The Race For 2024

[lpetrich]

Returning to Ronald Reagan's three-legged stool, let's see how these factions vary.

The factions:

• ME -- The Moderate Establishment -- Susan Collins, Charlie Baker, Chris Sununu
• TC -- The Traditional Conservatives -- Rick Perry, Tim Scott, Marco Rubio
• RW -- The Right Wing -- Ted Cruz, The Freedom Caucus, Newt Gingrich
• BCP -- The Blue Collar Populists -- Rudy Giuliani, Paul LePage, Lou Barletta, Michael Grimm
• LC -- The Libertarian Conservatives -- Rand Paul, Jason Chaffetz, Dave Brat
• NC -- The Newcomers -- Vivek Ramaswamy

Their positions on the issues:

• Donald Trump
• ME 28, LC 43, TC 55, NC 56, BCP 71, RW 71
• Ron DeSantis
• RW 10, NC 11, BCP 12, LC 12, ME 12, TC 20
• Share who support providing additional aid to Ukraine
• RW 19, LC 38, BCP 42, NC 46, TC 52, ME 76
• Share who favor cutting taxes on corporations over raising tariffs on imports
• BCP 25, LC 34, RW 38, ME 43, NC 44, TC 55
• Share who identify as very conservative
• ME 2, NC 3, BCP 19, LC 19, TC 26, RW 75
• Share who think abortion should be always or mostly legal
• RW 14, TC 23, LC 45, BCP 61, ME 67, NC 78
• Share who oppose comprehensive immigration reform
• NC 3, ME 19, TC 42, LC 51, RW 79, BCP 85
• Share who favor the protection of individual freedom over traditional values
• BCP 34, TC 44, RW 46, ME 70, LC 73, NC 75
• Share who want a candidate who would fight corporations that promote woke left ideology
• ME 11, LC 13, TC 29, RW 46, NC 62, BCP 72
• Anti-establishment
• ME 0, NC 26, TC 32, LC 47, BCP 57, RW 100
• Isolationist foreign policy
• ME 0, TC 43, NC 71, BCP 78, LC 78, RW 100
• Populist economics
• ME 0, TC 12, NC 17, LC 43, RW 69, BCP 100
• Racial conservatism
• NC 0, ME 8, TC 33, LC 49, RW 90, BCP 100
• Social conservatism
• NC 0, ME 5, BCP 33, LC 36, TC 73, RW 100
• Trump loyalty
• ME 0, LC 50, NC 57, TC 59, BCP 83, RW 100

There are splits on several issues, and not just the favorite issues of the three legs of the Republican ideological stool: the corporate libertarians (cutting corporate taxes, not regulating business), the international interventionists, and the Religious Right (opposing abortion).

Only some of the Republican Party strongly opposed abortion -- RW and TC -- and the rest of the party has gone along with that to get the Religious Right's votes. But as abortion becomes a losing issue for the party, might there be open fights in the party about it?

About corporate tax cuts vs. increasing tariffs, BCP are the most economic nationalist and TC the most pro-corporate, with the others in between. But the difference was not as high as for some other issues. BCP was the most anti-corporate and ME most pro-corporate about opposing "woke capitalism", but with NC not far behind BCP and LC not far behind ME.

Aid to Ukraine is obviously interventionist, with ME the most in support by a sizable margin and the RW least in support, also by a sizable margin. Were these Republican voters also polled about what to do about Russia and China? Cooperate with both of them? Confront both of them? Cooperate with one and confront the other?

Nationalism is likely a fourth leg of that ideological stool, strongest in BCP, supporter of higher tariffs and opposer of immigrants.

Under proportional representation, the Republican Party would likely split into several parties. How might it split?

 

[Elixir]

All that is left is "the debt" and "he is old".

Not quite. There is also the hysterical bloviating “He’s so confused, finished, has no idea…” bullshit.
The really funny thing is how badly they’ve been outwitted and outplayed by this supposed mental invalid. Makes themselves look literally brain dead.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

All that is left is "the debt" and "he is old".

Not quite. There is also the hysterical bloviating “He’s so confused, finished, has no idea…” bullshit.
The really funny thing is how badly they’ve been outwitted and outplayed by this supposed mental invalid. Makes themselves look literally brain dead.

On the other hand, they did vote for a guy that bragged about passing a basic competency test (and said it wasn't easy), so maybe they are more knowledgeable on the subject.

 

[Cheerful Charlie]

Trump. So mentally capable he has been indicted for 91 felonies. And has been indicted 4 times so far.

 

[bilby]

All that is left is "the debt" and "he is old".

Not quite. There is also the hysterical bloviating “He’s so confused, finished, has no idea…” bullshit.
The really funny thing is how badly they’ve been outwitted and outplayed by this supposed mental invalid. Makes themselves look literally brain dead.

On the other hand, they did vote for a guy that bragged about passing a basic competency test (and said it wasn't easy), so maybe they are more knowledgeable on the subject.

The Montreal Cognitive Assessment isn't a basic competency test; It's specifically designed as a test for dementia.

It's supposed to be easy, for anyone who isn't literally demented.

 

[Elixir]

It's supposed to be easy, for anyone who isn't literally demented.

That's what's so totally awesome about Mr President Trump!
HE DID IT! Dementia and all!

FIVE WHOLE WORDS!!!!
What an incredible mind! Once in a century intellect!

 

[Copernicus]

All of this from that awful, embarrassing, disastrous trip to Maui.

All of what? Brandon is an old duffer, he's getting worse. We all see it. Brandon will be lucky to finish this term the way he's going let alone see out another term. And that toad Newsom has been angling for a a chance to run for the past year.

The toad will likely get his chance later. He's just still in the game for the same reason that Trump's rivals are. They all want to be in place if the frontrunner somehow loses that status.

Brandon is finished, look at the state of him. Jeezus, he hardly knows where he is half the time.

You may not have watched the Chris Hayes video snippet that I gave you, but I think he really nailed it. Most people don't see Biden as the same suffering, senile fool as those like yourself do who are caught inside the right wing information bubble. That's why Trump lost the 2020 election by such a wide margin, much to the dismay and disbelief of so many of his supporters. You are all now back, thinking that Biden can't possibly win because of his obvious state of senile decay, and you'll be surprised anew if it really does come down to a competition between those two old duffers. I just find it hard to believe that Trump is going to live up to the poll numbers he's enjoying now when it comes to actual voting in Republican primaries. Democrats could have a real struggle on their hands, if Trump is not the nominee.

But if that's your guy, have at it.

I don't really need your permission, but I'm happy to oblige.

 

[ZiprHead]

All of this from that awful, embarrassing, disastrous trip to Maui.

All of what? Brandon is an old duffer, he's getting worse. We all see it. Brandon will be lucky to finish this term the way he's going let alone see out another term. And that toad Newsom has been angling for a a chance to run for the past year.

Brandon is finished, look at the state of him. Jeezus, he hardly knows where he is half the time.

But if that's your guy, have at it.

Awww. Bless your heart, swizzle.

BTW, weren't you the guy that claimed the Secret Service didn't wear uniforms?

That was another brilliant Swizzle Fizzle.

 

[Shadowy Man]

All of this from that awful, embarrassing, disastrous trip to Maui.

All of what? Brandon is an old duffer, he's getting worse. We all see it. Brandon will be lucky to finish this term the way he's going let alone see out another term. And that toad Newsom has been angling for a a chance to run for the past year.

Brandon is finished, look at the state of him. Jeezus, he hardly knows where he is half the time.

But if that's your guy, have at it.

Awww. Bless your heart, swizzle.

BTW, weren't you the guy that claimed the Secret Service didn't wear uniforms?

That was another brilliant Swizzle Fizzle.

If they wear uniforms how can they be a secret??

 

[TomC]

Kamala Harris is no favorite of mine either.

She's still a hundred times less objectionable than anyone in the GOP top 20 list.

All they have to do is get to late November next year.
Kamala reminds me, in some ways, of Godzillary Clinton. Good ways. As in "I'm following the law, but I ain't taking no shit off you boys! Things are gonna happen that you will regret."
Tom

 

[Elixir]

They all want to be in place if the frontrunner somehow loses that status.

Yup. The question is … when does Trump become such a liability to his dark money donors, that they have to have him … uh … “Prighozined”?

 

[TSwizzle]

You may not have watched the Chris Hayes video snippet that I gave you, but I think he really nailed it. Most people don't see Biden as the same suffering, senile fool as those like yourself do who are caught inside the right wing information bubble.

I watched about 40 seconds. In Brandon, I see an old codger in decline, getting more and more frail every time I see him on TV and every time he opens his mouth. I see a very elderly man that looks like he's going to be in an old folks home quite soon. That you think this is some sort of right wing MAGA conspiracy is quite astonishing. What do you actually see when you look at Biden? It's not as if he's a spry 80 year old.

 

[TomC]

That you think this is some sort of right wing MAGA conspiracy is quite astonishing.

Say wut?

Trump is a known criminal.
You may not realize it, but most of us do. The big question in the current U.S. political landscape is "What's wrong with having a known criminal in the White House?"

Biden is rather an old codger. But he isn't trying to take down America. He's got a staff that actually does what American people need and want done. He could probably die tonight and his staff would continue to function, serving The People.

Trump's staff would come in to work wondering what lie they're supposed to tell today.
Tom

 

[Elixir]

That you think this is some sort of right wing MAGA conspiracy is quite astonishing.

18 co-conspirators are amazed how effective RW brainwashing has been on the morons who watch FOX News.
They’re each hoping they get at least one Swiz on their juries.

 

[thebeave]

You don't have to be a MAGA Republican to think Joe Biden is too old to be POTUS:

Democrats Are Worried About Joe Biden

Democrats are worried about President Joe Biden, according to new polling conducted for Newsweek that asked voters about their views on the president's age.

The Redfield & Wilton Strategies poll found that a majority of Democrats said they were "concerned" about Biden's ability to perform his job given the fact that he's now 80.

Biden is the oldest serving president in U.S. history and he's seeking a second term. If he is re-elected and serves a full term, he would be 86 when leaving office in 2029.

The exclusive polling conducted for Newsweek found that while a majority of Biden voters were concerned about the president age, there was greater division about whether his age means he should not be seeking re-election.

Similar with independents:

Nearly half of independent voters say Biden’s age ‘severely’ limits ability to be president

Nearly half of independent voters in a new poll say President Biden’s health and age “severely” limits his ability to be president, as he runs for reelection to the White House in 2024.

A The Economist-YouGov poll, released Wednesday, found that 45 percent of U.S. adults think Biden’s health and age “severely limit his ability to do the job.”

Just 11 percent think his age and health have “no effect at all” on his job performance, and 34 percent think those factors have “little effect.” Another 10 percent aren’t sure.

And what's really crazy...

Fifty percent of adults in the poll said they think Sen. Dianne Feinstein’s (D-Calif.) age severely limits her ability to fulfill her Senate duties. At 89, Feinstein recently returned to the Senate after weeks away from Capitol Hill as she battled complications from shingles, prompting concerns and calls to step down.

Biden is ahead of Feinstein by only 5 points! I like Feinstein (Biden not so much), but she is way past time to let go, IMHO.

 

[TomC]

You don't have to be a MAGA Republican to think Joe Biden is too old to be POTUS:

You don't have to be a socialist Democrat to think Biden was way better than any of the other feasible choices in 2020.
Tom

 

[Copernicus]

You may not have watched the Chris Hayes video snippet that I gave you, but I think he really nailed it. Most people don't see Biden as the same suffering, senile fool as those like yourself do who are caught inside the right wing information bubble.

I watched about 40 seconds. In Brandon, I see an old codger in decline, getting more and more frail every time I see him on TV and every time he opens his mouth. I see a very elderly man that looks like he's going to be in an old folks home quite soon. That you think this is some sort of right wing MAGA conspiracy is quite astonishing. What do you actually see when you look at Biden? It's not as if he's a spry 80 year old.

Too bad. You had to stick with it to get the point he was making, especially when he got to the dog clip that you mentioned in your post. Anyway, I'm not surprised. You are in that bubble, because you chose to put yourself there. I can understand that it might be uncomfortable to step outside of it for longer than 40 seconds.

 

[thebeave]

You don't have to be a MAGA Republican to think Joe Biden is too old to be POTUS:

You don't have to be a socialist Democrat to think Biden was way better than any of the other feasible choices in 2020.
Tom

I don't know about "way better". Relooking at the candidates again I wonder if Amy Klobachar or Pete B. would have been more sensible choices, though neither are as experienced as I would have liked, or particularly light my fire.

 

[TSwizzle]

You may not have watched the Chris Hayes video snippet that I gave you, but I think he really nailed it. Most people don't see Biden as the same suffering, senile fool as those like yourself do who are caught inside the right wing information bubble.

I watched about 40 seconds. In Brandon, I see an old codger in decline, getting more and more frail every time I see him on TV and every time he opens his mouth. I see a very elderly man that looks like he's going to be in an old folks home quite soon. That you think this is some sort of right wing MAGA conspiracy is quite astonishing. What do you actually see when you look at Biden? It's not as if he's a spry 80 year old.

Too bad. You had to stick with it to get the point he was making, especially when he got to the dog clip that you mentioned in your post. Anyway, I'm not surprised. You are in that bubble, because you chose to put yourself there. I can understand that it might be uncomfortable to step outside of it for longer than 40 seconds.

What was his point? That Biden isn't really in his 80s? He's only 65 and a few months and any talk of his age is a MAGA conspiracy.

 

[TomC]

You don't have to be a MAGA Republican to think Joe Biden is too old to be POTUS:

You don't have to be a socialist Democrat to think Biden was way better than any of the other feasible choices in 2020.
Tom

I don't know about "way better". Relooking at the candidates again I wonder if Amy Klobachar or Pete B. would have been more sensible choices, though neither are as experienced as I would have liked, or particularly light my fire.

What does "more sensible" mean in that context?

One thing I learned from the 2008 election is that experience matters. With the clarity of hindsight, I've long wished that Hillary had been the easiest election win ever.

Oh well. Some black kid from Chicago beat a wealthy, white, male, connected, experienced war veteran. Even after McCain added the best pair of boobs ever seen on a presidential ticket.
Wink Wink

Pete B and various people like him and what's left of the conservative right might be great candidates one day. But I'm talking about the here and now.
Tom