Breakdown In Civil Order

[Emily Lake]

The terrifying reality of life on San Francisco's drug-ravaged streets has been laid bare by one life-long resident who filmed her walk to work through scenes that have made the city an international symbol for squalor and despair. Tiktoker 'Freqmeek' captured the pre-dawn horror as she gingerly picked her way through dozens of desperate addicts in the city's Tenderloin district. Some are hunched against the cold while others are too intoxicated to care as cars and buses try to steer a path through unconscious addicts sprawled across the road for hundreds of yards. 'The anxiety we experience just traveling to work daily in the Tenderloin is unbelievable,' she wrote. 'There are so many concerns and protections in place for drug users and homeless people but what about the working class that have to pray that they make it to and from work in this environment. Robberies are up 14 percent so far this year in the Golden Gate City where mayor London Breed last month demanded cuts of 18 percent from next year's police budget. Reported deaths from drug overdoses reached 620 in the first nine months of the year, according to the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner, up from 540 for the same period in 2020. And the city stands to lose $200 million a year in revenue through its business exodus - which has seen major hotels and retailers flee the city center.

Daily Mail

It sounds a delightful city to visit, NOT.

Newsom 2024!!

I have not spent a lot of time in SF since the 90s. But I lived there for years - in neighborhoods from downtown to the Avenues, from the marina to the Fillmore, the Haight Ashbury to Pacific Heights. Even one place in the Castro district, which was “the gay area” back then.
I have never felt unsafe walking alone after midnight in any of those places.
WHAT CHANGED?

I suspect that what really changed was the “news” to which Swiz and others here have become addicted, generated mostly out of whole cloth, judiciously decorated with little sequins of inequitable treatment of white males by “others”.
I still have family in the area, and none of them are as tortured by the situation as badly as is our snowflake from Santa Monica. Go figure.

Just gonna point out that you haven't been there in 30 years, but you're absolutely confident that nothing at all has changed.

As a counter... when I first moved to WA in 2005, I had no concerns about downtown Seattle. There were a couple of areas that were pointed out as 'best to avoid after dark', but the vast majority was fine. When I left WA in 2018, there were several areas of downtown Seattle that had become 'best to avoid even during the day', and the areas to avoid after dark had substantially expanded. It had become easier to tell people which parts were okay to visit during the day.

That shift wasn't due to a massive statistical increase in the number of crimes. It was due to a change in the type of crimes, as well as the overall nature of the city. What used to be an all around clean, well-kept city now had large areas filled with homeless people and open drug use, as well as all the litter that comes with that - including human feces on the sidewalks. It had to do with the chance of being followed around by an obviously crazy person who would harass you.

 

[Emily Lake]

I have a question. Several of you seem to have taken a position where your response is "what are you doing about it?" along side accusations that "all you do is complain, you're not helping". This seems to happen particularly when a poster criticize politicians and policies.

So... what are people supposed to do about it? It's not like an individual can create and enact laws all by their lonesome - that's the job of politicians. They can't put new policies in place by themselves - that's the job of politicians. What are they supposed to do, walk around with a pocket full of naloxone waiting to stick random druggies? Are they supposed to open up their private homes so that complete strangers can live there rent free and get off the street? Seriously - what are people supposed to do?

In my view, what people are supposed to do is to vote for politicians who will enact effective and reasonable laws and policies, ones that will protect law abiding citizens from the harms caused by criminals and addicts. And when politicians are failing to do that we should make our displeasure with those politicians known.

 

[Elixir]

Just gonna point out that you haven't been there in 30 years,

Just going to point out that I said I haven spent A LOT OF TIME THERE RECENTLY. I have been there at least 20 times in the last 30 years, but it hasn’t been my primary residence.

but you're absolutely confident that nothing at all has changed.

Then why do you suppose I ask what changed? Something has transformed, hardened and degraded its whole vibe.

enact effective and reasonable laws and policies

Great idea. I wonder why nobody has ever thought of it. Perhaps you should put forth an example or two of laws you would consider reasonable and effective.

Personally I think “more laws” would be a remediation that fails to address the underlying causes of whatever problems they’re purported to address. That’s why I inquired about what changed.

 

[Emily Lake]

Just gonna point out that you haven't been there in 30 years,

Just going to point out that I sai I haven spent A LOT OF TIME THERE RECENTLY. I have been there at least 20 times in the last 30 years, but it hasn’t been my primary residence.

but you're absolutely confident that nothing at all has changed.

Then why do you suppose I ask what changed? Something has transformed, hardened and degraded its whole vibe.

Apologies on misunderstanding you.

enact effective and reasonable laws and policies

Great idea. I wonder why nobody has ever thought of it. Perhaps you should put forth an example or two of laws you would consider reasonable and effective.

Personally I think “more laws” would be a remediation that fails to address the underlying causes of whatever problems they’re purported to address.

"More laws" is almost never a good answer, and I get really tired of that being flung about as if it's the only possible option. Seriously, adding more chewing gum and duct tape to the morass that is our judicial system isn't really going to effectively address the problems.

I believe I've provided a recommendation previously, but I'll toss it out again.

Selective legalization of drugs - not everything should be legal, in my view. And what is legal should be highly regulated for quality, purity, and strength. Base form and minimally processed drugs are generally okay, engineered and highly concentrated ones are generally not. So for example, I would support legalizing opium and laudanum, but not heroin nor any of the medical-grade opioids. I support legalizing marijuana in its flower form, as well as fairly straightforward edible and vapor forms, but I'm not okay with dabs or shatter. Coca leaves and limited volumes of cocaine are probably okay, but crack is not. "Mommy's little helper" amphetamines weren't really a big problem, but meth is disastrous. Peyote and magic mushrooms get a thumbs up from me, but PCP is right out. I'm not an expert on all drugs by any means, I'm pretty happy with a fully functional brain. The general idea is to allow for controlled and regulated use of drugs that are either self-limiting (I've never met a shrooms addict, nor even anyone who wanted to do them more than about once a month) or are minimally addictive so that even the most frequent users are still generally going to be functional in society.

Strict enforcement of public intoxication and driving under the influence laws - that means zero tolerance for anyone shooting up in public. If that's paired with my first suggestion, then it should mostly result in drunk-tank-esque actions by law enforcement. That said, there probably needs to be some aspect of rehab incorporated into our standard expectations of health care coverage.

That brings me to my last suggestion, which is the reintroduction of government-run involuntary commitments for severe mental illness. The elimination of "looney bins" was a bad idea. Not all mental illnesses can be addressed with talk therapy (which is only haphazardly effective in the first place), and some are disruptive enough that other people should be protected from them. Maybe it's not a case of tossing people in and throwing away the key, but the current "solution" of just letting the schizophrenics and psychotics run amok on the streets is just plain stupid.

That's not going to fix everything, of course. But it would put a significant dent in some of the underlying problems that are fueling the decay of most of the urban centers under discussion. Because whether you like it or not, rampant hordes of homeless people doing drugs without consequence is what has set the stage for what's happening in CA, OR, and WA.

 

[TSwizzle]

Barely a week after Newsom had SF area cleaned up for Biden and dictator Xi meeting, the area is back to being a shithole.

They call it 'The Poopie Dance' and San Franciscans are having to learn it – and quickly. It involves constantly looking straight ahead to find a clean line between where you are on the street and where you want to go. Sadly, it's the reality in parts of the Bay City as the growing homeless population have taken to using the famed streets of San Francisco as one giant open-air toilet. 'As you walk around here, it's kind of like you have to do a Poopie Dance, always avoiding stepping in s**t,' Rick Garcia, an architect, told DailyMail.com as he finished lunch in Union Square and prepared for the precarious walk back to his office. 'The part that's most disturbing is when you walk past two parked cars and see someone squatting.'

Indeed, scenes of despair wiped from public view for one week in November are back now for all to see, in a sad return to normalcy. Call it the post-APECalypse. 'It's really bad, worse than I've ever seen it,' Howard Ul, 60, manager of the Golden State Donut Shop in the city's Tenderloin District, told DailyMail.com Friday. 'Every corner here around here now is like garbage. They're all back.' Several drug addicts were milling just outside. He was keeping an eye out for vagrants who often reach over the counter to swipe pastries. 'Why do we have to stand here and watch them, watch that guy die, watch this lady die, watch this guy falling down on the street?' he asks, frustrated. 'Everyone came for APEC, and overnight this area was cleaned up,' he said. 'They did an awesome job. My question is – why don't they come to clean anymore? What are they doing to keep it up and help people who can't seem to make choices for themselves?'

Daily Mail

Fifth largest economy in the world baby!!

 

[Elixir]

I don’t agree with bringing back the looney bin at all. But I very strongly endorse decriminalizing drugs to the greatest extent possible. The laws against them cause more harm than the drugs themselves, for the most part.

 

[Politesse]

I have a question. Several of you seem to have taken a position where your response is "what are you doing about it?" along side accusations that "all you do is complain, you're not helping". This seems to happen particularly when a poster criticize politicians and policies.

So... what are people supposed to do about it? It's not like an individual can create and enact laws all by their lonesome - that's the job of politicians. They can't put new policies in place by themselves - that's the job of politicians. What are they supposed to do, walk around with a pocket full of naloxone waiting to stick random druggies? Are they supposed to open up their private homes so that complete strangers can live there rent free and get off the street? Seriously - what are people supposed to do?

In my view, what people are supposed to do is to vote for politicians who will enact effective and reasonable laws and policies, ones that will protect law abiding citizens from the harms caused by criminals and addicts. And when politicians are failing to do that we should make our displeasure with those politicians known.

If you can't think of anything to do, you aren't really trying very hard. Get involved -- there's more than enough work to be done and always too few hands. But I don't just mean "as individuals" when I say we should work to resolve social issues and challenges, politicians also perform an important and necessary role. They should be chosen with care, and communicated with regularly.

 

[Politesse]

Barely a week after Newsom had SF area cleaned up for Biden and dictator Xi meeting, the area is back to being a shithole.

They call it 'The Poopie Dance' and San Franciscans are having to learn it – and quickly. It involves constantly looking straight ahead to find a clean line between where you are on the street and where you want to go. Sadly, it's the reality in parts of the Bay City as the growing homeless population have taken to using the famed streets of San Francisco as one giant open-air toilet. 'As you walk around here, it's kind of like you have to do a Poopie Dance, always avoiding stepping in s**t,' Rick Garcia, an architect, told DailyMail.com as he finished lunch in Union Square and prepared for the precarious walk back to his office. 'The part that's most disturbing is when you walk past two parked cars and see someone squatting.'

Indeed, scenes of despair wiped from public view for one week in November are back now for all to see, in a sad return to normalcy. Call it the post-APECalypse. 'It's really bad, worse than I've ever seen it,' Howard Ul, 60, manager of the Golden State Donut Shop in the city's Tenderloin District, told DailyMail.com Friday. 'Every corner here around here now is like garbage. They're all back.' Several drug addicts were milling just outside. He was keeping an eye out for vagrants who often reach over the counter to swipe pastries. 'Why do we have to stand here and watch them, watch that guy die, watch this lady die, watch this guy falling down on the street?' he asks, frustrated. 'Everyone came for APEC, and overnight this area was cleaned up,' he said. 'They did an awesome job. My question is – why don't they come to clean anymore? What are they doing to keep it up and help people who can't seem to make choices for themselves?'

Daily Mail

Fifth largest economy in the world baby!!

Well, someone's full of shit, anyway. I was in Union Square just on Sunday. Did not step in, or see, any human refuse.

 

[Derec]

Man in custody, accused of killing Macy's security guard, injuring another in Center City stabbing

A shoplifter stabbed a security guard to death and injured another in Philadelphia. The security guards were unfortunately unarmed. Better a dead shoplifter than a dead security guard any day.

Then about the stabber:

According to court documents, Tunnell has been arrested more than a dozen times for retail theft, robbery and drug offenses across the region, including Philadelphia and Bucks, Delaware and Montgomery counties.

So why was he not in jail? Could it have to do with Philly's left-wing, soft on crime DA?

 

[TSwizzle]

The shoplifter was probably just trying to feed his family. /sarc

What needs highlighting is that the perp (who has a considerable criminal record) had been trying to shoplift earlier but had been caught and escorted out of the store. The perp was enraged at the audacity of Macy's in stopping him from getting his free stuff and came back and stabbed two people, killing one.

"Things are just getting worse," said one woman outside the store. "People don't care. They have no heart."

It is indeed getting worse but the politicians will never admit it. In fact they will scold you and tell you it is getting better because crime is down from 1970 or some other claptrap.

 

[Emily Lake]

I don’t agree with bringing back the looney bin at all. But I very strongly endorse decriminalizing drugs to the greatest extent possible. The laws against them cause more harm than the drugs themselves, for the most part.

What's your proposal for the highly disproportionate number of people with severe mental disorders that comprise the long-term homeless population? Schizophrenia, psychosis, and PTSD manifesting with delusions and/or hallucinations are all way over-represented among the chronic homeless population.

Do you think just leaving them on the streets is a good solution?

 

[Emily Lake]

I have a question. Several of you seem to have taken a position where your response is "what are you doing about it?" along side accusations that "all you do is complain, you're not helping". This seems to happen particularly when a poster criticize politicians and policies.

So... what are people supposed to do about it? It's not like an individual can create and enact laws all by their lonesome - that's the job of politicians. They can't put new policies in place by themselves - that's the job of politicians. What are they supposed to do, walk around with a pocket full of naloxone waiting to stick random druggies? Are they supposed to open up their private homes so that complete strangers can live there rent free and get off the street? Seriously - what are people supposed to do?

In my view, what people are supposed to do is to vote for politicians who will enact effective and reasonable laws and policies, ones that will protect law abiding citizens from the harms caused by criminals and addicts. And when politicians are failing to do that we should make our displeasure with those politicians known.

If you can't think of anything to do, you aren't really trying very hard. Get involved -- there's more than enough work to be done and always too few hands. But I don't just mean "as individuals" when I say we should work to resolve social issues and challenges, politicians also perform an important and necessary role. They should be chosen with care, and communicated with regularly.

So how about you present some ideas that actually make a difference in removing the homeless from being homeless for the long term, and materially reduces the degree of serious addiction and mental illness present in them?

I donate to organizations that help feed, water, and provide medical support for the homeless. I help prepare meals for the homeless and for low-income families with food insecurity. I regularly donate to the local food banks, and I periodically hand out flyers about those food banks as well as shelters within my vicinity.

None of that actually addresses the underlying problems, it only treats the symptoms. Please go ahead and tell me what an average person can ACTUALLY do that addresses mental illness, drug addiction, and chronic homelessness while also maintaining a clean and healthy environment for all of the other people who live here.

 

[Gospel]

Maybe I'm misremembering. I recall suggesting a nationwide initiative where all 50 states collaborate to offer housing, employment, and medical care for the homeless. The idea was to match each person's skills and needs with appropriate resources through a national system, ensuring an efficient use of available support for their unique situations. Private Organizations and state governments shouldn't be lone wolfing a problem that belongs to all of us.

 

[Gospel]

Effective rehabilitation involves more than just incarceration or decriminalization of drugs; it also requires removing individuals from environments that perpetuate drug abuse. For instance, relocating a homeless drug addict to a rehab facility in a different state, away from familiar triggers, could significantly improve their recovery chances. This approach can be enhanced by offering employment opportunities suited to their abilities, with employers receiving government subsidies to partially cover wages. This strategy aims to create a supportive environment conducive to recovery and reintegration into society.

 

[TSwizzle]

Priorities;

California retailers that refuse to have a gender-neutral section for children will be fined up to $500 under Gavin Newsom's new bill. The ultra-woke governor signed legislation in 2021 that would require some retail stores in the Golden State to have a gender-neutral section for children. Retailers would have to do this 'regardless of whether they have been traditionally marketed for either girls or for boys,' the bill said. The legislation, Assembly Bill No. 10584, will be enacted on January 1, 2024, and if retail department stores choose not to comply, they will have to dish out a civil penalty of $250 or $500.

Daily Mail

Shoplifters can steal $950 worth of good from these stores without consequence, mental patients taking a shit on the sidewalk are left alone but woe betide the store that does not conform to the new LBGTQWERTY+ religion!

Newsom is the dumbest of the dumb.

 

[Gospel]

Someone must have turned off IIDB's spam filter.

 

[Emily Lake]

Effective rehabilitation involves more than just incarceration or decriminalization of drugs; it also requires removing individuals from environments that perpetuate drug abuse. For instance, relocating a homeless drug addict to a rehab facility in a different state, away from familiar triggers, could significantly improve their recovery chances. This approach can be enhanced by offering employment opportunities suited to their abilities, with employers receiving government subsidies to partially cover wages. This strategy aims to create a supportive environment conducive to recovery and reintegration into society.

I'd support that.

Regarding my point to Poli, these are policy decisions that need to be enacted by politicians and legislators. Neither are things that individuals or even private organizations can reasonably do.

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

I don’t agree with bringing back the looney bin at all. But I very strongly endorse decriminalizing drugs to the greatest extent possible. The laws against them cause more harm than the drugs themselves, for the most part.

There are mentally ill people living on the street suffering because they lack the basic where-with-all to support themselves. With treatment they might be able to at least have a minimal standard of living that isn't entrapped in addiction, hunger, and pain.

 

[Gospel]

@TSwizzle . BTW - It's unlikely that shoplifters commit the act only once before reforming. They remain at risk of facing grand theft charges if they continue.

(e) If the value of the money, labor, real property, or personal property taken exceeds nine hundred fifty dollars ($950) over the course of distinct but related acts, the value of the money, labor, real property, or personal property taken may properly be aggregated to charge a count of grand theft, if the acts are motivated by one intention, one general impulse, and one plan.

Your no consequences claim seems a little off.

 

[Politesse]

Effective rehabilitation involves more than just incarceration or decriminalization of drugs; it also requires removing individuals from environments that perpetuate drug abuse. For instance, relocating a homeless drug addict to a rehab facility in a different state, away from familiar triggers, could significantly improve their recovery chances. This approach can be enhanced by offering employment opportunities suited to their abilities, with employers receiving government subsidies to partially cover wages. This strategy aims to create a supportive environment conducive to recovery and reintegration into society.

I'd support that.

Regarding my point to Poli, these are policy decisions that need to be enacted by politicians and legislators. Neither are things that individuals or even private organizations can reasonably do.

Why are you responding to an imaginary point? I'm not a fucking libertarian, government is an entirely necessary part of community life and I have never said otherwise.