Officers Who Shot 12-Year-Old Holding Toy Gun Refused To Give Him First Aid

[Sarpedon]

When I was a kid we made our own toy guns out of wood. We'd compare them like we did bikes of knives. I guess we all deserved to be shot.

Bikes of knives? That sounds really dangerous! They should have shot you.

 

[Sabine Grant]

When I was a kid we made our own toy guns out of wood. We'd compare them like we did bikes of knives. I guess we all deserved to be shot.

The other problem and perhaps the bigger problem is that these cops are so unfamiliar with the people they're supposed to protect and serve, which makes killing them a lot easier, even if unintentionally. It's a training and culture problem at its heart and it gets people killed.

Exactly. The "it is us against them" remains the predominant issue. And yes, too many of those LEOs have not worked hard enough to build a bridge with the local minority populations. A cop whose uniform symbolizes a "Big Brother" participation, helping the local youth stay out of trouble by motivating them and by his own example is going to be TRUSTED. A cop whose uniform evokes a series of repressive and oppressive measures will not be trusted. Training is absolutely necessary. My good friend who is a cop in Mississippi ( members who date from IIDB will remember the poster Ronin) is actively involved in humanitarian actions with all the local population. Not just that but he is currently promoting and motivating more training for LEOs. There are some very good fruit on the tree of Law Enforcement. They have identified the source of racial tensions between the police force and local ethnic minority groups. They know it must start with the police force earning trust.

 

[Sarpedon]

Say "Hi" to Ronin!

 

[Loren Pechtel]

No. I want the parents to not let their kids play with realistic replicas in the first place.

So you want to outlaw "cops and robbers" and all the other childhood games kids play.

The fact is, children play "cops and robbers" and "war games" and hunting games and other reenactment of adult violence, And for as long as people have made toys, there have been realistic replicas of weapons made as toys for those children. Haven't you ever seen "A Christmas Story"? So whether you or I are enthralled with the idea of children playing with toy guns, it is a fact of life.

So which do you prefer:

1. More dead children
2. Outlaw toy guns
3. Train police to be better at threat assessment & response

I didn't say "toy guns". I said "realistic replicas". I have no problem with toy guns that people will realize are toys.

 

[Malintent]

So which do you prefer:

1. More dead children
2. Outlaw toy guns
3. Train police to be better at threat assessment & response

All three. 1) There are too many live children as it is.. .we need more dead ones. 2) toy guns are stupid. How about toy rape kits instead? 3) never anything wrong with more training.

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

I see a marketing opportunity, real guns that look very fake.

I also see a real need for police that aren't unintelligent steroid freaks.

 

[ksen]

Let me know when they start making gunblades for real.

 

[Toni]

So you want to outlaw "cops and robbers" and all the other childhood games kids play.

The fact is, children play "cops and robbers" and "war games" and hunting games and other reenactment of adult violence, And for as long as people have made toys, there have been realistic replicas of weapons made as toys for those children. Haven't you ever seen "A Christmas Story"? So whether you or I are enthralled with the idea of children playing with toy guns, it is a fact of life.

So which do you prefer:

1. More dead children
2. Outlaw toy guns
3. Train police to be better at threat assessment & response

I didn't say "toy guns". I said "realistic replicas". I have no problem with toy guns that people will realize are toys.

Wh

Why aren't you calling for more and better training for police? Frankly, there is a serious problem in the U.S. with unarmed people being shot by police officers, often for no reason other than poor training/panic on the part of the heavily armed police officers.

How are law enforcement armed and trained in other countries?

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

When I was a kid we made our own toy guns out of wood. We'd compare them like we did bikes of knives. I guess we all deserved to be shot.

The other problem and perhaps the bigger problem is that these cops are so unfamiliar with the people they're supposed to protect and serve, which makes killing them a lot easier, even if unintentionally. It's a training and culture problem at its heart and it gets people killed.

Exactly. The "it is us against them" remains the predominant issue. And yes, too many of those LEOs have not worked hard enough to build a bridge with the local minority populations. A cop whose uniform symbolizes a "Big Brother" participation, helping the local youth stay out of trouble by motivating them and by his own example is going to be TRUSTED. A cop whose uniform evokes a series of repressive and oppressive measures will not be trusted. Training is absolutely necessary. My good friend who is a cop in Mississippi ( members who date from IIDB will remember the poster Ronin) is actively involved in humanitarian actions with all the local population. Not just that but he is currently promoting and motivating more training for LEOs. There are some very good fruit on the tree of Law Enforcement. They have identified the source of racial tensions between the police force and local ethnic minority groups. They know it must start with the police force earning trust.

This is so true it can never be overstated. Most police forces are too busy carrying out a war on drugs to get to know the people and the neighborhoods. I once advocated that officers should spend at least some of their time going door to door and leaving a type of calling card if the residents or business owners aren't there. But I think the perception on the force was that if they do this they will make more work for themselves because people will be inclined to contact them more often.

 

[dx713]

Exactly. The "it is us against them" remains the predominant issue. And yes, too many of those LEOs have not worked hard enough to build a bridge with the local minority populations. A cop whose uniform symbolizes a "Big Brother" participation, helping the local youth stay out of trouble by motivating them and by his own example is going to be TRUSTED. A cop whose uniform evokes a series of repressive and oppressive measures will not be trusted. Training is absolutely necessary. My good friend who is a cop in Mississippi ( members who date from IIDB will remember the poster Ronin) is actively involved in humanitarian actions with all the local population. Not just that but he is currently promoting and motivating more training for LEOs. There are some very good fruit on the tree of Law Enforcement. They have identified the source of racial tensions between the police force and local ethnic minority groups. They know it must start with the police force earning trust.

This is so true it can never be overstated. Most police forces are too busy carrying out a war on drugs to get to know the people and the neighborhoods. I once advocated that officers should spend at least some of their time going door to door and leaving a type of calling card if the residents or business owners aren't there. But I think the perception on the force was that if they do this they will make more work for themselves because people will be inclined to contact them more often.

Also, it's going to cost money.
You need more headcount to have unmounted police walking around in "problem" area than you need to assemble a team and do a hit and run intervention to arrest someone before leaving the area back to lawlessness once in a while. Not to mention the training necessary, as that proximity police is going to run into problems before it is accepted, now that all police are by default tagged "enemy" in those parts.
You're going to have to justify to your voters and sponsors that you spend money on account of those "trouble makers" who are already siphoning it by being "welfare queens".

(Note that I'm not attacking the US here. That's a general trend in the western world, or at least we have the same around here, just with less guns around)

 

[Jason Harvestdancer]

Exactly. The "it is us against them" remains the predominant issue. And yes, too many of those LEOs have not worked hard enough to build a bridge with the local minority populations. A cop whose uniform symbolizes a "Big Brother" participation, helping the local youth stay out of trouble by motivating them and by his own example is going to be TRUSTED. A cop whose uniform evokes a series of repressive and oppressive measures will not be trusted. Training is absolutely necessary. My good friend who is a cop in Mississippi ( members who date from IIDB will remember the poster Ronin) is actively involved in humanitarian actions with all the local population. Not just that but he is currently promoting and motivating more training for LEOs. There are some very good fruit on the tree of Law Enforcement. They have identified the source of racial tensions between the police force and local ethnic minority groups. They know it must start with the police force earning trust.

This is so true it can never be overstated. Most police forces are too busy carrying out a war on drugs to get to know the people and the neighborhoods. I once advocated that officers should spend at least some of their time going door to door and leaving a type of calling card if the residents or business owners aren't there. But I think the perception on the force was that if they do this they will make more work for themselves because people will be inclined to contact them more often.

The War on Drugs. It is the Herpes of our political system. When you see a problem, often you'll find it has its roots with that infection.

 

[Shadowy Man]

He doesn't want to outlaw it, he just wants parents to stop complaining when their kids get killed by police for playing it.

No. I want the parents to not let their kids play with realistic replicas in the first place.

Man arrested after pointing banana at police

The deputies said they feared for their lives even though they saw that the object was yellow. Bunch wrote in the affidavit that he has seen handguns in many shapes and colors.

 

[RavenSky]

So you want to outlaw "cops and robbers" and all the other childhood games kids play.

The fact is, children play "cops and robbers" and "war games" and hunting games and other reenactment of adult violence, And for as long as people have made toys, there have been realistic replicas of weapons made as toys for those children. Haven't you ever seen "A Christmas Story"? So whether you or I are enthralled with the idea of children playing with toy guns, it is a fact of life.

So which do you prefer:

1. More dead children
2. Outlaw toy guns
3. Train police to be better at threat assessment & response

I didn't say "toy guns". I said "realistic replicas". I have no problem with toy guns that people will realize are toys.

You are evading my actual question

Which do you prefer:

1. More dead children
2. Outlaw "realistic replicas"
3. Train police to be better at threat assessment & response

 

[RavenSky]

No. I want the parents to not let their kids play with realistic replicas in the first place.

Man arrested after pointing banana at police

The deputies said they feared for their lives even though they saw that the object was yellow. Bunch wrote in the affidavit that he has seen handguns in many shapes and colors.

Well don't you know that the banana was a realistic replica of a gun that was a realistic replica of a banana?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I didn't say "toy guns". I said "realistic replicas". I have no problem with toy guns that people will realize are toys.

Wh

Why aren't you calling for more and better training for police? Frankly, there is a serious problem in the U.S. with unarmed people being shot by police officers, often for no reason other than poor training/panic on the part of the heavily armed police officers.

How are law enforcement armed and trained in other countries?

Because I'm not at all sure this is something that can be handled by training.

You can't simply say "don't shoot 12 year olds" because sometimes that 12 year old really does mean to shoot the cop.

I believe that outside a controlled situation people should handle realistic replica weapons as if they were real.

The basic difference I see in our approaches is that you want to address every issue by means of the state, not by means of personal responsibility. I want the order the other way around--the default approach is personal responsibility, the state steps in in the cases where this is not enough.

 

[ksen]

Because I'm not at all sure this is something that can be handled by training.

I'm sure not running your patrol car right up on the suspect so your rookie partner has to dive for cover because you've put him right in potential harm's way and so you don't have time to properly react is something that could be handled by training.

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Tamir Rice was buried today.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Wh

Why aren't you calling for more and better training for police? Frankly, there is a serious problem in the U.S. with unarmed people being shot by police officers, often for no reason other than poor training/panic on the part of the heavily armed police officers.

How are law enforcement armed and trained in other countries?

Because I'm not at all sure this is something that can be handled by training.

You can't simply say "don't shoot 12 year olds" because sometimes that 12 year old really does mean to shoot the cop.

I believe that outside a controlled situation people should handle realistic replica weapons as if they were real.

The basic difference I see in our approaches is that you want to address every issue by means of the state, not by means of personal responsibility. I want the order the other way around--the default approach is personal responsibility, the state steps in in the cases where this is not enough.

12 year olds are typically not tried as adults... and you want to discuss personal responsibility?

 

[AthenaAwakened]

Wh

Why aren't you calling for more and better training for police? Frankly, there is a serious problem in the U.S. with unarmed people being shot by police officers, often for no reason other than poor training/panic on the part of the heavily armed police officers.

How are law enforcement armed and trained in other countries?

Because I'm not at all sure this is something that can be handled by training.

But you are sure that parents can totally control the actions of theire kids 24/7

You can't simply say "don't shoot 12 year olds" because sometimes that 12 year old really does mean to shoot the cop.

I believe that outside a controlled situation people should handle realistic replica weapons as if they were real.

The basic difference I see in our approaches is that you want to address every issue by means of the state, not by means of personal responsibility. I want the order the other way around--the default approach is personal responsibility, the state steps in in the cases where this is not enough.

 

[ksen]

Another thing that could be handled by training is having the 911 operator convey all the information to the responding officers and not withholding something vital like . . . oh, that the caller said it's probably a toy gun.