And I think the timing was deliberate, had they waited another week it would have simply been permanent residency with no conditional on it.) Since then I've seen them take more than a year to process a fairly simple piece of paperwork. This all predates His Flatulence's era--I haven't had any contact with them since he came to power.

Yes, but in 2019 it's cool to blame Hs Flatulence for practically anything and everything that happens in the world, including cows farting!

 

[Patooka]

I can't speak for LD but I would say adequately funding immigration services and relaxing the absolutely fucking stupid requirements for immigration would go a long way.

Then, we wouldn't have a backlog of 100k people seeking to immigrate in the first place. We didn't have this kind of backlog before the administration created it out of nothing.

Oh? Immigration has been horribly underfunded for ages. The processing time for applications can be years.

3 decades ago I applied for permanent residency for my wife. The first "interview" was almost 6 months later. It was about a week short of two years when they finally approved her conditional permanent residency. (And I think the timing was deliberate, had they waited another week it would have simply been permanent residency with no conditional on it.) Since then I've seen them take more than a year to process a fairly simple piece of paperwork. This all predates His Flatulence's era--I haven't had any contact with them since he came to power.

Yes, but in 2019 it's cool to blame Hs Flatulence for practically anything and everything that happens in the world, including cows farting!

Good point. Now you have the opportunity to prove it.

 

[angelo]

As this report states, this camp was also used by the Obama Administration To house children of illegal migrants as well. Why is this ignored today just because there happens to be a GOP president in power?

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/18/...entration-camps-migrants-detention/index.html

 

[Patooka]

As this report states, this camp was also used by the Obama Administration To house children of illegal migrants as well. Why is this ignored today just because there happens to be a GOP president in power?

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/18/...entration-camps-migrants-detention/index.html

Oh for fucks sake, this one is a no brainer:

During the Obama administration, family separations were rare and predicated upon two conditions: whether border officials felt the parents or guardians posed a threat to the children, or whether the adults, under U.S. immigration law, had to be detained based on prior criminal convictions.

Shall I spell it out for you? Children were separated during the Obama administration when, and only when the child's well being was at risk if they stayed with their parents. (it's called duty of care)

Children are compulsorily being separated during the Trump administration because, well, fuck em that's why (not exactly duty of care).

Spot the difference.

 

[steve_bank]

I do not think people, realize the scope of the problem. Somehow we are supposed to quickly supply housing, food, water, and medical care for hundreds of thousands of people. It is an impossible task.

It is like building a small city from scratch on demand.

The crisis is exacerbated by the belief that if they get here especially with kids they are home free. Sanctuary cites and a sanctuary state like Ca is a magnet for people. Ca now wants to tax medical insurance policies to pay for illegal immigrant health care.

How many people should we accommodate? We have trouble providng health care and education for citizens as it is.

The sane orderly thing to do is by law limit the number of people that can get in a queue and accept no more until a spot opens in the line. An ever increasing number of people piling up on the border is impossible to deal with.

The border security people have been complaining about the lack of resources for many years.

As much as I despise trump, blame congress. They own immigration and kicked the can down the road for decades, both parties. You can't just dump it all on Trump, this time.

It is now an intractable problem. It is like working against a flood.

 

[bilby]

I do not think people,

Well kudos to you for admitting it.

realize the scope of the problem. Somehow we are supposed to quickly supply housing, food, water, and medical care for hundreds of thousands of people. It is an impossible task.

It is like building a small city from scratch on demand.

The crisis is exacerbated by the belief that if they get here especially with kids they are home free. Sanctuary cites and a sanctuary state like Ca is a magnet for people. Ca now wants to tax medical insurance policies to pay for illegal immigrant health care.

How many people should we accommodate? We have trouble providng health care and education for citizens as it is.

The sane orderly thing to do is by law limit the number of people that can get in a queue and accept no more until a spot opens in the line. An ever increasing number of people piling up on the border is impossible to deal with.

The border security people have been complaining about the lack of resources for many years.

As much as I despise trump, blame congress. They own immigration and kicked the can down the road for decades, both parties. You can't just dump it all on Trump, this time.

It is now an intractable problem. It is like working against a flood.

Yup, your initial assertion was absolutely spot on.

Just a word to the wise - nobody will accept the excuse that you do not think, as justification for your inaction.

History will judge you harshly.

 

[angelo]

As of 2018 there were 65.5 million refugees [not economic migrants] on the planet. Exactly how many of these should the US embrace, 50%, 30%, or even just 10%. Now add perhaps the 100's of millions of economic migrants to those numbers as well. The US would cease to be a nation in it's own right, if not a downright another Venezuela, but on a giangatic scale if the border is even remotely weakened.

 

[Patooka]

I do not think people, realize the scope of the problem. Somehow we are supposed to quickly supply housing, food, water, and medical care for hundreds of thousands of people. It is an impossible task.

It is like building a small city from scratch on demand.

That argument might hold water in June 2017. Trump has been President for over two and a half years and mentioned immigration as something he would fix in his first speech when announcing he would be running for president four fucking years ago. For the majority of his presidency, he has had the unquestioning support of Congress and has done fuck all to address this issue. That either means he is incompetent, or just doesn't give a fuck (I'm leaning towards "all of the above").

How many people should we accommodate? We have trouble providng health care and education for citizens as it is.

Short version: the US shouldn't have a problem providing healthcare and education. Again it speaks volumes about this administration's priorities.

The sane orderly thing to do is by law limit the number of people that can get in a queue and accept no more until a spot opens in the line. An ever increasing number of people piling up on the border is impossible to deal with.

Do you know how many years it will take for your asylum request to be processed? I'll give you a hint: Paul Manafort will be out of prison by the time you claim would be processed if it started this year. And if you are unaware of how critically under resourced immigration processing is in the United States, here is Patooka posting another fucking John Oliver video on youtube:
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fB0GBwJ2QA&t=2s[/youtube]

So maybe the sane thing to do is give USCIS the funding they need instead of tax cut to rich people who don't deserve it (something that Trump was able to accomplish in record time, which again, shows where his priorities are).

As much as I despise trump, blame congress. They own immigration and kicked the can down the road for decades, both parties. You can't just dump it all on Trump, this time.

Which political party over the last eight years been consistently in control of congress? I'll give you a hint - it rhymes with cuntcunticans.

It is now an intractable problem. It is like working against a flood

Didn't have to be. And so long as people are going to ignore how this sorry state of affairs came to be, it's not going to get fixed.

 

[Angry Floof]

As of 2018 there were 65.5 million refugees [not economic migrants] on the planet. Exactly how many of these should the US embrace, 50%, 30%, or even just 10%. Now add perhaps the 100's of millions of economic migrants to those numbers as well. The US would cease to be a nation in it's own right, if not a downright another Venezuela, but on a giangatic scale if the border is even remotely weakened.

Exactly how much cruelty, trauma, death, and suffering are you willing to turn a blind eye to just to avoid holding corrupt powers accountable?

 

[laughing dog]

As of 2018 there were 65.5 million refugees [not economic migrants] on the planet. Exactly how many of these should the US embrace, 50%, 30%, or even just 10%. Now add perhaps the 100's of millions of economic migrants to those numbers as well. The US would cease to be a nation in it's own right, if not a downright another Venezuela, but on a giangatic scale if the border is even remotely weakened.

What prompted this inane straw man?

 

[laughing dog]

I do not think people, realize the scope of the problem. Somehow we are supposed to quickly supply housing, food, water, and medical care for hundreds of thousands of people. It is an impossible task.

It is like building a small city from scratch on demand.

The crisis is exacerbated by the belief that if they get here especially with kids they are home free. Sanctuary cites and a sanctuary state like Ca is a magnet for people. Ca now wants to tax medical insurance policies to pay for illegal immigrant health care.

How many people should we accommodate? We have trouble providng health care and education for citizens as it is.

The sane orderly thing to do is by law limit the number of people that can get in a queue and accept no more until a spot opens in the line. An ever increasing number of people piling up on the border is impossible to deal with.

The border security people have been complaining about the lack of resources for many years.

As much as I despise trump, blame congress. They own immigration and kicked the can down the road for decades, both parties. You can't just dump it all on Trump, this time.

It is now an intractable problem. It is like working against a flood.

There are not "hundreds of thousands" of migrants that quickly need housing, food and medical care, so your entire response is based on a delusion.