The Only Way To Defeat Trump

[Politesse]

The fact that the Oakland NAACP doesn't want her either is kind of a hint that its not her race that's the problem.

I don't suppose you're actually curious about what has happened to the Oakland NAACP in recent years, and why they are now in lockstep with the Republican machine on most issues, not just this one. But if you are, you can learn more here.

I'm sure there are some people out there who legitimately hate Price for being a Progressive, not as such for her skin color or lack of rich jerk cred. Not everyone in the Bay Area is a "liberal", this is true. The leadership of the Oakland NAACP certainly is not, at present. But the place to hash that out was the fair and legal election in which Price was elected, not with this sham of a recall.

I am aware that the Oakland NAACP has been deviating from the established, prescribed narrative of the other chapters. Its called dispensing with ideology and thinking for yourself. Nothing wrong with that...they apparently realized these are desperate times and the old school ideas aren't working. To ignore possible solutions to problems just because "Republicans like them" is pretty shortsighted, IMHO. In case you haven't noticed, California politics (at the state level and in the Bay Area) has been largely dominated by progressives for many years now...its not exactly a paradise as a result.

But what its important here is what the citizens of Oakland themselves are experiencing and what they want from their leaders. You might find this survey interesting. In particular, the bold:

CRIME IS OVERWHELMINGLY OAKLAND’S TOP CONCERN

A September 14-18, 2023, survey of likely voters revealed that Public Safety dominates Oakland voters’ concerns. Eighty three percent (83%) of the respondents ranked Public Safety and Crime as their number one issue and ninety two percent (92%) want their leaders to focus on reducing crime.

Seventy four percent (74%) of likely voters want to increase the police force from the current number of 723 officers to 1,000. Seventy four percent (74%) of Oakland voters say things in Oakland are going in the wrong direction. Similarly, seventy four percent (74%) believe the quality of life in Oakland has gotten worse.

The majority of Oakland voters disapprove of the performance of their elected officials. Fifty seven (57%) percent disapprove of the way Mayor Thao is handling her job while only twenty nine (29%) approve. Sixty six percent (66%) disapprove of the way the City Council is handling its job while only seventeen (17%) approve.

The survey was commissioned by The McConnell Group. It was conducted by RG Strategies which is affiliated with Binder Research, one of the most highly regarded research companies in the country. It was comprised on 400 likely voters, randomly selected. Sixty five percent of the respondents identified themselves as progressives (35%) or liberals (30%). Twenty one percent (21%) identified as moderates and only 7% called themselves conservatives.

This is well known. I am also very concerned about crime. That doesn't mean I trust a bunch of criminal thugs who worship a clown to "solve crime" by means they cannot explain. Oakland has had enough of Republican "solutions" to crime, as your own poll there very clearly indicates; these recall guys aren't going to get what they want even if Price is in fact recalled.

Who are the criminal thugs who "worship a clown" in all of this? Be specific and name names.

Republicans.

I give up. Bye! Stay cool.

Sorry, was I supposed to use a euphemism or something? It's not like it's some sort of secret who's behind all this recall nonsense, they're hanging out on street corners harassing people like yours truly who are just trying to do their grocery shopping.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

The only way to defeat Trump is to get more people to vote for his opponent, in states with enough electoral votes to carry the election.

You would need a viable opponent and Biden is not viable.

The end goal of neoconservatism has always been to bring the entire system down. It is political nihilism at it's deepest. They don't want a functioning government. They want power to do as they like, to whom they like and amass wealth.

Getting the rest of us to surrender and let it crash and burn is exactly what they have been working towards since 1969.

One way of looking at it I suppose but it is the extreme leftists and progressives that are hellbent on burning everything down. And they are getting some traction with it too which is gathering momentum. You just need to take a look at the results in California.

I see a reasonably functioning state in California. Much lower crime rate than some of the red states.

I don't see California not providing infrastructure for red areas. I repeatedly see red states not providing infrastructure for blue areas.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

You would need a viable opponent and Biden is not viable.

Biden absolutely IS viable.

lol, not according to the polls I’ve seen.

Better than The Felon freezing for 30 seconds while speaking to the NRA.

 

[Elixir]

History def repeats itself.
The way Trump repeats Hitler’s language, fearmongering tactics, intimidation techniques and corruption, you’d be hard pressed to correctly attribute most of what either of them said. Populism leading to fascism is definitely in repeat mode right now.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

If you read that, you also read where I wrote that I understood where it was coming from. Anacostia was a vicious case of white flight taking all city services, most jobs, and all the food along with. I do wish we lived in a post-segregation society, but we don't. And pretending that we do serves no one's interest.

Something to keep in mind: White flight is mostly about education and property values. Get out while the getting's good.

Schools are to a large degree a reflection of the students they get. When you start adding inferior students the outcome for all students goes down. (And this is a big part of why private schools can outperform public--set standards for who can enter and the average of the students will go up. This means the school can teach them more.) And school quality is a big factor in property values. Thus even those who do not have children in the school system will be interested in moving to a better location as soon as they see the schools start to decline. Once they start to jump property values start heading down and the ones who go later get less for their property.

Thus there is a strong self-interest in quickly getting out at the first sign of trouble. In most cases the trouble comes in the form of non-white students but you would see the same thing if you had an influx of inferior white students, also--say, a flood of refugees from Ukraine. (Inferior because of the language issue even if they were actually just as good otherwise.)

 

[Elixir]

I don't see California not providing infrastructure for red areas. I repeatedly see red states not providing infrastructure for blue areas.

Red States don’t have the money. Despite spending more fed money than they pay in, which is compensated by places like California.
Ah, California, where idle rich “conservatives” live, play and complain about the libs’ administration’s taxes that go to supporting poor stupid Trumpsucking talk radio listeners in Appalachia.
Despite all its overregulation, corruption and irresponsible liberal fiscal policies, California still manages to pay way more into the fed than it gets back.

 

[Politesse]

If you read that, you also read where I wrote that I understood where it was coming from. Anacostia was a vicious case of white flight taking all city services, most jobs, and all the food along with. I do wish we lived in a post-segregation society, but we don't. And pretending that we do serves no one's interest.

Something to keep in mind: White flight is mostly about education and property values. Get out while the getting's good.

Schools are to a large degree a reflection of the students they get. When you start adding inferior students the outcome for all students goes down. (And this is a big part of why private schools can outperform public--set standards for who can enter and the average of the students will go up. This means the school can teach them more.) And school quality is a big factor in property values. Thus even those who do not have children in the school system will be interested in moving to a better location as soon as they see the schools start to decline. Once they start to jump property values start heading down and the ones who go later get less for their property.

Thus there is a strong self-interest in quickly getting out at the first sign of trouble. In most cases the trouble comes in the form of non-white students but you would see the same thing if you had an influx of inferior white students, also--say, a flood of refugees from Ukraine. (Inferior because of the language issue even if they were actually just as good otherwise.)

Abandoning a neighborhood because its residents are no longer a majority white population is a choice that city governments make, not a natural disaster that no one can prevent.

And if you think the problem with Anacostia was bad schools, you really don't know what the fuck you're talking about at all. The district has turned out some of the finest educators, musicians, and artists in our nation's history, despite the open antipathy of the rest of their city and nation.

 

[RVonse]

I see a reasonably functioning state in California.

The best litmus test IMO is whether or not people and jobs are moving in or moving out.

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe more people are currently running away from California, Illinois, New York and moving into Texas, Arizona, and Florida right now.

 

[Tigers!]

History def repeats itself.
The way Trump repeats Hitler’s language, fearmongering tactics, intimidation techniques and corruption, you’d be hard pressed to correctly attribute most of what either of them said. Populism leading to fascism is definitely in repeat mode right now.

That is the way of authoritarians, dictators etc, throughout then ages - Lenin, Mao, Pol Pot (just to show it is an equal opportunity industry).
The Greeks suffered from the disease, Roman with Clodius et al.
We must be on our guard at all times.

 

[Politesse]

The best litmus test IMO is whether or not people and jobs are moving in or moving out

Oh, really? Your "litmus test", eh? How, pray tell, did you come up with this litmus test? Just thought of it one day?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I see a reasonably functioning state in California.

The best litmus test IMO is whether or not people and jobs are moving in or moving out.

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe more people are currently running away from California, Illinois, New York and moving into Texas, Arizona, and Florida right now.

Regarding the 2020 Census:

Texas (+2), Florida, North Carolina, Colorado, Oregon, and Montana all gained a seat.

California, New York, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, and West Virginia all lost a seat.

So it isn't as easy to say it is all blue to red. California had so much success, it is extremely expensive to live there. So expensive, they look at expensive housing in Arizona and are gleeful about how cheap it is. Texas is getting bigger, but the solidly safe red state has been trending towards purple largely in part from that growth. The GOP probably knows that they need to seize something shortly, because without Texas, they are in very sad shape.

 

[Loren Pechtel]

I don't see California not providing infrastructure for red areas. I repeatedly see red states not providing infrastructure for blue areas.

Red States don’t have the money. Despite spending more fed money than they pay in, which is compensated by places like California.
Ah, California, where idle rich “conservatives” live, play and complain about the libs’ administration’s taxes that go to supporting poor stupid Trumpsucking talk radio listeners in Appalachia.
Despite all its overregulation, corruption and irresponsible liberal fiscal policies, California still manages to pay way more into the fed than it gets back.

It's more than just a lack of money. They treat blue areas a lot worse than red areas.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I don't see California not providing infrastructure for red areas. I repeatedly see red states not providing infrastructure for blue areas.

Red States don’t have the money. Despite spending more fed money than they pay in, which is compensated by places like California.
Ah, California, where idle rich “conservatives” live, play and complain about the libs’ administration’s taxes that go to supporting poor stupid Trumpsucking talk radio listeners in Appalachia.
Despite all its overregulation, corruption and irresponsible liberal fiscal policies, California still manages to pay way more into the fed than it gets back.

It's more than just a lack of money. They treat blue areas a lot worse than red areas.

Indeed. In Ohio, the blue area schools are starved of funding via property taxes and then the state provides vouchers to help propel brain drain and make the local schools look worse than they actually are. And the red states keep cutting funding for most aspects of life. They cut taxes to get corporations like Honda, Intel, Amazon to build in the state, but gave them so many tax cuts, it is hard to tell if it actually is a net win. Then they don't help fund expansion of areas when there is localized growth from companies like Honda moving in. The state legislature gerrymandering has help turn Ohio into a red state from a purple state.

Of course, the irony is, the solid red areas aren't exactly looked after by Columbus either. And then I look at those areas after Trump, and nothing improved. Nothing was made great again.

 

[Elixir]

It's more than just a lack of money.

Yeah, that was tongue in cheek.
“They” (people administrating red States) have plenty of money, largely because the rest of “them” (their subjects) have none.
The lifestyles of the very few require the support of many held at a level of poverty that compels their service.
Don’t ask how I know.

 

[SLD]

I'm reminded of the Avengers movie, where the only way to defeat Thanos was to let him win.

Did you see the same movie I saw???

And that's what's going to happen now.

the silver lining is that trump supporters are probably going to suffer massively for this. Unfortunately so will everyone else. Hopefully not too many die.

 

[ZiprHead]

The Trumpers are going to get what they want, and get it good and hard.

And there's no way to blame it on the Dems.

 

[SLD]

The Trumpers are going to get what they want, and get it good and hard.

And there's no way to blame it on the Dems.

Well, not for lack of trying. I heard that about the crash of 2008. somehow, when republicans were in charge there were some deregulation bills that the dems didn't fight against. So the economic collapse of 2008 was their fault.

I hope this time around when it happens they don't bail out the economy. Let it sink I say. Give them a real taste of the medicine that Trump promised them.

 

[TomC]

The Trumpers are going to get what they want, and get it good and hard.

And there's no way to blame it on the Dems.

It's already happening.
The Trump presidency is a result of having boring Democrats who just don't connect to real people. Mere beaurocrats that take care of the people as a whole instead of providing lively entertainment and drama.
Tom

 

[Shadowy Man]

The Trumpers are going to get what they want, and get it good and hard.

And there's no way to blame it on the Dems.

Of course there is a way. Trump will not take any blame nor will any of his followers. The Dems will definitely get the blame.

 

[jonatha]

And there's no way to blame it on the Dems.

Wanna bet?