The Race For 2024

[Jimmy Higgins]

Seems to me, Christian Nationalists/Dominionists (and their enablers and sympathizers) are a much more immediate threat to US society as we know it than Islam.

If you're a man.

You can't be that unaware of what the Christian Dominionists want and advocate for?

I know that they don't advocate for women to be kept as property, denied all education, not allowed to drive or be out in public without a male escort, or be stoned for the sin of having been raped.

Want to ban contraception. Telling teens to go to college to find a husband. Stay at home and be a Mom. These are all actual things that are being advocated for in America. Anti-Semitism (as a bonus). It wasn't that long ago a woman couldn't get a mortgage. That was Christian America. These people want to turn back the clock before that change happened.

All of that is bad. But it's not as bad as literally keeping women as chattel denied education and not allowed to exist as independent entities.

The 1950s housewife is not as bad as the 2020s afghani property:

Hey look, a lower bar over there! Also, I don't think you understand what returning to being a 1950's woman actually entails if you think it wasn't a second class status for women... even when allowed to vote. Oh, but it is better than living under the Taliban. FFS!

I can object to both.

You can, but you really don't.

But if you think that the first is as bad as, or even approaching parity with, the second... I think you're blinded by your male privilege.

You know I haven't ever said that, or remotely implied it. So, what was your point? That losing access to birth control will be okay as long as Muslims aren't the reason?

 

[Emily Lake]

No, I want you to focus on the ravenous rats under our bed instead of the rabid wolf circling the camp across the ocean. Which, by the way, has absolutely effing nothing to do with my or your gender.

I agree it has nothing to do with gender, but it has a whole lot to do with sex.

Do you think the impact to men is the same as to women in islamic-dominant societies?

 

[laughing dog]

No, I want you to focus on the ravenous rats under our bed instead of the rabid wolf circling the camp across the ocean. Which, by the way, has absolutely effing nothing to do with my or your gender.

I agree it has nothing to do with gender, but it has a whole lot to do with sex.

Not from my POV.

Do you think the impact to men is the same as to women in islamic-dominant societies?

No. But the probability of the US becoming an Islamic society is magnitudes less than becoming a facsimile of Gilead from the Handmaid’s Tale.

Like it or not, we cannot do much to alleviate the lot of anyone living in any foreign retrograde society except to provide an aspirational example or to successfully conquer them via physical force. Right now, Trump is tarnishing that example and conquering is off the table.

 

[Shadowy Man]

Islam exists also, and what that religion wants is something I oppose. They also exist throughout the world, and they control several governments. In those governments they have stripped women of basic rights within our lifetime - no right to vote, or to be educated, or to own property, or even to leave the house without a male escort, being required to cover themselves entirely. That's an entirely different order of risk, and if it gains a foothold, it's something that women lose the ability to fight against in a meaningful way.

The risk of islam is greater. And it's growing.

Are all Muslim-controlled countries like that (my bold in your quote)? Because if not then maybe it isn’t all due to Islam.

 

[bilby]

Do you think the impact to men is the same as to women in islamic-dominant societies?

Do you think it isn't in Christian Dominionist societies? They both literally take their rules from the same book.

The only difference is that the Christian assholes have a real prospect of power in the US, and the Muslim ones don't.

 

[Emily Lake]

Do you think the impact to men is the same as to women in islamic-dominant societies?

Do you think it isn't in Christian Dominionist societies? They both literally take their rules from the same book.

The only difference is that the Christian assholes have a real prospect of power in the US, and the Muslim ones don't.

And yet... if you look around the world, it seems as though christian sects aren't actively keeping women as property. Huh, why would that be, do you think?

 

[bilby]

Do you think the impact to men is the same as to women in islamic-dominant societies?

Do you think it isn't in Christian Dominionist societies? They both literally take their rules from the same book.

The only difference is that the Christian assholes have a real prospect of power in the US, and the Muslim ones don't.

And yet... if you look around the world, it seems as though christian sects aren't actively keeping women as property.

Much.
At the moment.
Though they did far more so in the very recent past.

Huh, why would that be, do you think?

Dunno. Probably because people (particularly women) stood up to them.

Certainly not because they turned into nice people, or because they stopped believing that their book gives men doninion over women (it's the SAME book, remember?).

Is this recent change permanent, do you think? Why would it be?

It wasn't in Afghanistan or Persia; Why would it be in Alabama or Mississippi?

 

[Patooka]

Do you think the impact to men is the same as to women in islamic-dominant societies?

Do you think it isn't in Christian Dominionist societies? They both literally take their rules from the same book.

The only difference is that the Christian assholes have a real prospect of power in the US, and the Muslim ones don't.

And yet... if you look around the world, it seems as though christian sects aren't actively keeping women as property. Huh, why would that be, do you think?

Shut the fuck up and know your place, Nikki Buckley.

By the way, make me a sandwich.

 

[scombrid]

Your post highlights above was rude and hateful, Poli.

The post I was replying to had no content, except a jab about supposedly kowtowing too much to Muslims. It's so far removed from the actual topic of either the thread or my post, I don't see how else one can respond. You hate Muslims. You think Democrats are too soft on Muslims. What is there to talk about? It had nothing to do with the topic at hand.

I don’t hate Muslims. I find the religion of Islam to be abhorrent toward women, and for thousands of years it’s been used to justify colonization, conquest, oppression, and genocide.

None of which justifies your nastiness and insults toward me.

If you don’t want to receive it, simply stop dishing it out. I’ve given plenty of warning of my expectations. You control the tenor of our interactions.

colonization conquest oppression genocide. The type of Christian’s running the GOP never did any of that.

Not in quite a while, at least. I haven't claimed christians are free from criticism, not by a long shot. Just that on average, they've learned from the past and no longer engage in such behavior at scale.

And be honest - the christians running the DNC are part of that mess too.

More seriously - why do you feel it necessary to defend a religion that is actively, currently, in modern times doing such horrible things? Arabic states, which are ALL islamic, have the highest rates of forced labor and sexual slavery, they have the most oppressed women by far of any other cultural group out there, and muslims actively engaged in *literal* genocide in Nigeria.

Why do so many of the same people who say they value equality and oppose oppression close their eyes to it when it's actually happening?

Que?

 

[unapologetic]

WTF?? that guy is picking and eating earwax???

But we must worry about the Muslims that consist of probably 1/4 to 1/3 of the bring back the 50s Christian Dominionists in the US.

Muslim Christians? Sounds like an oxymoron to me.
OK some are possible, but 1/4 to 1/3? They would tear that movement apart.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Do you think the impact to men is the same as to women in islamic-dominant societies?

Do you think it isn't in Christian Dominionist societies? They both literally take their rules from the same book.

The only difference is that the Christian assholes have a real prospect of power in the US, and the Muslim ones don't.

And yet... if you look around the world, it seems as though christian sects aren't actively keeping women as property. Huh, why would that be, do you think?

Because they lost in the 1960s and 1970s, women's rights were expanded (though the equal rights amendment never passed... because gosh... I fucking wonder why). These people didn't let this happen, they were dragged into the present. And now they want to drag America back. But hey... it won't be Somalia. That'll be an optimistic spin when women need a man's help to get a loan again.

 

[Toni]

Your post highlights above was rude and hateful, Poli.

The post I was replying to had no content, except a jab about supposedly kowtowing too much to Muslims. It's so far removed from the actual topic of either the thread or my post, I don't see how else one can respond. You hate Muslims. You think Democrats are too soft on Muslims. What is there to talk about? It had nothing to do with the topic at hand.

I don’t hate Muslims. I find the religion of Islam to be abhorrent toward women, and for thousands of years it’s been used to justify colonization, conquest, oppression, and genocide.

None of which justifies your nastiness and insults toward me.

If you don’t want to receive it, simply stop dishing it out. I’ve given plenty of warning of my expectations. You control the tenor of our interactions.

No offense but your description of Muslims sounds pretty much like Christians.

As far as expecting people to conform to whatever standards you’ve decided THEY need to follow: We are all adults here and have free agency. We don’t have to like each other or agree with each other. We can ignore other people either by using the ignore function or just skipping what someone writes in general or on a particular topic.

Attacking someone because you don’t think they are sufficiently respectful is not making the changes in behavior that you are hoping for.

You know the old definition that describes doing the same thing over and over and expecting different t results? I think we are there now.

 

[Toni]

Your post highlights above was rude and hateful, Poli.

The post I was replying to had no content, except a jab about supposedly kowtowing too much to Muslims. It's so far removed from the actual topic of either the thread or my post, I don't see how else one can respond. You hate Muslims. You think Democrats are too soft on Muslims. What is there to talk about? It had nothing to do with the topic at hand.

I don’t hate Muslims. I find the religion of Islam to be abhorrent toward women, and for thousands of years it’s been used to justify colonization, conquest, oppression, and genocide.

None of which justifies your nastiness and insults toward me.

If you don’t want to receive it, simply stop dishing it out. I’ve given plenty of warning of my expectations. You control the tenor of our interactions.

colonization conquest oppression genocide. The type of Christian’s running the GOP never did any of that.

Not in quite a while, at least. I haven't claimed christians are free from criticism, not by a long shot. Just that on average, they've learned from the past and no longer engage in such behavior at scale.

And be honest - the christians running the DNC are part of that mess too.

More seriously - why do you feel it necessary to defend a religion that is actively, currently, in modern times doing such horrible things? Arabic states, which are ALL islamic, have the highest rates of forced labor and sexual slavery, they have the most oppressed women by far of any other cultural group out there, and muslims actively engaged in *literal* genocide in Nigeria.

Why do so many of the same people who say they value equality and oppose oppression close their eyes to it when it's actually happening?

I don’t know. Why you suppose that is?

 

[Toni]

Do you think the impact to men is the same as to women in islamic-dominant societies?

Do you think it isn't in Christian Dominionist societies? They both literally take their rules from the same book.

The only difference is that the Christian assholes have a real prospect of power in the US, and the Muslim ones don't.

And yet... if you look around the world, it seems as though christian sects aren't actively keeping women as property. Huh, why would that be, do you think?

Are you sure about that? While I understand that many Christians reject the idea of Mormons being Christian at all, and mainstream Mormons reject FDLS, FDLS consider themselves Christian and they pretty much consider women as property.

Oh, and Project 2025 and its successive missives ….

 

[Elixir]

More seriously - why do you feel it necessary to defend a religion that is actively, currently, in modern times doing such horrible things?

WHY DO YOU BEAT YOUR CHILDREN EMILY!!!
Just an aside - RELIGIONS don’t do horrible things. Religious PEOPLE do horrible things. The fact that so many religious people do horrible things is a reflection upon religions, and if you are religious, you are taking part in those horrors even if you are brainwashed into thinking it’s only the Others who hold Other religious beliefs who commit atrocities.

I forget who pointed out that anyone who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities, but that is the truth at the core of religious conflict.
Religions are UNIFORMLY founded on absurdities, for that very reason.

 

[Toni]

More seriously - why do you feel it necessary to defend a religion that is actively, currently, in modern times doing such horrible things?

WHY DO YOU BEAT YOUR CHILDREN EMILY!!!
Just an aside - RELIGIONS don’t do horrible things. Religious PEOPLE do horrible things. The fact that so many religious people do horrible things is a reflection upon religions, and if you are religious, you are taking part in those horrors even if you are brainwashed into thinking it’s only the Others who hold Other religious beliefs who commit atrocities.

People do horrible things. With or without religion.

 

[Elixir]

More seriously - why do you feel it necessary to defend a religion that is actively, currently, in modern times doing such horrible things?

WHY DO YOU BEAT YOUR CHILDREN EMILY!!!
Just an aside - RELIGIONS don’t do horrible things. Religious PEOPLE do horrible things. The fact that so many religious people do horrible things is a reflection upon religions, and if you are religious, you are taking part in those horrors even if you are brainwashed into thinking it’s only the Others who hold Other religious beliefs who commit atrocities.

People do horrible things. With or without religion.

That is very true Toni. Facilitation is a real thing, though. A belief system that accommodates horrible acts might not be the seed of the horror, but it Is a powerful structural aid to rationalizing, perpetuating and spreading acts of horror.

 

[southernhybrid]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Muslim_women_heads_of_state_and_government
Just to set the record straight, there have been and still are plenty of female Muslim leaders in government. The US has yet to elect a female president and I agree that conservative Christianity is the greater threat right now, aka, While Christian Nationalists that are working hard to establish a Christian theocracy.

This is a list of female Muslim heads of state and heads of government. Some countries do not have a Muslim-majority. The list is chronological.

The site contains lots of images and IIDB would not allow me to paste more than five so if interested in who all the female Muslims leaders are in various governments, click on the link. Not all Muslims are the same, just like not all Christians are the same.

 

[Toni]

More seriously - why do you feel it necessary to defend a religion that is actively, currently, in modern times doing such horrible things?

WHY DO YOU BEAT YOUR CHILDREN EMILY!!!
Just an aside - RELIGIONS don’t do horrible things. Religious PEOPLE do horrible things. The fact that so many religious people do horrible things is a reflection upon religions, and if you are religious, you are taking part in those horrors even if you are brainwashed into thinking it’s only the Others who hold Other religious beliefs who commit atrocities.

People do horrible things. With or without religion.

That is very true Toni. Facilitation is a real thing, though. A belief system that accommodates horrible acts might not be the seed of the horror, but it Is a powerful structural aid to rationalizing, perpetuating and spreading acts of horror.

Yes but here's the thing: Religions are created by people. In my more optimistic days, I believe that religions grew out of a very human need to describe our purpose in life (general, not specific to one person), to describe and even enforce a moral code, to understand a force/forces larger than ourselves.

It is pretty obvious that with regards to the Abrahamic religions, that their roots are in the cultures from which they sprang. To me, it is also obvious that, as with all things, people have perverted the aims (moral code which all societies need) of the religion with their own moral failings. As with all things, religion can be corrupted by greed, desire for power, sexism, mental illness, need for revenge, etc.

I do not blame religion. I blame people.

 

[Elixir]

I do not blame religion. I blame people.

Well… it’s fairly inarguable that religions regularly serve as vehicles of all kinds of evils. It’s true that religions don’t generally DO the heinous things they enable, but they are focii of agreement, and such agreement is foundational to mob behavior.

To me, it comes down to the axiom - if it can convince you of the impossible, it can cause you to do the unthinkable. Or something like that.