To Give You a Size of the Immense and Growing Size of Illegal Immigration

[Loren Pechtel]

We have systems in place to minimize the impact. Try getting on the wrong side of the IRS over identity theft wages... At least when it happened to my mother there were not systems to handle it.

Again, I can sympathize. Identity theft sucks for those individuals who experience it. But that's no reason to get rid of digital identities.

Likewise, a prison sentence really sucks for those who are innocent. But that doesn't mean we should never implement prisons or a court system.

The problem is identity theft is simply too easy.

The problem as I see it is, unscrupulous politicians shriek that "undocumented aliens are flooding our borders! Vote for me and I'll fix it!" This message causes some members of this board to shriek the same things.

But what do those politicians actually do when in office? Nothing, because their corporate donors don't want to see their source of cheap labor cut off. Instead, they keep shrieking, or they propose heavy-handed "solutions" that are inhumane (Shoot to Kill!), impossible (Build a Giant Wall and Make Mexico Pay For It!) or won't survive judicial scrutiny (Invade Their Home Countries!)

That they don't work to implement solutions that are not Inhumane or Impossible or Illegal shows that for them, undocumented immigration is not a problem to be solved but an issue on which to fundraise. It's too bad the voters who support those politicians can't see that as well.

Agreed. It's a bogeyman.

 

[bilby]

You can not count who you did not catch but there are indirect ways knowing the obvious. Such as housing no one can afford and people living on the streets. Same number of housing stock but more people needing housing = people living in tents.

The solution is to close the border. Not that hard.

So, your solution to illegal immigration is to ... stop legal border crossings.

Or are you unaware of what the phrase "close the border" actually means?

 

[Toni]

That choice is being made by the USA, not the immigrants.
Tom

I would say it's more that the businesses have power that the immigrants don't.

At the moment, an agribusiness like a farm or a meat-packing plant can skirt the regulations by pleading ignorance. "How could we have possibly known that this busload of workers that just showed up that are all speaking a Guatemalan dialect of Spanish are illegal immigrants?" and there's effectively no consequences for them. If ICE stops the bus before they get to the plant, the immigrants are rounded up and shipped off, they lose the money they paid to the coyotes, and it all starts over again.

The fact that they are clearly immigrants doesn't prove they are illegal immigrants.

There was a period where my wife spoke pretty poor English--but was here legally. Her only proof of that was a letter with no security features. Give the employers an adequate way to know! And avoid identity theft.

That is something that hospitals are likely to use as well as universities and research firms. Agribusiness? Nope. They count on the workers being undocumented so that they can underpay and overwork them and otherwise ignore the rather lax labor lies applicable to farm labor.

Your wife came over as an MD, if I’m not mistaken. That cannot have been easy for her. Much respect for all of her hard work and dedication and sympathy for the not inconsiderable hardships she endured. Truly. Same applies if she came as a medical student. Very difficult. But with much better prospects for decent treatment and opportunity to earn decent wages.

 

[TSwizzle]

New York City kicked students out of a Brooklyn high school in order to relocate nearly 2,000 migrants housed at Floyd Bennett Field ahead of a potentially damaging storm. Republican Councilwoman Inna Vernikov posted video of the migrants entering James Madison High School without having to scan their faces the way students typically do. 'A lot of law enforcement and other agency resources have been poured into this situation tonight. Also, these children are being moved from place to place and will be forced to wake up at 4:30am to leave the school to go elsewhere. Unacceptable situation for all!' In a statement, City Hall referred to the illegal migrants as 'guests' and called it a temporary stay.
'The health and safety of migrants in our care is always a top priority, which is why we are currently overseeing the relocation of 1,900 guests from the humanitarian emergency response and relief center at Floyd Bennett Field due to an updated forecast with increased wind speeds estimated to be at over 70 MPH tonight.'

Daily Mail

Brandon Harris 2024!

 

[thebeave]

New York City kicked students out of a Brooklyn high school in order to relocate nearly 2,000 migrants housed at Floyd Bennett Field ahead of a potentially damaging storm. Republican Councilwoman Inna Vernikov posted video of the migrants entering James Madison High School without having to scan their faces the way students typically do. 'A lot of law enforcement and other agency resources have been poured into this situation tonight. Also, these children are being moved from place to place and will be forced to wake up at 4:30am to leave the school to go elsewhere. Unacceptable situation for all!' In a statement, City Hall referred to the illegal migrants as 'guests' and called it a temporary stay.
'The health and safety of migrants in our care is always a top priority, which is why we are currently overseeing the relocation of 1,900 guests from the humanitarian emergency response and relief center at Floyd Bennett Field due to an updated forecast with increased wind speeds estimated to be at over 70 MPH tonight.'

Daily Mail

Brandon Harris 2024!

So, they've gone from "illegal immigrants" to "undocumented immigrants" to..."guests"? I wonder what the next term is going to be? Any guesses?

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

Is using the term "guest" really that bothering? You rather they wear a scarlet I.I. on their clothes? Maybe have a nun with a cow bell walking behind them shouting "shame" everywhere they go?

 

[TSwizzle]

New York City kicked students out of a Brooklyn high school in order to relocate nearly 2,000 migrants housed at Floyd Bennett Field ahead of a potentially damaging storm. Republican Councilwoman Inna Vernikov posted video of the migrants entering James Madison High School without having to scan their faces the way students typically do. 'A lot of law enforcement and other agency resources have been poured into this situation tonight. Also, these children are being moved from place to place and will be forced to wake up at 4:30am to leave the school to go elsewhere. Unacceptable situation for all!' In a statement, City Hall referred to the illegal migrants as 'guests' and called it a temporary stay.
'The health and safety of migrants in our care is always a top priority, which is why we are currently overseeing the relocation of 1,900 guests from the humanitarian emergency response and relief center at Floyd Bennett Field due to an updated forecast with increased wind speeds estimated to be at over 70 MPH tonight.'

Daily Mail

Brandon Harris 2024!

So, they've gone from "illegal immigrants" to "undocumented immigrants" to..."guests"? I wonder what the next term is going to be? Any guesses?

One of my favorites. It's similar to a bank robbery being an "undocumented cash withdrawal".

 

[Loren Pechtel]

That choice is being made by the USA, not the immigrants.
Tom

I would say it's more that the businesses have power that the immigrants don't.

At the moment, an agribusiness like a farm or a meat-packing plant can skirt the regulations by pleading ignorance. "How could we have possibly known that this busload of workers that just showed up that are all speaking a Guatemalan dialect of Spanish are illegal immigrants?" and there's effectively no consequences for them. If ICE stops the bus before they get to the plant, the immigrants are rounded up and shipped off, they lose the money they paid to the coyotes, and it all starts over again.

The fact that they are clearly immigrants doesn't prove they are illegal immigrants.

There was a period where my wife spoke pretty poor English--but was here legally. Her only proof of that was a letter with no security features. Give the employers an adequate way to know! And avoid identity theft.

That is something that hospitals are likely to use as well as universities and research firms. Agribusiness? Nope. They count on the workers being undocumented so that they can underpay and overwork them and otherwise ignore the rather lax labor lies applicable to farm labor.

Which doesn't change the fact that the paperwork to forge legal status is trivial to forge.

Your wife came over as an MD, if I’m not mistaken. That cannot have been easy for her. Much respect for all of her hard work and dedication and sympathy for the not inconsiderable hardships she endured. Truly. Same applies if she came as a medical student. Very difficult. But with much better prospects for decent treatment and opportunity to earn decent wages.

She's traditional oriental medicine, not MD.

 

[Shadowy Man]

I don’t know exactly what fraction of immigrants come across the borders for work but if the government cracked down on employers for hiring them then the motivation to cross would dry up. The fact that the government has not suggests they aren’t as seriously worried about this as the propaganda would make it seem. But perhaps I’m missing something important here.

 

[TSwizzle]

I don’t know exactly what fraction of immigrants come across the borders for work but if the government cracked down on employers for hiring them then the motivation to cross would dry up. The fact that the government has not suggests they aren’t as seriously worried about this as the propaganda would make it seem. But perhaps I’m missing something important here.

Where have you seen propaganda that would suggest either the government or potential employers are "seriously worried" about "immigrants" coming into the USA for work? I have only seen the opposite of worry from the government, assigning the imbecile Harris to the crisis.

 

[Toni]

That choice is being made by the USA, not the immigrants.
Tom

I would say it's more that the businesses have power that the immigrants don't.

At the moment, an agribusiness like a farm or a meat-packing plant can skirt the regulations by pleading ignorance. "How could we have possibly known that this busload of workers that just showed up that are all speaking a Guatemalan dialect of Spanish are illegal immigrants?" and there's effectively no consequences for them. If ICE stops the bus before they get to the plant, the immigrants are rounded up and shipped off, they lose the money they paid to the coyotes, and it all starts over again.

The fact that they are clearly immigrants doesn't prove they are illegal immigrants.

There was a period where my wife spoke pretty poor English--but was here legally. Her only proof of that was a letter with no security features. Give the employers an adequate way to know! And avoid identity theft.

That is something that hospitals are likely to use as well as universities and research firms. Agribusiness? Nope. They count on the workers being undocumented so that they can underpay and overwork them and otherwise ignore the rather lax labor lies applicable to farm labor.

Which doesn't change the fact that the paperwork to forge legal status is trivial to forge.

Your wife came over as an MD, if I’m not mistaken. That cannot have been easy for her. Much respect for all of her hard work and dedication and sympathy for the not inconsiderable hardships she endured. Truly. Same applies if she came as a medical student. Very difficult. But with much better prospects for decent treatment and opportunity to earn decent wages.

She's traditional oriental medicine, not MD.

It doesn’t matter how easy it is to forge documents because agribusiness and most of the food industry ( for starters) never ask.

 

[Shadowy Man]

I don’t know exactly what fraction of immigrants come across the borders for work but if the government cracked down on employers for hiring them then the motivation to cross would dry up. The fact that the government has not suggests they aren’t as seriously worried about this as the propaganda would make it seem. But perhaps I’m missing something important here.

Where have you seen propaganda that would suggest either the government or potential employers are "seriously worried" about "immigrants" coming into the USA for work? I have only seen the opposite of worry from the government, assigning the imbecile Harris to the crisis.

I have seen and heard for years , including during the Trump administration, cries of how bad illegal immigration is.

Do you think that between 2017 and 2021 no companies hired illegal immigrants? What actions did Trump take to come down on employers? None as far as I know. In fact, his own companies hired illegals.

This isn’t a new problem (if it’s is actually a problem at all) it’s just one that no one seems to seriously want to solve.

 

[TSwizzle]

I don’t know exactly what fraction of immigrants come across the borders for work but if the government cracked down on employers for hiring them then the motivation to cross would dry up. The fact that the government has not suggests they aren’t as seriously worried about this as the propaganda would make it seem. But perhaps I’m missing something important here.

Where have you seen propaganda that would suggest either the government or potential employers are "seriously worried" about "immigrants" coming into the USA for work? I have only seen the opposite of worry from the government, assigning the imbecile Harris to the crisis.

I have seen and heard for years , including during the Trump administration, cries of how bad illegal immigration is.

ok, but is that propaganda and if so, who from? I keep hearing the immigration system is broken. Is that the problem? Is the problem the number of illegal immigrants?

Do you think that between 2017 and 2021 no companies hired illegal immigrants?

Why do you ask such daft questions?

This isn’t a new problem (if it’s is actually a problem at all) it’s just one that no one seems to seriously want to solve.

Still not seeing that it's all propaganda. But the problem right now are the masses of people coming in over the border, 300K in December alone, the highest ever. Is that a problem or just propaganda?

 

[Shadowy Man]

I don’t know exactly what fraction of immigrants come across the borders for work but if the government cracked down on employers for hiring them then the motivation to cross would dry up. The fact that the government has not suggests they aren’t as seriously worried about this as the propaganda would make it seem. But perhaps I’m missing something important here.

Where have you seen propaganda that would suggest either the government or potential employers are "seriously worried" about "immigrants" coming into the USA for work? I have only seen the opposite of worry from the government, assigning the imbecile Harris to the crisis.

I have seen and heard for years , including during the Trump administration, cries of how bad illegal immigration is.

ok, but is that propaganda and if so, who from? I keep hearing the immigration system is broken. Is that the problem? Is the problem the number of illegal immigrants?

Fox News is one source. Remember the caravans? Trump is another source, remember the rapists?

Do you think that between 2017 and 2021 no companies hired illegal immigrants?

Why do you ask such daft questions?

Just trying to clarify because it seemed you were only referring to the Biden Administration.

This isn’t a new problem (if it’s is actually a problem at all) it’s just one that no one seems to seriously want to solve.

Still not seeing that it's all propaganda. But the problem right now are the masses of people coming in over the border, 300K in December alone, the highest ever. Is that a problem or just propaganda?

I don’t know if it’s a problem. Clearly American industries want to hire these people, hence my point about cracking down on employers if it is actually a problem. How many migrants are seasonal employees? Like strawberry pickers? And then go back across the border to return to their families?

All I am saying is that for those illegal immigrants that are here for work wouldn’t it be a way to solve the “problem” by making sure that they can’t find work? If no one will hire them then they wouldn’t come.

Asylum seekers are a different issue as well as those who overstay visas, which is a non-negligible fraction of the undocumented.

 

[TSwizzle]

I don’t know exactly what fraction of immigrants come across the borders for work but if the government cracked down on employers for hiring them then the motivation to cross would dry up. The fact that the government has not suggests they aren’t as seriously worried about this as the propaganda would make it seem. But perhaps I’m missing something important here.

Where have you seen propaganda that would suggest either the government or potential employers are "seriously worried" about "immigrants" coming into the USA for work? I have only seen the opposite of worry from the government, assigning the imbecile Harris to the crisis.

I have seen and heard for years , including during the Trump administration, cries of how bad illegal immigration is.

ok, but is that propaganda and if so, who from? I keep hearing the immigration system is broken. Is that the problem? Is the problem the number of illegal immigrants?

Fox News is one source. Remember the caravans? Trump is another source, remember the rapists?

I don't watch Fox news, why do you watch it? There were actual caravans of people assembled and making their way north. It was reported as such on most of the networks and media. Trump says a lot of stupid stuff so that's nothing new.

Do you think that between 2017 and 2021 no companies hired illegal immigrants?

Why do you ask such daft questions?

Just trying to clarify because it seemed you were only referring to the Biden Administration.

Nah, it's a daft question, just stop.

This isn’t a new problem (if it’s is actually a problem at all) it’s just one that no one seems to seriously want to solve.

Still not seeing that it's all propaganda. But the problem right now are the masses of people coming in over the border, 300K in December alone, the highest ever. Is that a problem or just propaganda?

I don’t know if it’s a problem.

It would seem to be a problem if the mayors of New York and Chicago are whining about not being able to cope when "immigrants" make their way to their city. The border towns are having a hard time coping with so many people so I would say it is a problem. (so many people crossing over the border)

Clearly American industries want to hire these people, hence my point about cracking down on employers if it is actually a problem. How many migrants are seasonal employees? Like strawberry pickers? And then go back across the border to return to their families?

Do they? It would be down to the government to crack down on employers. Maybe the answer is less IRS agents chasing tax fraud and more ICE agents chasing down people working when not supposed to be? I really don't have an answer. It's just the way things are. The immigration system is broken it seems. I don't know any exact numbers that come and go for seasonal work but I don't think it is relevant to what is happening at the border right now.

All I am saying is that for those illegal immigrants that are here for work wouldn’t it be a way to solve the “problem” by making sure that they can’t find work? If no one will hire them then they wouldn’t come.

Perhaps but I believe a lot of them have been granted status to allow them to work. I don't think it's that easy getting a nice, permanent job without the correct status. In lieu of a fixed immigration system it may be a better idea to stop them at the point of entry. Having the imbecile Harris say "Don't come" does not seem to deter many.

Asylum seekers are a different issue as well as those who overstay visas, which is a non-negligible fraction of the undocumented.

Asylum seekers should probably stay in the first country that they get into which for a lot of the people coming north would be Mexico. And I expect that a lot of these asylum claims are bogus anyway. Speed up the hearings and send the bogus ones packing.

 

[bilby]

New York City kicked students out of a Brooklyn high school in order to relocate nearly 2,000 migrants housed at Floyd Bennett Field ahead of a potentially damaging storm.

Sure. The students were left wandering around in the wild weather, getting stuck by lightning and sucked up into tornadoes to be tormented by the Wicked Witch of the West.

Republican Councilwoman Inna Vernikov posted video of the migrants entering James Madison High School without having to scan their faces the way students typically do.

Wait, WHAT??!!

Let's just casually mention this as tjough it were completely normal, and not something bizarre and dystopian that sounds like the worst imaginings of the darkest and most bleak vision of a science fiction author undergoing treatment for severe depression.

High School students have to have their faces scanned?? What, not to put too fine a point on it, the actual FUCK??

'A lot of law enforcement and other agency resources have been poured into this situation tonight. Also, these children are being moved from place to place and will be forced to wake up at 4:30am to leave the school to go elsewhere. Unacceptable situation for all!'

Wait, these children are at school at 4:30am? Are they at least given half a bowl of gruel before being abandoned to the storm?

In a statement, City Hall referred to the illegal migrants as 'guests' and called it a temporary stay.
'The health and safety of migrants in our care is always a top priority, which is why we are currently overseeing the relocation of 1,900 guests from the humanitarian emergency response and relief center at Floyd Bennett Field due to an updated forecast with increased wind speeds estimated to be at over 70 MPH tonight.'

Daily Mail

Brandon Harris 2024!

Fuck me, the Daily Mail really does rot people's brains. Who the hell is naïve enough to actually be swayed by the blatant emotional manipulations attempted by this kind of unpolished propaganda?

Why didn't they mention the cute puppies and kittens that had to be drowned in order to make room for more "guests"?

 

[thebeave]

Is using the term "guest" really that bothering? You rather they wear a scarlet I.I. on their clothes? Maybe have a nun with a cow bell walking behind them shouting "shame" everywhere they go?

at the nun with a cowbell.

The constant need to continue renaming people so as to make them feel better about themselves (or something) never ceases to entertain. My favorite is Gavin Newsom deciding to rename criminal gangs, "organized groups of folks":



I do find it "bothering" though, that accomodating illegal immigration seems to be taking priority over the education of children. Doesn't that tell you that things are getting just a little bit out of hand? As a parent yourself, wouldn't you find it a little exasperating?

 

[Shadowy Man]

Maybe the answer is less IRS agents chasing tax fraud and more ICE agents chasing down people working when not supposed to be?

I don’t see this as an either or. Why can’t we have both? Isn’t finding tax fraud a good thing?

 

[bilby]

Maybe the answer is less IRS agents chasing tax fraud and more ICE agents chasing down people working when not supposed to be?

I don’t see this as an either or. Why can’t we have both? Isn’t finding tax fraud a good thing?

Done correctly, it's self-funding, too.

Better than self-funding; An effective IRS agent could pay for both himself and an ICE agent or two.

 

[Patooka]

Done correctly, it's self-funding, too.

Better than self-funding; An effective IRS agent could pay for both himself and an ICE agent or two.

Fuck you, that's cultural marxist thinking [/MAGAtard]