• Welcome to the new Internet Infidels Discussion Board, formerly Talk Freethought.

Melania Plagiarizes Michelle

https://www.google.com/search?q=mel...ib_oDOAhVI9x4KHUGNCtQQsQQIJA&biw=1024&bih=663

2. Another attempt to blame "the left" for Melania's mistake :rolleyes:

Seriously... they've blamed Hillary Clinton, President Obama, and now Michelle Obama!?! Because Melania Trump, or her speechwriter, decided to lift a couple of paragraphs almost word-for-word.

:consternation2:

So, you read that article, and what you got out of it was that it was attempting to "blame the left for Melania's mistake?" Really?! Does anyone even read anything on this board anymore, or is this some quixotic bizzaro-world where everyone tilts at windmills all day and criticizing right-wing talking points is criticizing the left, and criticizing the left is criticizing the Democrats...?

Lol, the gist of the article is that the Obamas should be ashamed because they 'allowed' a speech to be plagiarized at the RNC, apparently because the speech wasn't a beacon of liberal oratorical genius. Oh, and plagiarism isn't that bad because the speech wasn't saying very much. So Michelle Obama should thank Melania Trump for showing her how vapid her speech was by pawning off the words and phrasing as her own.

What apologist tripe.
 
So apparently Ivanka's husband hired two Bush speechwriters to write the speech for Melania. They sent what they wrote to Melania a month ago but never heard back. She, apparently, didn't like what they wrote so she wrote her own speech with the help of her friend, Meredith McIver.

Sent from my SM-G920T1 using Tapatalk
 
So apparently Ivanka's husband hired two Bush speechwriters to write the speech for Melania. They sent what they wrote to Melania a month ago but never heard back. She, apparently, didn't like what they wrote so she wrote her own speech with the help of her friend, Meredith McIver.

Sent from my SM-G920T1 using Tapatalk

More like with the help of her friends Ctrl-C and Ctrl-V
 
https://www.google.com/search?q=mel...ib_oDOAhVI9x4KHUGNCtQQsQQIJA&biw=1024&bih=663



:consternation2:

So, you read that article, and what you got out of it was that it was attempting to "blame the left for Melania's mistake?" Really?! Does anyone even read anything on this board anymore, or is this some quixotic bizzaro-world where everyone tilts at windmills all day and criticizing right-wing talking points is criticizing the left, and criticizing the left is criticizing the Democrats...?

Lol, the gist of the article is that the Obamas should be ashamed because they 'allowed' a speech to be plagiarized at the RNC, apparently because the speech wasn't a beacon of liberal oratorical genius. Oh, and plagiarism isn't that bad because the speech wasn't saying very much. So Michelle Obama should thank Melania Trump for showing her how vapid her speech was by pawning off the words and phrasing as her own.

What apologist tripe.
Wow. Sometimes I am astounded by the depths of partisanship. That anyone would interpret the article as an apologia for Trump is, quite frankly, absurd. It should give you pause to reflect that you could interpret it as such. The "gist" of the article is summed up by the following paragraph:

But what Melania Trump’s plagiarism demonstrates more than anything else is that political speeches are largely vapid and interchangeable. They’re so impersonal and without meaning that Melania could give Michelle’s speeches, and Michelle could give Melania’s, and hardly anyone would know the difference. The distance between the parties is not so great: they are united by their common clichés.
 
Last edited:
Lol, the gist of the article is that the Obamas should be ashamed because they 'allowed' a speech to be plagiarized at the RNC, apparently because the speech wasn't a beacon of liberal oratorical genius. Oh, and plagiarism isn't that bad because the speech wasn't saying very much. So Michelle Obama should thank Melania Trump for showing her how vapid her speech was by pawning off the words and phrasing as her own.

What apologist tripe.
Wow. Sometimes I am astounded by the depths of partisanship. That anyone would interpret the article as an apologia for Trump is, quite frankly, absurd. It should give you pause to reflect that you could interpret it as such. The "gist" of the article is summed up by the following paragraph:

But what Melania Trump’s plagiarism demonstrates more than anything else is that political speeches are largely vapid and interchangeable. They’re so impersonal and without meaning that Melania could give Michelle’s speeches, and Michelle could give Melania’s, and hardly anyone would know the difference. The distance between the parties is not so great: they are united by their common clichés.

Oh, I got that all right. Except for the fact that you're glossing over the vast majority of the article, which includes the explicit statement that the act of plagiarism "reflects somewhat poorly on Michelle Obama", that the Democrats should be "deeply humiliated" that any part of any speech of theirs could possibly be spoken at the RNC, that having done so is a "major failure on the part of Democrats". That victim-blaming mindset does nothing for me, especially since this speech is from 2008 and if the contents were so offensive to liberal ideals then they should have been brought up then. There's only one group that deserves any blame for this scandal and that is the plagiarists. The article's attempt to shift the blame to the Democrats is really nothing but an attempt to excuse the Trump campaign of their wrongdoing. And as innocent as a little cribbing might seem, plagiarism is a significant ethical violation. People have lost their careers over it, and those jobs weren't even Oval Office related.
 
Wow. Sometimes I am astounded by the depths of partisanship. That anyone would interpret the article as an apologia for Trump is, quite frankly, absurd. It should give you pause to reflect that you could interpret it as such. The "gist" of the article is summed up by the following paragraph:

But what Melania Trump’s plagiarism demonstrates more than anything else is that political speeches are largely vapid and interchangeable. They’re so impersonal and without meaning that Melania could give Michelle’s speeches, and Michelle could give Melania’s, and hardly anyone would know the difference. The distance between the parties is not so great: they are united by their common clichés.

Oh, I got that all right. Except for the fact that you're glossing over the vast majority of the article, which includes the explicit statement that the act of plagiarism "reflects somewhat poorly on Michelle Obama", that the Democrats should be "deeply humiliated" that any part of any speech of theirs could possibly be spoken at the RNC, that having done so is a "major failure on the part of Democrats". That victim-blaming mindset does nothing for me, especially since this speech is from 2008 and if the contents were so offensive to liberal ideals then they should have been brought up then. There's only one group that deserves any blame for this scandal and that is the plagiarists. The article's attempt to shift the blame to the Democrats is really nothing but an attempt to excuse the Trump campaign of their wrongdoing. And as innocent as a little cribbing might seem, plagiarism is a significant ethical violation. People have lost their careers over it, and those jobs weren't even Oval Office related.

Michelle stole Melania's speech and time traveled back to 2008 to give it.
 
Wow. Sometimes I am astounded by the depths of partisanship. That anyone would interpret the article as an apologia for Trump is, quite frankly, absurd. It should give you pause to reflect that you could interpret it as such. The "gist" of the article is summed up by the following paragraph:

But what Melania Trump’s plagiarism demonstrates more than anything else is that political speeches are largely vapid and interchangeable. They’re so impersonal and without meaning that Melania could give Michelle’s speeches, and Michelle could give Melania’s, and hardly anyone would know the difference. The distance between the parties is not so great: they are united by their common clichés.

Oh, I got that all right. Except for the fact that you're glossing over the vast majority of the article, which includes the explicit statement that the act of plagiarism "reflects somewhat poorly on Michelle Obama", that the Democrats should be "deeply humiliated" that any part of any speech of theirs could possibly be spoken at the RNC, that having done so is a "major failure on the part of Democrats". That victim-blaming mindset does nothing for me, especially since this speech is from 2008 and if the contents were so offensive to liberal ideals then they should have been brought up then. There's only one group that deserves any blame for this scandal and that is the plagiarists. The article's attempt to shift the blame to the Democrats is really nothing but an attempt to excuse the Trump campaign of their wrongdoing. And as innocent as a little cribbing might seem, plagiarism is a significant ethical violation. People have lost their careers over it, and those jobs weren't even Oval Office related.
The only one who is glossing over anything is you. The vast majority of the article was about how the Democrats have adopted the conservative language of “bootstrapping.” And that it is a "cruel joke" to tell the poor that they simply need to work harder to stop being poor.

You can rest assured that the left-wing of the Democratic party has been criticizing the Obama administration for a long time, and mainstream Democrats since the 90s. In any event, the article was NOT a defense of the Trumps, and has nothing to do with "shifting blame." That is an absurd interpretation that is only possible if you are blinded by partisanship. I mean, for fuck's sake, the author is
... a queer Arab-Canadian civil rights attorney practicing in Boston, Massachusetts. He currently works as a private attorney representing criminal defendants and low wage workers in cases against their employers. Oren is a member of the Mass NLG Board and a proud member in many community groups in Boston focusing on prison abolition, LGBTQ liberation, workers’ rights and tenants’ rights. He received his B.A. from Brandeis University and J.D. from Northeastern University School of Law.
https://www.nlg.org/oren-nimni

Yea. A gay, Canadian attorney of Arab descent who specializes in low-wage clients in cases against their employers who is a member of organizations that focus on workers and tenants rights - typical Trump supporter. :rolleyes:

And I hate to break it to you, but a "little cribbing" as you call it is only considered a "serious ethical violation" by people in academia. At best it amounts to an embarrassment to the typical person, but hardly a serious ethical violation. For fuck's sake. The contents of the speech were so hackneyed that it doesn't even seem far-fetched that it was all a coincidence. But the point is, who cares? This won't change anyone's opinion on either side. I'm glad the Clinton campaign has stayed far away from this. Pursuing this attack will not yield any votes, and risks alienating people.

- - - Updated - - -

This day just keeps getting better. :lol:

View attachment 7522

Lol. Well, at least he reads The American Conservative, which is one of the vestiges of the reasonable right left in America.
 
Wow. Sometimes I am astounded by the depths of partisanship. That anyone would interpret the article as an apologia for Trump is, quite frankly, absurd. It should give you pause to reflect that you could interpret it as such. The "gist" of the article is summed up by the following paragraph:

But what Melania Trump’s plagiarism demonstrates more than anything else is that political speeches are largely vapid and interchangeable. They’re so impersonal and without meaning that Melania could give Michelle’s speeches, and Michelle could give Melania’s, and hardly anyone would know the difference. The distance between the parties is not so great: they are united by their common clichés.

Oh, I got that all right. Except for the fact that you're glossing over the vast majority of the article, which includes the explicit statement that the act of plagiarism "reflects somewhat poorly on Michelle Obama", that the Democrats should be "deeply humiliated" that any part of any speech of theirs could possibly be spoken at the RNC, that having done so is a "major failure on the part of Democrats". That victim-blaming mindset does nothing for me, especially since this speech is from 2008 and if the contents were so offensive to liberal ideals then they should have been brought up then. There's only one group that deserves any blame for this scandal and that is the plagiarists. The article's attempt to shift the blame to the Democrats is really nothing but an attempt to excuse the Trump campaign of their wrongdoing. And as innocent as a little cribbing might seem, plagiarism is a significant ethical violation. People have lost their careers over it, and those jobs weren't even Oval Office related.
The only one who is glossing over anything is you. The vast majority of the article was about how the Democrats have adopted the conservative language of “bootstrapping.” And that it is a "cruel joke" to tell the poor that they simply need to work harder to stop being poor.

You can rest assured that the left-wing of the Democratic party has been criticizing the Obama administration for a long time, and mainstream Democrats since the 90s. In any event, the article was NOT a defense of the Trumps, and has nothing to do with "shifting blame." That is an absurd interpretation that is only possible if you are blinded by partisanship. I mean, for fuck's sake, the author is
... a queer Arab-Canadian civil rights attorney practicing in Boston, Massachusetts. He currently works as a private attorney representing criminal defendants and low wage workers in cases against their employers. Oren is a member of the Mass NLG Board and a proud member in many community groups in Boston focusing on prison abolition, LGBTQ liberation, workers’ rights and tenants’ rights. He received his B.A. from Brandeis University and J.D. from Northeastern University School of Law.
https://www.nlg.org/oren-nimni

Yea. A gay, Canadian attorney of Arab descent who specializes in low-wage clients in cases against their employers who is a member of organizations that focus on workers and tenants rights - typical Trump supporter. :rolleyes:

And I hate to break it to you, but a "little cribbing" as you call it is only considered a "serious ethical violation" by people in academia. At best it amounts to an embarrassment to the typical person, but hardly a serious ethical violation. For fuck's sake. The contents of the speech were so hackneyed that it doesn't even seem far-fetched that it was all a coincidence. But the point is, who cares? This won't change anyone's opinion on either side. I'm glad the Clinton campaign has stayed far away from this. Pursuing this attack will not yield any votes, and risks alienating people.

Oh, I get it now.

Michelle Obama was supposed to give un utterly divisive, hard-core left wing radical speech so devoid of common ground with other Americans that there would have been nothing a woman like Melania Trump would have found worthy of repeating, much less emulating. That or else present a speech so magnificently stirring that no one who heard it would have forgotten a single passage.

Yeah, that's totally Michelle Obama's fault for being so moderate. Especially considering the enthusiastic applause this got her: "For the first time in my adult life, I am really proud of my country, because it feels like hope is finally making a comeback".
 
They passed her speech through one of those essay checking programs they use at universities and they found a one in a trillion chance it wasn't plagiarized. That's enough for an F.
 
Given: How common political speeches are, how they have small clusters of people picked to write them, how popular certain punchlines are among particular audiences, etc. I would suspect that speechwriting plagiarism would actually be a fairly common phenomenon, just something that we do not usually notice ourselves. I do not think we should expect speechwriters to come up with their own original lines for every line of a speech either, but that copying and plagiarizing the speeches of others is just going to be part of the norm, by people from every political party, and likely has been for the bulk of history. So there are probably plenty of Democrats (along with their speechwriters) who have done the same thing, and just never been caught on it.

It is not something that should be encouraged by any means, but just something we should recognize as being part of the norm. I do not think these particular instances with Melania's word-for-word speech copying were severe enough that her speechwriter deserves firing, either. It seems pretty clear that some plagiarism did occur, but it was nothing out of the ordinary when it comes to political speechwriting. They were somewhat generic lines that worked well with a crowd, and so we should expect others to use them again at other times, even with different speechwriters, different politicians, and different crowds. Not a big deal.

Brian
 
Lol, the gist of the article is that the Obamas should be ashamed because they 'allowed' a speech to be plagiarized at the RNC, apparently because the speech wasn't a beacon of liberal oratorical genius. Oh, and plagiarism isn't that bad because the speech wasn't saying very much. So Michelle Obama should thank Melania Trump for showing her how vapid her speech was by pawning off the words and phrasing as her own.

What apologist tripe.
Wow. Sometimes I am astounded by the depths of partisanship. That anyone would interpret the article as an apologia for Trump is, quite frankly, absurd. It should give you pause to reflect that you could interpret it as such. The "gist" of the article is summed up by the following paragraph:

But what Melania Trump’s plagiarism demonstrates more than anything else is that political speeches are largely vapid and interchangeable. They’re so impersonal and without meaning that Melania could give Michelle’s speeches, and Michelle could give Melania’s, and hardly anyone would know the difference. The distance between the parties is not so great: they are united by their common clichés.
What you consider the gist of the article simply shows how wrong and partisan it is. Melania's plagiarism was detected immediately BECAUSE Michelle's words/values/experiences were not interchangeable with Melania's.

Moreover, the article you chose to represent your thoughts on Melania's plagiarism name drops both Michelle Obama and President Obama... it holds them responsible for Melania's actions. That's what is partisan hackery around here.

Sent from my SM-G920T1 using Tapatalk
 
Oh well gee... JP got us good. Since the article was written by a gay Canadian Arab, it couldn't possibly be WRONG :rolleyes:


Sent from my SM-G920T1 using Tapatalk
 
I was curious how conservatives, both the more media-prominent ones as well as the more everyday standard ones, would react to this matter and even try to somehow blame it on liberals, like they do for most things. Lo and behold, I went to a right-wing forum and saw several of them condemning the media over all this. They pointed out how one network showed video clips of both speeches given, to see the similarities and the plagiarism between them, and these right-wingers then attributed the appearance of plagiarism to a fancy video editing technique. Wow.....DENIAL to a massive degree. They also ranted about how liberals have their panties in a wad about this whole matter.

Can you imagine them saying something like that if it was a left-winger who was similarly caught plagiarizing? Simply amazing the depths their biases go to, and how the human mind works (or fails to).

Brian

I'm just surprised that they didn't all blame Michelle Obama directly. Note that I said *all*

How many levels of pure fuckery are there in this one case?

First, there's the obvious plagiarism.

But then, there's the fact that the woman that she plagiarized was the exact woman that they openly demonized for the past decade.

And then, there's the part where Michelle was discussing her relationship with President Obama on a personal level, which apparently apparently Melania does *not* have words to talk about with Trump (to be fair, English is not her first language, so that could easily be the problem she ran into).

And beyond even that, there's the part where Michelle was discussing how their relationship was so similar to a shared, American experience, while Donald rose to political prominence strictly by denying the the president was an American at all by using a particularly asinine conspiracy theory.

And let's not forget that we have the campaign of a white supremacist, outright stealing the work of a black woman in order to boost his own credibility.

And finally, there's the sheer incompetence of it all, from a man who is asking us to believe that he should be the head of the US government.

All of the flaws that have been obvious in Trump right from the start, all neatly packaged in a few simple lines delivered from his third wife. But don't worry, he'll "never let you down." Unlike wives # 1 and 2.
 
I was curious how conservatives, both the more media-prominent ones as well as the more everyday standard ones, would react to this matter and even try to somehow blame it on liberals, like they do for most things. Lo and behold, I went to a right-wing forum and saw several of them condemning the media over all this. They pointed out how one network showed video clips of both speeches given, to see the similarities and the plagiarism between them, and these right-wingers then attributed the appearance of plagiarism to a fancy video editing technique. Wow.....DENIAL to a massive degree. They also ranted about how liberals have their panties in a wad about this whole matter.

Can you imagine them saying something like that if it was a left-winger who was similarly caught plagiarizing? Simply amazing the depths their biases go to, and how the human mind works (or fails to).

Brian

I'm just surprised that they didn't all blame Michelle Obama directly.

I'm just about done being surprised with the right wing in general.


Last night, Chris Christie staged a show trial for Hillary Clinton, and while Melania may have been guilty of reading words that her speechwriters lifted from Michelle Obama, Christie is borrowing from a playbook that was written in Germany awhile back. Obviously the Governor is aiming for a position in President Trump's cabinet, but I'm pretty sure there's no "Reich Minister of Propaganda" post available.
 
I can't believe that in the trainwreck that is the 2016 RNC Convention this is what we're focusing on.

It's stupid.
 
I can't believe that in the trainwreck that is the 2016 RNC Convention this is what we're focusing on.

It's stupid.
Link and link. That is what we should be getting from Melania's speech. It wasn't plagiarizing the speech, it was making up a history for the Trumps that never ever existed.

This shit is calculated and Manafort is pulling people's strings. I'm starting to get worried about November, Manafort is developing a "Cry Wolf" fallacy right now. Create tiny little BS things, and create a narrative that all of the criticism is just the same sort of political BS.
 
Back
Top Bottom