The Manhood Trap

[Toni]

Why in the hell should anyone advocate “decreasing female empowerment”??? And why should anyone who wants that not be held in contempt?

Female empowerment is great and without looking at any cost I have no problem with this on its own at all. No doubt if humans survive as a species, progressive female empowerment will evolve on its own and work out just fine. But make no mistake that there is and will be a cost to society in the short term.

The incel problem caused by female empowerment isn't just going to magically go away on its own by giving them some clean shirts to go on dates. Not in the short term. Sooner or later incels are going to cause some serious trouble. If history is any guide our leaders will probably just start another huge big and violent war to get rid of them. But with the modern weapons of today lets just hope we survive.

So if you like female empowerment and don't mind the tinderbox of violence surely to come... then I don't see any problem at all!

Or men could just grow the fuck up and start behaving like they are men and not spoiled 2 year olds jealous that mommy’s breasts are being used by new baby.

 

[WAB]

Curious about this Incel thing, which I've heard of but paid no attention to, I decided just now to visit an incel discussion forum. It was filled with more hateful insanity than I've seen anywhere else.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Curious about this Incel thing, which I've heard of but paid no attention to, I decided just now to visit an incel discussion forum. It was filled with more hateful insanity than I've seen anywhere else.

It is quite something else. You keep thinking we have come so far... and then you find out that we apparently haven't.

I didn't exactly hit it off with women too well myself. It wasn't fun, but it didn't create a rageful animosity towards women for me. Some of these people just have a very unhealthy understanding of the world and their place in it. Who were these people in the 50s? The spousal abusers?

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The only reason I can see for a human penis to evolve to scoop out other men’s ejaculate in order to ensure his sperm fertilizes the egg is in a gang bang situation. Which genuinely only makes sense if humans undergo a heat, which they do not.

Logic contradicts that supposition even if greater than a cursory knowledge of female anatomy and conception escape us.

No, logic does not contradict the supposition. You do not like what it says but that doesn't make it go away. You're playing shoot the messenger here. I am not the one who created the anatomy. I am not the one who recognized what the anatomy is built for. I'm not looking at this from an incel perspective, I'm looking at it in the context I learned it: my father was a cultural anthropologist. (For those who don't know the distinction: a physical anthropologist digs up bones and the like. A cultural anthropologist studies the interaction of the people.)

And it very much does make sense. Think of a hunter-gatherer tribe. The hunter returns with a kill, think there won't be some of offering sex for first choice of what bits they want? We see that in our closest relatives, why do you suppose it didn't apply to our past?

 

[Jarhyn]

The only reason I can see for a human penis to evolve to scoop out other men’s ejaculate in order to ensure his sperm fertilizes the egg is in a gang bang situation. Which genuinely only makes sense if humans undergo a heat, which they do not.

Logic contradicts that supposition even if greater than a cursory knowledge of female anatomy and conception escape us.

No, logic does not contradict the supposition. You do not like what it says but that doesn't make it go away. You're playing shoot the messenger here. I am not the one who created the anatomy. I am not the one who recognized what the anatomy is built for. I'm not looking at this from an incel perspective, I'm looking at it in the context I learned it: my father was a cultural anthropologist. (For those who don't know the distinction: a physical anthropologist digs up bones and the like. A cultural anthropologist studies the interaction of the people.)

And it very much does make sense. Think of a hunter-gatherer tribe. The hunter returns with a kill, think there won't be some of offering sex for first choice of what bits they want? We see that in our closest relatives, why do you suppose it didn't apply to our past?

I mean, the only context it makes sense to me is in the context of (since long ago), the gorilla that goes out to do gorilla things and then comes home to a gorilla that's been doing some stuff with a neighbor gorilla.

 

[RVonse]

Many appear to be on the autism spectrum. Messes you up in social interactions in general, of course it messes you up in the hardest of the social interactions. Doesn't make them repulsive. Once they get radicalized, though, they become very repulsive. And the failure to find someone can easily lead to depression which would make them unattractive even without radicalization. I think much of what is pointed out about being unattractive is actually the result of depression, not the root cause. They fail in real world social interactions, they retreat into a domain where ability counts for more than social skills.

Perhaps autism is part of it. But empowerment is much more likely considering a zero sum game. When you give one sex much more power it will surely be at some cost to someone else.

I do see the benefits of female empowerment. Its just the lack of people willing to admit there has been a cost, especially when their ideology is at stake. And you see this with both conservatives and liberals. For example, if an oil well needs to be exploited you will find a conservative anywhere who will justify its enormous environmental cost. But its no difference with the progressives. Progressives on this thread seem to have a great deal trouble even to acknowledge the incels let alone discuss a whole segment of the population greatly affected by what has happened with female empowerment.

 

[Toni]

The only reason I can see for a human penis to evolve to scoop out other men’s ejaculate in order to ensure his sperm fertilizes the egg is in a gang bang situation. Which genuinely only makes sense if humans undergo a heat, which they do not.

Logic contradicts that supposition even if greater than a cursory knowledge of female anatomy and conception escape us.

No, logic does not contradict the supposition. You do not like what it says but that doesn't make it go away. You're playing shoot the messenger here. I am not the one who created the anatomy. I am not the one who recognized what the anatomy is built for. I'm not looking at this from an incel perspective, I'm looking at it in the context I learned it: my father was a cultural anthropologist. (For those who don't know the distinction: a physical anthropologist digs up bones and the like. A cultural anthropologist studies the interaction of the people.)

And it very much does make sense. Think of a hunter-gatherer tribe. The hunter returns with a kill, think there won't be some of offering sex for first choice of what bits they want? We see that in our closest relatives, why do you suppose it didn't apply to our past?

Loren you do not understand female anatomy, fertility, conception or reproduction or human behavior very well or you would recognize the ignorant sexism of your theory.

Your ‘recognition’ of hunter gatherer societies are based on out dated and uninformed reality that over values Hunter and trivializes gatherer when the opposite is true: those who could gather food contributed the bulk of the calories and nutrition required for survival.

You are so caught up on some male centric sex is for male pleasure and to continue the male line world view you treat women as mere vessels designed to accept and carry out male prerogatives.

Women have always had as much free will as men, even when their actions were curtailed. Women have always had sexual desires beyond reproduction. After all, humans do not have an estrus cycle, yet have sex without the possibility of producing offspring. People have sex after menopause. People go to great lengths to control fertility for many reasons, including to help ensure survival of existing offspring.

The world has never worked the way you imagine, except in the imaginations of some very insecure men.

 

[southernhybrid]

Do most of you realize that in the past there have been matriarchal societies, where women were in charge? Most of them were far more peaceful compared to Patriarchal societies, and I'm pretty sure I read in book last year that one still exists somewhere in India The women in these societies often had more than one sex partner, but sadly, the brutish men took over and ruined what had been run pretty well by females.

Plus, women rarely are attracted to a man based on his looks. My current husband was a skinny, nerdy guy when we met, but he had a wonderful sense of humor and he was extremely generous and affectionate.That is why I agreed to date him. I wanted him for a friend, but after about 2 months, I fell in love with him and we've been together for well over 40 years. We can fight and scream at each other, but we never hold a grudge That's how a good relationship works.

I had a friend with benefits for awhile when I was between marriages. The guy wasn't attractive, but he treated me like a queen, was totally devoted to me and sex was all about my pleasure instead of just his. I broke up with him because he was falling in love with me and there were issues that made me realize a long term romantic relationships wouldn't work out. Some women may only want to date a very handsome man, but once we get to know someone, their looks tend to be unimportant while their qualities are what matters. Very few women marry only for money. A woman I know agreed with me that we wouldn't marry Trump for a billion dollars. I'd rather be poor then be have an asshole for a partner.

The primary reason that some man can't get dates is because of their behavior. In my city, I constantly see physically unattractive couples who seem very happy. They are often holding hands and smiling. My ex was an asshole. He wasn't bad looking, but he was emotionally abusive and a religious fanatic.

It sounds to me as if Rvonse is a fan of the late Kirk's sexist ideas. He wants women to be trad wives, have lots of kids and stay home. My mom was a working mom starting in the 50s when I was about 6 years old. I was proud of her. Like me, she often worked part time so she had time to do things for us and clean the house. My father went into sales and he was often home early in the afternoon. He did a lot of remodeling, building furniture and home maintenance. They always seemed happy together, despite him suffering from PTSD and bipolar disorder.

When I read the idiots who want women to stay home, and have kids, I wonder who is going to be nurses, teachers, housecleaners and other jobs that are female dominated. Very few men are equipped to handle that type of work. if a woman and her partner agree that she is happier not working, that's their business, but no woman should have fewer rights than men.

I just read this thread today and was shocked at a certain person's attitude regarding what he thinks about women having the same rights as men. My ex was a jerk but he still found 3 different women to marry him. The third one told my dil that all he cared about was his religion. The second one told me that he needed to become more caring and affectionate. I knew that would never happen but if a man like him could find 3 women who were all fairly attractive to marry him, I can't imagine how awful today's so called incels must be.

Let me add that my current husband loved my son as if he was the birth dad. He supported him with me, and we never asked for child support from the bio dad. We refer to my husband as the real dad.

 

[southernhybrid]

https://www.unearthwomen.com/5-matriarchal-societies-where-women-are-in-charge/

Who runs the world? Girls! In these matriarchal societies, these aren’t just women-empowering lyrics in a Beyoncé song but a fact of life. Matriarchal societies are those in which women hold positions of power and authority and are the primary decision-makers in both their families and community. While patriarchies have been the norm in most societies throughout history, the following five countries are home to matriarchal societies that show what the world would look like if it were indeed run by women.

1. INDIA’S KHASI TRIBE​

The state of Meghalaya in northeastern India is home to the Khasi tribe, which is known for its matriarchal society. In the Khasi culture, property and wealth are inherited through the female line, and women have a strong say in household and community decisions. Women are also free to choose their own partners, and divorce is not stigmatized.

The article describes 5 matriarchal societies, but if anyone I interested, there is all kinds of information online as well as books on the topic. I tend to agree that the commenter who said that the women should be in charge.

 

[Elixir]

Curious about this Incel thing, which I've heard of but paid no attention to, I decided just now to visit an incel discussion forum. It was filled with more hateful insanity than I've seen anywhere else.

One would, I assume, have to be filled a special kind of self-loathing to identify as "incel" in the first place. To find a "home" on the internet among the likewise afflicted is to embrace and cultivate the affliction, not to address it.

A great many incels (not all) are incels not because of female empowerment, but because women find them repulsive.

Women find them repulsive because they have elevated their own repulsiveness to a high personal value. It excuses so much!

I believe that if the majority of self-declared incels were hypnotized into believing they were bright, funny, interesting and confident, you could put them in any bar, concert or in whatever circumstance people use for meeting other people these days, they'd do just fine with "the ladies", even with a dirty shirt. (It makes them come across so genuine!)
OTOH, in their "icel" mental state, you could give them Robert Redford looks and within a minute or two those same females would be edging away telling each other "that guy creeps me out!".

If you don't want to be an "incel", maybe the trick is just be "cel" and be happy with it until magically, you're not "cel" any more because you weren't so uptight about it that you chased everyone away.
Just a guess of course...

 

[bilby]

Still waiting for @RVonse to explain this disempowering the wimmins thing, and how it would help incels get laid.

I am still waiting for a reason why anyone other than themselves should care a whit whether or not incels get laid.

 

[bilby]

Sooner or later incels are going to cause some serious trouble. If history is any guide our leaders will probably just start another huge big and violent war to get rid of them. But with the modern weapons of today lets just hope we survive.

Unless your claim is that Vladimir Putin is an incel, this seems like an astonishing leap of logic.

A handful of pimply losers without girlfriends are not an existential threat to humanity, and neither are they a casus belli.

 

[Toni]

Still waiting for @RVonse to explain this disempowering the wimmins thing, and how it would help incels get laid.

I am still waiting for a reason why anyone other than themselves should care a whit whether or not incels get laid.

To be honest, I want people to be happy. So long as their happiness is not dependent on or fueled by abuse and cruelty of others, including the environment. Indeed, the happiest people I know are those who help others and who are genuinely happy to see others thrive and be healthy and happy.

But some people have just got to get over themselves! And off the net and out of basements.

 

[TomC]

I don't really understand the concept of "incel" in the modern world I live in. I live in Southern Indiana, Trumpville Jesustan.

It's full of skanky chicks. Any guy with a joint and a ride can get all the pussy he wants.
Of course, if he wants true love forever he's gonna have to get up off the couch. Leave his game behind for awhile...
Tom

 

[bilby]

Many appear to be on the autism spectrum.

Don't blame this on autism. It has three-eighths of fuck all to do with autism.

 

[bilby]

Who were these people in the 50s? The spousal abusers?

I strongly suspect so.

 

[Elixir]

Still waiting for @RVonse to explain this disempowering the wimmins thing, and how it would help incels get laid.

I am still waiting for a reason why anyone other than themselves should care a whit whether or not incels get laid.

They become dangerous sometimes?
Maybe WAB will share the address of the “incel forum” and you can judge for yourself. I’m concerned if there are truly lots and lots of them. But I suspect they are disproportionately loud, as they are disproportionately whiney, and there aren’t so many of them.
AFAICS they like to talk about 20% of men being attractive to 80% of women, even though no normal man expects to get laid by 80% of women for no reason except that they fancy themself among the 20%.
If you are a male, and are attractive to a tiny fraction - say 0.1% of women - that means there are hundred of thousands or millions of women you could attract (pro tip: try one at a time!), just on the basis of superficial attraction. Unless you’re just simply an asshole and/or a creep, it’s just a matter of getting out there instead of commiserating and raging on some pity party “incel” forum.

 

[pood]

NEWS OF THE NEAR FUTURE

As Incel Rebellion Spread, Trump Acts

IIDB (Internet News Service) — Responding to an incel rebellion that has spread to cites across the nation, President Trump acted decisively on Friday, signing an executive ordering ordering all American women “back to the kitchen.”

“BACK TO THE KITCHEN, BABY!!!” the president wrote in an all-caps rant on Truth Social. “BAREFOOT AND PREGGERS!!! FROM NOW ON ALL YOU NASTY WOMEN WILL SERVICE YOUR MEN ON DEMAND AND FAITHFULLY PREPARE THEIR MORNING COVFEFE!!! AND, BITCHES, BUY THEM GROCERIES!!! WHAT A FUNNY WORD, GROCERIES!!! THEY ARE BAGS OF FOOD!!! HOW MANY PEOPLE KNEW THAT BESIDES YOURS TRULY???”

Administration officials said the president was moved to act by televised footage of hordes of snotty, smelly, unkempt, preternaturally entitled little white male shits who live in their mother’s basements doing stuff like overturning Muslim halal food carts while chanting, “We want sex! We want sex!”

“GRAB ‘EM BY THE PUSSY!” the president encouraged the pimply losers, the vast majority of whom are Trump supporters and denizens of the online manosphere.

Trump’s executive order limits women’s job options to secretarial work, teaching elementary school and nursing — with their husbands’ permission, of course. The order also repeals female suffrage. The vast majority of women will become homemakers and tradwives, administration officials explained, while the hottest bitches will be conscripted to work in government-run brothels with profits going to the Trump family.

At press time, the Supreme Court rubber stamped the president’s executive order by a vote of 6-3.

 

[WAB]

Still waiting for @RVonse to explain this disempowering the wimmins thing, and how it would help incels get laid.

I am still waiting for a reason why anyone other than themselves should care a whit whether or not incels get laid.

They become dangerous sometimes?
Maybe WAB will share the address of the “incel forum” and you can judge for yourself. I’m concerned if there are truly lots and lots of them. But I suspect they are disproportionately loud, as they are disproportionately whiney, and there aren’t so many of them.
AFAICS they like to talk about 20% of men being attractive to 80% of women, even though no normal man expects to get laid by 80% of women for no reason except that they fancy themself among the 20%.
If you are a male, and are attractive to a tiny fraction - say 0.1% of women - that means there are hundred of thousands or millions of women you could attract (pro tip: try one at a time!), just on the basis of superficial attraction. Unless you’re just simply an asshole and/or a creep, it’s just a matter of getting out there instead of commiserating and raging on some pity party “incel” forum.

This is the forum I went to.

Inceldom Discussion

Talk about inceldom, coping strategies, and anything else related to involuntary celibacy. Share your experiences here.

incels.is

It was the first to come up in my search. I read through about four threads and glanced at others. The site claims over 33,000 members, and it certainly looks busy.

Tons of misogyny, and an equal measure of self-loathing. There is a curious reliance on invented, insider jargon and terminology, so much so that half the time I have no idea what they're talking about.

 

[Politesse]

Still waiting for @RVonse to explain this disempowering the wimmins thing, and how it would help incels get laid.

I am still waiting for a reason why anyone other than themselves should care a whit whether or not incels get laid.

Because they're Trump's "muscle".