Republicans, I hope you like rape.

[Jarhyn]

Why did you post an AI image?

Maybe his girlfriend is just from Canada.

 

[Colonel Sanders]

Why did you post an AI image?

Maybe his girlfriend is just from Canada.

I heard they met at summer camp.

 

[Tigers!]

I really wonder if all those people who 50-60 years ago pushed for the liberalisation of porn laws saying it does no harm to anyone else, how could it hurt others etc. ever look back and realise how stupid they were?

What do you think is the harm?

Earlier in the thread you will talking to theBeave about AI images and ethics.
The desensitisation that occurs amongst those who view porn i.e. what was acceptable a few years ago is not longer enough.
The fact that is just gets worse and worse i.e. child porn, strangulation scenes etc.
Gives too many men an unrealistic view on sex, performance and consent etc. Dealing with the real messy world does not meet the world of porn.
Bandwidth wasted
Makes a few very depraved individuals very rich.

Stay out of peoples' bedrooms.

Except the rapists, paedophiles are already in other people's homes. And they are getting encouragement online.

 

[GenesisNemesis]

I really wonder if all those people who 50-60 years ago pushed for the liberalisation of porn laws saying it does no harm to anyone else, how could it hurt others etc. ever look back and realise how stupid they were?

What do you think is the harm?

Earlier in the thread you will talking to theBeave about AI images and ethics.
The desensitisation that occurs amongst those who view porn i.e. what was acceptable a few years ago is not longer enough.
The fact that is just gets worse and worse i.e. child porn, strangulation scenes etc.
Gives too many men an unrealistic view on sex, performance and consent etc. Dealing with the real messy world does not meet the world of porn.
Bandwidth wasted
Makes a few very depraved individuals very rich.

Stay out of peoples' bedrooms.

Except the rapists, paedophiles are already in other people's homes. And they are getting encouragement online.

Lots of those in Churches.

 

[Toni]

And you think they won't track you back through that?

Look at the NPD data breach. Information is valuable, people will collect it. And it's nowhere near as secure as it should be.

If they could, they already would.

The fact is, if I did something truly illegal, it would take more time and care to remain uncaught than I am willing to expend. This isn't the reason I don't do illegal shit, but it's a damn good reason.

Kids don't have anywhere near the sophistication to learn all that before they sneak onto their parents computer to get on Roblox with some random pedo.

I'm not talking about the effect it would have on kids. It would certainly keep the younger ones off. I'm talking about what it would do to adults. Look at what we have been seeing--AGs in abortion-ban states attempting to get information on women who went out of state to get an abortion.

They won't track you back through that any more than they already are. The real effect is that it gives a mandate to parents: treat the computer like the liquor cabinet.

You're naive.

Things have gotten "better" in terms of privacy with SDNS and HTTPS becoming more standard... But if you do something illegal today, wherever you do it (assuming you don't use proxies or a VPN, which still links back to your name/cc info and who will still release info with a warrant), your identity can and will be turned over to LEO.

Warrant? Why would a VPN provider who was based outside the US pay any attention to a US warrant? And what could they do, anyway? Any VPN provider who takes security seriously only tracks customer access to the system, not where the communications go once they have gotten past the gate. The only thing they can possibly track is ongoing access. (Tell us the customer who is currently accessing server XYZ)

My thought is just that there should be mandatory reporting up that same chain that results in restrictions on internet access, because children don't belong on the internet.

I'm not talking monitoring porn sites, or requiring something new to access porn.

If your access to the internet is authenticated then they can trace it. What are you going to do when they come for you? Project 2025 considers you worthy of the death penalty.

Hell, I've told this story here, I think, but here goes again: some time in my mid-early 30's, I was on Twitter, and one day someone starts chatting me up about some of my kink related interests, and I figured out pretty quick it was a minor from their apparent maturity and looking at their profile, and I NOPED the fuck away from them. Then a few years later, I ran into that same person, now in their 20's, at a party. They were talking (bragging?) about how they spent their entire teen years trolling for and blackmailing pedos. They didn't even know I was there or that I was someone they tried to pick up (yuck!). I just recognized the name they dropped to someone else they were talking to. I collected my husband and we left the party ASAP.

I seriously worry that person is going to become a child predator some day, or a groomer, if they aren't already.

I warn my friends whenever I become aware of there being 3 or fewer degrees of separation.

I love the internet, but I am SO glad that I didn't have unsupervised access to it before I was 16, and I really think we should cover such topics in modern H&HD classes.

Why do you think they would be a pedo or a groomer? Sounds like they just had fun with the blackmail aspect.

Who is more naive or vulnerable than tweens or teens? I’m sure it happens to boys as well but lots of young girls—you’d be surprised and horrified to know how young—are convinced by some boy or another to send them pix that they would not want their parents to know about. And of course the photos get shared around school, making life hell for the unfortunate girl ( or maybe boy). And of course much, much worse if the ‘boy’ wasn’t someone they knew but some rando who likes kiddie porn.

 

[Toni]

Saying this is admittedly skeevy and creepy and will probably get me crucifed here, but now that AI generated images and videos have gotten pretty darn realistic (and will only get better) maybe we ought to consider allowing AI generated child porn to those with such tendencies. No real kids would be involved in the images, and if the pedophiles can get their sexual gratification from these images and not real life photos (or kids themselves!) then society is better off, no?

I'd have to think about that. I'd like to see a scientific test of that but I don't see how it could be done in an ethical manner.

My guess is some pedos already are doing it.

Are AI generated child porn images illegal?

Yeah, scientific tests would be in order for sure before embarking on something like that. If the child porn given during the tests is AI, the child does not exist in real life. So, no harm in that respect regarding ethics. I assume the test subject (a volunteer) would be OK with it.

I think the big problem is much of the public couldn't get past the disturbing nature of it, and would ignore the (possible) greater good.

Good question about the AI images being illegal. We are in some untested waters here I think.

I don’t know that there would be no harm IRL. That is just assuming that the ‘child’ is an AI altered image of a consenting but very young looking adult, the AI making them look even younger.

My concerns are that creating (fake) kiddie porn would increase the demand for such content. As with illicit drugs, there are always those who will want or ‘need’ to push the envelope and get the ‘really forbidden’ stuff that might end up involving actual minors. Ultimately , users could believe or claim to believe that the content they are viewing is just AI and not real —even if they were fairly certain it was a real child being used.

Does viewing child porn increase the desire for more child porn? Inspire individuals to go beyond the boundaries of online AI generated fantasy and take their desires into real life? I honestly do not know —so please forgive me if I’m making ignorant assumptions. I do know that porn has inspired an entire generation or two to believe that female pubic hair is bad and must be eliminated in order to be appealing to males. And has also done a lot to convince males and females that women don’t really like sex and that sex hurts for women which is too bad but whatchagonnado? Or that things that cause pain ( for the female) are just her problem if she doesn’t like it. Sadly, kids who are too young to know better do engage in sexual activities because they think they are supposed to. I’m certain that this can also be applied to boys, but I’m more familiar with the consequences for girls.

 

[ZiprHead]

I really wonder if all those people who 50-60 years ago pushed for the liberalisation of porn laws saying it does no harm to anyone else, how could it hurt others etc. ever look back and realise how stupid they were?

What do you think is the harm?

Earlier in the thread you will talking to theBeave about AI images and ethics.

About scientific research about child porn and the ethics doing that research. Strange you didn't mention that part.

The desensitisation that occurs amongst those who view porn i.e. what was acceptable a few years ago is not longer enough.
The fact that is just gets worse and worse i.e. child porn, strangulation scenes etc.
Gives too many men an unrealistic view on sex, performance and consent etc.

Too many? Is there an ideal number less than too many? Do you not know or understand how women and children were treated in the past???

Dealing with the real messy world does not meet the world of porn.
Bandwidth wasted
Makes a few very depraved individuals very rich.

 

[Tigers!]

I really wonder if all those people who 50-60 years ago pushed for the liberalisation of porn laws saying it does no harm to anyone else, how could it hurt others etc. ever look back and realise how stupid they were?

What do you think is the harm?

Earlier in the thread you will talking to theBeave about AI images and ethics.

About scientific research about child porn and the ethics doing that research. Strange you didn't mention that part.

As was pointed out earlier how does one construct a control group i.e real children who somehow will not be hurt or affected? I didn't mentioned it as I assumed you would remember that it had been mentioned.

The desensitisation that occurs amongst those who view porn i.e. what was acceptable a few years ago is not longer enough.
The fact that is just gets worse and worse i.e. child porn, strangulation scenes etc.
Gives too many men an unrealistic view on sex, performance and consent etc.

Too many? Is there an ideal number less than too many? Do you not know or understand how women and children were treated in the past???

I do know and understand how women and children were treated in the past. That is why I want it to stop. Freely allowing porn and more types of it will not be the way to stop such treatment of women and children.

 

[Tigers!]

I really wonder if all those people who 50-60 years ago pushed for the liberalisation of porn laws saying it does no harm to anyone else, how could it hurt others etc. ever look back and realise how stupid they were?

What do you think is the harm?

Earlier in the thread you will talking to theBeave about AI images and ethics.
The desensitisation that occurs amongst those who view porn i.e. what was acceptable a few years ago is not longer enough.
The fact that is just gets worse and worse i.e. child porn, strangulation scenes etc.
Gives too many men an unrealistic view on sex, performance and consent etc. Dealing with the real messy world does not meet the world of porn.
Bandwidth wasted
Makes a few very depraved individuals very rich.

Stay out of peoples' bedrooms.

Except the rapists, paedophiles are already in other people's homes. And they are getting encouragement online.

Lots of those in Churches.

Sadly yes they are.

 

[ZiprHead]

I really wonder if all those people who 50-60 years ago pushed for the liberalisation of porn laws saying it does no harm to anyone else, how could it hurt others etc. ever look back and realise how stupid they were?

What do you think is the harm?

Earlier in the thread you will talking to theBeave about AI images and ethics.

About scientific research about child porn and the ethics doing that research. Strange you didn't mention that part.

As was pointed out earlier how does one construct a control group i.e real children who somehow will not be hurt or affected? I didn't mentioned it as I assumed you would remember that it had been mentioned.

Of course I remembered it because I'm the one that said it. But you leaving out the scientific angle changed the context.

The desensitisation that occurs amongst those who view porn i.e. what was acceptable a few years ago is not longer enough.
The fact that is just gets worse and worse i.e. child porn, strangulation scenes etc.
Gives too many men an unrealistic view on sex, performance and consent etc.

Too many? Is there an ideal number less than too many? Do you not know or understand how women and children were treated in the past???

I do know and understand how women and children were treated in the past. That is why I want it to stop. Freely allowing porn and more types of it will not be the way to stop such treatment of women and children.

How do you know this?

 

[Elixir]

I do know and understand how women and children were treated in the past. That is why I want it to stop. Freely allowing porn and more types of it will not be the way to stop such treatment of women and children.

How do you know this?

Because criminalizing it has worked so well in the past.
And now, because printed porn is passé, it's really easy to get rid of it.
/s

 

[Ford]

 

[Toni]

Violent and/or degrading pornography seems to have a measurable affect on the behavior of teenagers: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6751001/

 

[Tigers!]

I really wonder if all those people who 50-60 years ago pushed for the liberalisation of porn laws saying it does no harm to anyone else, how could it hurt others etc. ever look back and realise how stupid they were?

What do you think is the harm?

Earlier in the thread you will talking to theBeave about AI images and ethics.

About scientific research about child porn and the ethics doing that research. Strange you didn't mention that part.

As was pointed out earlier how does one construct a control group i.e real children who somehow will not be hurt or affected? I didn't mentioned it as I assumed you would remember that it had been mentioned.

Of course I remembered it because I'm the one that said it. But you leaving out the scientific angle changed the context.

The desensitisation that occurs amongst those who view porn i.e. what was acceptable a few years ago is not longer enough.
The fact that is just gets worse and worse i.e. child porn, strangulation scenes etc.
Gives too many men an unrealistic view on sex, performance and consent etc.

Too many? Is there an ideal number less than too many? Do you not know or understand how women and children were treated in the past???

I do know and understand how women and children were treated in the past. That is why I want it to stop. Freely allowing porn and more types of it will not be the way to stop such treatment of women and children.

How do you know this?

I really wonder if all those people who 50-60 years ago pushed for the liberalisation of porn laws saying it does no harm to anyone else, how could it hurt others etc. ever look back and realise how stupid they were?

What do you think is the harm?

Earlier in the thread you will talking to theBeave about AI images and ethics.

About scientific research about child porn and the ethics doing that research. Strange you didn't mention that part.

As was pointed out earlier how does one construct a control group i.e real children who somehow will not be hurt or affected? I didn't mentioned it as I assumed you would remember that it had been mentioned.

Of course I remembered it because I'm the one that said it. But you leaving out the scientific angle changed the context.

The desensitisation that occurs amongst those who view porn i.e. what was acceptable a few years ago is not longer enough.
The fact that is just gets worse and worse i.e. child porn, strangulation scenes etc.
Gives too many men an unrealistic view on sex, performance and consent etc.

Too many? Is there an ideal number less than too many? Do you not know or understand how women and children were treated in the past???

I do know and understand how women and children were treated in the past. That is why I want it to stop. Freely allowing porn and more types of it will not be the way to stop such treatment of women and children.

How do you know this?

What exactly is the "this" that I know?

 

[ZiprHead]

What exactly is the "this" that I know?

"Freely allowing porn and more types of it will not be the way to stop such treatment of women and children."

 

[Elixir]

"Freely allowing porn and more types of it will not be the way to stop such treatment of women and children."

You have to admit that “disallowing” (criminalizing) porn has been super effective in the past.
Oh wait - no it hasn’t.

 

[bilby]

"Freely allowing porn and more types of it will not be the way to stop such treatment of women and children."

You have to admit that “disallowing” (criminalizing) porn has been super effective in the past.
Oh wait - no it hasn’t.

Hey, it worked with alcohol.


Oh, wait...




...shit

 

[Jarhyn]

Why did you post an AI image?

Maybe his girlfriend is just from Canada.

I heard they met at summer camp.

Yeah, you wouldn't know her.

I really wonder if all those people who 50-60 years ago pushed for the liberalisation of porn laws saying it does no harm to anyone else, how could it hurt others etc. ever look back and realise how stupid they were?

What do you think is the harm?

Earlier in the thread you will talking to theBeave about AI images and ethics.
The desensitisation that occurs amongst those who view porn i.e. what was acceptable a few years ago is not longer enough.
The fact that is just gets worse and worse i.e. child porn, strangulation scenes etc.
Gives too many men an unrealistic view on sex, performance and consent etc. Dealing with the real messy world does not meet the world of porn.
Bandwidth wasted
Makes a few very depraved individuals very rich.

Stay out of peoples' bedrooms.

Except the rapists, paedophiles are already in other people's homes. And they are getting encouragement online.

So you know, all the online communities I know that host artistically sourced [dubious pornographic material] actively monitor their sites to prevent them from being used to support or network between child predators and other pedophiles.

They report that shit to the FBI. The user base on said sites tend to strongly support this.

The sites I'm aware of (e621 and IB) do not even allow content that depicts "essentially human" characters, though, either; it's impossible to mistake any character content there for content that originated from a camera.

Most people are mostly good most of the time, even the people who look at porn most people would consider to be "gross".

By going after people who post porn openly, you only drive it into the domain of those who would be less serious about doing it ethically.

And you think they won't track you back through that?

Look at the NPD data breach. Information is valuable, people will collect it. And it's nowhere near as secure as it should be.

If they could, they already would.

The fact is, if I did something truly illegal, it would take more time and care to remain uncaught than I am willing to expend. This isn't the reason I don't do illegal shit, but it's a damn good reason.

Kids don't have anywhere near the sophistication to learn all that before they sneak onto their parents computer to get on Roblox with some random pedo.

I'm not talking about the effect it would have on kids. It would certainly keep the younger ones off. I'm talking about what it would do to adults. Look at what we have been seeing--AGs in abortion-ban states attempting to get information on women who went out of state to get an abortion.

They won't track you back through that any more than they already are. The real effect is that it gives a mandate to parents: treat the computer like the liquor cabinet.

You're naive.

Things have gotten "better" in terms of privacy with SDNS and HTTPS becoming more standard... But if you do something illegal today, wherever you do it (assuming you don't use proxies or a VPN, which still links back to your name/cc info and who will still release info with a warrant), your identity can and will be turned over to LEO.

Warrant? Why would a VPN provider who was based outside the US pay any attention to a US warrant? And what could they do, anyway? Any VPN provider who takes security seriously only tracks customer access to the system, not where the communications go once they have gotten past the gate. The only thing they can possibly track is ongoing access. (Tell us the customer who is currently accessing server XYZ)

My thought is just that there should be mandatory reporting up that same chain that results in restrictions on internet access, because children don't belong on the internet.

I'm not talking monitoring porn sites, or requiring something new to access porn.

If your access to the internet is authenticated then they can trace it. What are you going to do when they come for you? Project 2025 considers you worthy of the death penalty.

Hell, I've told this story here, I think, but here goes again: some time in my mid-early 30's, I was on Twitter, and one day someone starts chatting me up about some of my kink related interests, and I figured out pretty quick it was a minor from their apparent maturity and looking at their profile, and I NOPED the fuck away from them. Then a few years later, I ran into that same person, now in their 20's, at a party. They were talking (bragging?) about how they spent their entire teen years trolling for and blackmailing pedos. They didn't even know I was there or that I was someone they tried to pick up (yuck!). I just recognized the name they dropped to someone else they were talking to. I collected my husband and we left the party ASAP.

I seriously worry that person is going to become a child predator some day, or a groomer, if they aren't already.

I warn my friends whenever I become aware of there being 3 or fewer degrees of separation.

I love the internet, but I am SO glad that I didn't have unsupervised access to it before I was 16, and I really think we should cover such topics in modern H&HD classes.

Why do you think they would be a pedo or a groomer? Sounds like they just had fun with the blackmail aspect.

Who is more naive or vulnerable than tweens or teens? I’m sure it happens to boys as well but lots of young girls—you’d be surprised and horrified to know how young—are convinced by some boy or another to send them pix that they would not want their parents to know about. And of course the photos get shared around school, making life hell for the unfortunate girl ( or maybe boy). And of course much, much worse if the ‘boy’ wasn’t someone they knew but some rando who likes kiddie porn.

Yeah, like... people on the internet be expected to be over a certain age and warned about exactly that explicitly in a classroom like Driver's Education before we say as a society "ok, internet time". Everyone should have their own ISP account, and they should be expected to keep it secure from kids.

The thing about kids getting onto the internet is that they need to be warned first about the dangers and pitfalls. It should be things like "genital pics on the internet are forever", "genital pics will end up on the Internet," and "the consequences of genital pics on the internet are cruel and insidious and often slow to manifest."

I would rather the internet itself be a child-free environment. I would rather VPNs check if the ISP account connecting to them is owned by a minor, and to block the IPs of VPNs which don't require an adult verified account from the entire country.

It should be entirely possible for an adult to access and use absolute anonymization services.

It should be extremely difficult for a child to access and use anonymization services services (or if they are able to, they should be "minor-marked" the same way a con badge is at a convention with adult areas.

 

[Henry-Finland]

When the U.S. auto industry faced difficulties, it was set to receive government financial support. At that time, Larry Flynt told the press that the porn industry was also in trouble and that the American porn industry needed government support as well.

Flynt further explained that free online porn was eating into profitability. So, one wonders what Larry's stance would have been on this proposed porn ban?

 

[Bronzeage]

Republican Platform, Project 2025 Co-Author Admits Pornography Ban Will Be Done 'From the Back Door'

Former Donald Trump staffer and Project 2025 co-author Russell Vought told undercover reporters last month that the Heritage Foundation-led initiative has entered its second, more secretive phase with different tactics, including banning pornography “from the back door” through age verification...

www.xbiz.com

They're planning to ban porn. Legalizing porn cut the rape rate by about 85%. If it was actually removed there's no reason to think that wouldn't be reversed.

I think this is a case of causation vs correlation.

Why? The same general thing has been found across many countries. Availability of sexual media correlates with a big drop in rapes.

We have three possible cases:

1) Porn lower rape.
2) Rape declines for unrelated reasons, causing availability of porn. Huh, this one makes no sense.
3) Something else causes both increased access to porn and lower rates of rape. What?!

It would help your hypothesis if you could specify the mechanism that connects rape and porn.