January 6 Hearings Live

[ideologyhunter]

Functioning: if we didn't know it 5 years ago, we know it now: a demagogue who is determined to derange any/all departments of government and make them do his will can do it, and in the right circumstances, such as a schizoid political landscape and control of the Senate, can avoid oversight and treat impeachment like a joke. And a minority party can skew election and districting laws to rule over a majority. The Constitution, which we were taught in school was written with extra-careful rules to circumvent abuse of power, has critical weaknesses and means nothing if we have a Senate which will not uphold it. The impeachment process in particular is impotent.

 

[Elixir]

Functioning: if we didn't know it 5 years ago, we know it now: a demagogue who is determined to derange any/all departments of government and make them do his will can do it, and in the right circumstances, such as a schizoid political landscape and control of the Senate, can avoid oversight and treat impeachment like a joke. And a minority party can skew election and districting laws to rule over a majority. The Constitution, which we were taught in school was written with extra-careful rules to circumvent abuse of power, has critical weaknesses and means nothing if we have a Senate which will not uphold it. The impeachment process in particular is impotent.

Maybe Democrats should start by considering a resolution to begin developing a framework for debating whether or not to initiate discussions about whether or not to pursue enforcement of Congressional supboenas.

 

[lpetrich]

Trump Enjoyed Watching Capitol Riots And Boasted Crowd Size, New Book Claims - News Logics

Former President Donald Trump bragged about the size of the crowd on January 6 when rioters attacked the United States Capitol, a new book claims.

Trump watched on television in the private dining room of the White House as a crowd of his supporters stormed the Capitol and chanted “Hang Mike Pence,” he writes. ABC News Chief Washington Correspondent Jonathan Karl in his new book Betrayal: the final act of the Trump show.

He reportedly enjoyed what he saw and argued with aides who wanted him to send a message to his supporters to stop rioting.

“Trump had to record the message several times before they thought he got it right,” said an aide who was present.

Even then, he praised the attackers. He didn't say anything like "I suspect that many of you will be facing criminal charges for your conduct. I hope that you will be mature and take your lumps and be model prisoners and not act like whiny liberals."

BETRAYAL by Jonathan Karl at Penguin Random House

Betrayal: The Final Act of the Trump Show
By Jonathan Karl

On sale November 16, 2021 – Preorder Now

Picking up where the New York Times bestselling Front Row at the Trump Show left off, this is the explosive look at the aftermath of the election—and the events that followed Donald Trump’s leaving the White House—from ABC News' chief Washington correspondent.

 

[Shadowy Man]

To be fair, while Obama had the larger inauguration crowd, Trump did indeed have a larger insurrection crowd.

 

[lpetrich]

The biggest GOP flip-flops on Trump post-Jan. 6, ranked - The Washington Post

1. Nikki Haley

2. Rep. Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.)

3. Sen. Lindsey O. Graham (R-S.C.)

4. Mike Pence

5. Rep. Nancy Mace (R-S.C.)

6. Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.)

There's more.

South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley Doesn't Understand Why Chris Christie Endorsed Donald Trump - ABC News - 2016 Feb 28

"Marco Rubio is the only one that can defeat Donald Trump and Marco Rubio can beat Hillary Clinton and will win in November," she said.

Haley said Trump is everything "we teach our kids not to do in kindergarten." She added Rubio's recent jabs at Trump show he was willing to lead and fight with passion and is "exactly what we tell our children also -- if a bully hits you, you hit back."

Then she became Trump's UN ambassador.

The Nancy Mace-AOC feud, briefly explained - Vox
NM cowered in her office during those attacks, then claimed that AOC was a drama queen about those attacks.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

link

A US Capitol Police officer was indicted on obstruction charges in connection to the January 6 insurrection at the US Capitol.

According to the indictment, Michael A. Riley told a contact online to remove posts showing the person was in the Capitol building that day.
Prosecutors allege that on the day after the insurrection, Riley sent a private message on Facebook to a person who had posted selfies and videos about being in the Capitol, and whom Riley had been in fishing-related Facebook groups with.

What is interesting about this is that the officer told a person to take documents off the internet... ie... told them to stop confessing in public. Is that really obstruction?

I mean it pisses me off that this guy was a police officer in DC and says "who agrees with your political stance", and apparently cool with what went down. That is just grounds for getting fired as a police officer, especially when said coworkers were getting attacked by these people, with the officer even saying "We had over 50 officers hurt, some pretty bad".

But is it obstruction to effectively tell a person, 'Hey, stop openly admitting to a crime in public.'?

 

[blastula]

Allegedly he told the guy to delete his messages, and concealing evidence is obstruction. He's charged with 2 counts, one for telling the guy to delete messages and one for deleting his own. He deleted his after hearing that the FBI had asked the other guy about him, and then he sent the guy a lol fake message, saying, I'm so very mad at you for lying to me about what you did at the capitol.

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/21085728/10-14-21-us-v-michael-riley-indictment.pdf

 

[Angry Floof]

link

A US Capitol Police officer was indicted on obstruction charges in connection to the January 6 insurrection at the US Capitol.

According to the indictment, Michael A. Riley told a contact online to remove posts showing the person was in the Capitol building that day.
Prosecutors allege that on the day after the insurrection, Riley sent a private message on Facebook to a person who had posted selfies and videos about being in the Capitol, and whom Riley had been in fishing-related Facebook groups with.

What is interesting about this is that the officer told a person to take documents off the internet... ie... told them to stop confessing in public. Is that really obstruction?

Definitely. Electronic messages are evidence, and so deleting them or telling someone to delete them is obstruction. (I remember this conversation about Martha Stewart.)

I mean it pisses me off that this guy was a police officer in DC and says "who agrees with your political stance", and apparently cool with what went down. That is just grounds for getting fired as a police officer, especially when said coworkers were getting attacked by these people, with the officer even saying "We had over 50 officers hurt, some pretty bad".

But is it obstruction to effectively tell a person, 'Hey, stop openly admitting to a crime in public.'?

Yeah, how you say it does matter. If it's "delete all your posts about your crime," then yes.

 

[Keith&Co.]

But is it obstruction to effectively tell a person, 'Hey, stop openly admitting to a crime in public.'?

yes.
"Hey, that crime you committed? You should actively take steps to reduce the chance of being prosecuted for it. And, also, here are THE STEPS TO TAKE."

I mean, it might not be to go online, like in this forum, to say, "these people are admitting to crimes on the internet. This will have consequences.'

Or, on a heist movie appreciation forum, talk about crooks leaving internet evidence and what should be done.
Direct message to a person you know is a crime committer, with instructions about deleting real, not hypothetical evidence of the crime? That's obstruction.

Like if somedone on Mueller's staff told a Trump aide, "Gosh, i sure hope you shredded the transcript of that 8.75-minute phone call on September 3rd, at 9:46 Eastern, to phone number 208-494-6656. Just saying."

 

[ZiprHead]

Trumpist county clerk barred after leak of voting-system passwords to QAnon
Peters lied about "consultant" who copied data; deputy clerk had cameras disabled.

A Colorado judge on Wednesday barred Mesa County Clerk Tina Peters from supervising elections due to the leak of voting-system BIOS passwords to QAnon conspiracy theorist Ron Watkins. Colorado Secretary of State Jena Griswold and Mesa County registered elector Heidi Jeanne Hess had petitioned the court for a ruling that Peters and Deputy Clerk Belinda Knisley are unable to perform the functions of the Designated Election Official for the November 2021 election.

The "court determines that the petitioners have met the burden of showing that Peters and Knisley have committed a breach and neglect of duty and other wrongful acts," Mesa County District Court Judge Valerie Robison wrote in Wednesday's ruling. "As such, Peters and Knisley are unable or unwilling to appropriately perform the duties of the Mesa County Designated Election Official. The court further determines substantial compliance with the provisions of the code require an injunction prohibiting Peters and Knisley from performing the duties of the Designated Election Official."

In August, Watkins released photos of information on Dominion's Election Management Systems (EMS) voting machines, including an installation manual and "BIOS passwords for a small collection of computers, including EMS server and client systems," as we reported at the time. While Watkins, a former 8chan administrator, was trying to prove that Dominion can remotely administer the machines, the documents actually showed "a generic set of server hardware, with explicit instructions to keep it off the Internet and lock down its remote management functions."

 

[Angry Floof]

Wow, election crime much, trumpy dipshits?

 

[Elixir]

But is it obstruction to effectively tell a person, 'Hey, stop openly admitting to a crime in public.'?

yes.
"Hey, that crime you committed? You should actively take steps to reduce the chance of being prosecuted for it. And, also, here are THE STEPS TO TAKE."

I mean, it might not be to go online, like in this forum, to say, "these people are admitting to crimes on the internet. This will have consequences.'

Or, on a heist movie appreciation forum, talk about crooks leaving internet evidence and what should be done.
Direct message to a person you know is a crime committer, with instructions about deleting real, not hypothetical evidence of the crime? That's obstruction.

Like if somedone on Mueller's staff told a Trump aide, "Gosh, i sure hope you shredded the transcript of that 8.75-minute phone call on September 3rd, at 9:46 Eastern, to phone number 208-494-6656. Just saying."

Yeah sure. But - one thing. If we allow that this cop is guilty for instructing and encouraging that criminal act, why hasn't Trump been arrested for telling his henchmen to ignore Congressional subpoenas?

 

[Keith&Co.]

But is it obstruction to effectively tell a person, 'Hey, stop openly admitting to a crime in public.'?

yes.
"Hey, that crime you committed? You should actively take steps to reduce the chance of being prosecuted for it. And, also, here are THE STEPS TO TAKE."

I mean, it might not be to go online, like in this forum, to say, "these people are admitting to crimes on the internet. This will have consequences.'

Or, on a heist movie appreciation forum, talk about crooks leaving internet evidence and what should be done.
Direct message to a person you know is a crime committer, with instructions about deleting real, not hypothetical evidence of the crime? That's obstruction.

Like if somedone on Mueller's staff told a Trump aide, "Gosh, i sure hope you shredded the transcript of that 8.75-minute phone call on September 3rd, at 9:46 Eastern, to phone number 208-494-6656. Just saying."

Yeah sure. But - one thing. If we allow that this cop is guilty for instructing and encouraging that criminal act, why hasn't Trump been arrested for telling his henchmen to ignore Congressional subpoenas?

'What he's clearly guilty of' and 'what the system is prepared to charge him with' are discrete matters.

But slso, prosecution tends to work uphill. Of the 700 arrested , they can use some of the lesser offenders' testimony to help convict the organizers.

 

[ideologyhunter]

Guy wearing a Trump hat in the grocery store this morning, with an additional patch sewn on the side. I maneuvered close enough to read it:
MY IDEA OF HELP FROM ABOVE IS A SNIPER ON THE ROOF.
Hiya, fellow citizen.

 

[Elixir]

Of the 700 arrested , they can use some of the lesser offenders' testimony to help convict the organizers.

In 2032, perhaps? By then, Texas will have elementary school textbooks lionizing the 1/6 heroes on the same scale as they elevated the bigots at the Alamo.

 

[SLD]

Of the 700 arrested , they can use some of the lesser offenders' testimony to help convict the organizers.

In 2032, perhaps? By then, Texas will have elementary school textbooks lionizing the 1/6 heroes on the same scale as they elevated the bigots at the Alamo.

As long as they teach both sides of the Holocaust arguments, the. That’s OK!

 

[Shadowy Man]

Of the 700 arrested , they can use some of the lesser offenders' testimony to help convict the organizers.

In 2032, perhaps? By then, Texas will have elementary school textbooks lionizing the 1/6 heroes on the same scale as they elevated the bigots at the Alamo.

As long as they teach both sides of the Holocaust arguments, the. That’s OK!

Do they teach about both sides of the Alamo?

 

[Angry Floof]

Of the 700 arrested , they can use some of the lesser offenders' testimony to help convict the organizers.

In 2032, perhaps? By then, Texas will have elementary school textbooks lionizing the 1/6 heroes on the same scale as they elevated the bigots at the Alamo.

As long as they teach both sides of the Holocaust arguments, the. That’s OK!

As long as math teachers teach both sides of whether 2+2 equals 4 or 5! As long as science teachers teach both chemistry and alchemy!

 

[ideologyhunter]

I want to see those spellers that accept 'hamberder' as a variant spelling. USA! USA!!

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

As long as they teach both sides of the Holocaust arguments, the. That’s OK!

Do they teach about both sides of the Alamo?

The Evils of The American Revolution