Harris Trump debate

[Bronzeage]

But he has undying support from his tireless INCEL defenders.
I guess the question comes down to whether we have more INCELS or Swifties.

"Incel" has become nothing but a sexist insult against anybody a particular poster dislikes.
It's really a slur at this point.

Now that the term "Incel" has become politically incorrect, what does the community formerly self described as Incel, wish to be called?

Master debaters

That's good.
I have to admit, the first time I heard the term "incel", I thought it was a new kind of battery. The idea that there were men in the world who could not find a woman, or whatever, to have sex with them, sounded like the pilot for a bad sitcom. I later learned it was actually whining raised to the level of a Zen art form.

 

[Politesse]

But he has undying support from his tireless INCEL defenders.
I guess the question comes down to whether we have more INCELS or Swifties.

"Incel" has become nothing but a sexist insult against anybody a particular poster dislikes.
It's really a slur at this point.

Now that the term "Incel" has become politically incorrect, what does the community formerly self described as Incel, wish to be called?

"Men's Rights Movement", or MRM.

 

[Elixir]

And what makes her "worth listening to"? What makes her opinions so special? It's just cult of personality.

ROFL!! You can’t have her either.

So? Change the pronouns and you’ve described Trump.

Projection is some people’s most sincere form of flattery.

 

[Toni]

I was unaware that Cheerful Charlie was a political party.

I did not mean just him.

Or that he (I'm guessing) is obsessed with anyone.

Dems in general seem to have caught the Swift-fever.

I hope that Swift inspires more people to register and vote.

I do not think it's healthy for people to base their politics on what a popular singer tells them to think.

I don’t think that anyone should be unduly influenced by other people’s opinions either. But the fact is that if someone we like or admire says they are in favor of something ( or opposed to something) most of us will pay some attention —and may or may not alter our opinion. Here, Swift waited until after the debate to send out her endorsement. My assumption is that she watched the debate and found Trump too unhinged to not endorse Harris. But I don’t know her motivation. The big plus for me is that so many people registered to vote after her endorsement. I think that is very positive.

 

[Toni]

Which party would that be, that hates billionaires?

Democratic Party, at least its left wing. You know, the Bernie/AOC crowd.

That isn't hate. Emotion has nothing to do with it. The statement is in regards to what is the overall benefit of having billionaires for the national economy. We had similar discussions when it came to massive monopolies back in the late 19th century. At some point, there is a negative cost to allowing such an acquisition of wealth and power. When someone can become so wealthy it is nearly mathematically impossible to become poor, it probably isn't a bad idea to be a tad bit more aggressive on taking a portion of their income/revenue for ensuring a quality standard of living across the board. They'd still be fabulously wealthy, and things could be better as a baseline for everyone else.

Not only that but if only a handful of people possess most of the wealth, who will buy their products??

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

And what makes her "worth listening to"? What makes her opinions so special? It's just cult of personality.

So? Change the pronouns and you’ve described Trump.

Certainly politics is cult of personality territory. So the question becomes is the message of growth and compassion or power and repression, or somewhere in between.

 

[Bronzeage]

But he has undying support from his tireless INCEL defenders.
I guess the question comes down to whether we have more INCELS or Swifties.

"Incel" has become nothing but a sexist insult against anybody a particular poster dislikes.
It's really a slur at this point.

Now that the term "Incel" has become politically incorrect, what does the community formerly self described as Incel, wish to be called?

"Men's Rights Movement", or MRM.

Well, God knows men need more rights.

I think Incels are an offshoot from the MRM. The MRM started with men who thought divorce and custody proceedings were stacked against them. As this was pretty much by definition the problems of men who have engaged in sex with a woman, the Incels felt MRM really wasn't addressing their concerns.

 

[barbos]

For heavens sake, is there no-one better than either Trump or Harris? This is the best that can be done?

In politics?.... unlikely. USians like their presidents like these two.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

And what makes her "worth listening to"? What makes her opinions so special? It's just cult of personality.

So? Change the pronouns and you’ve described Trump.

Certainly politics is cult of personality territory. So the question becomes is the message of growth and compassion or power and repression, or somewhere in between.

The question is "How educated is the electorate?"

 

[Jimmy Higgins]

And what makes her "worth listening to"? What makes her opinions so special? It's just cult of personality.

So? Change the pronouns and you’ve described Trump.

Certainly politics is cult of personality territory. So the question becomes is the message of growth and compassion or power and repression, or somewhere in between.

The question is "How educated is the electorate?"

And this is the crux of why debates suck. People say they want politicians to be honest and straightforward... but really the people will vote for the aging actor who put the mentally ill onto the street but says nice things over the sitting President evangelical who inherited a shit economy who said times are rough.

 

[bilby]

And what makes her "worth listening to"? What makes her opinions so special? It's just cult of personality.

So? Change the pronouns and you’ve described Trump.

Yeah, it would be dreadful if US Presidential elections were decided based on personality, celebrity, and populist appeal, rather than on voters calmly and rationally considering each candidate's platform. I cannot even imagine what that would look like. /s

 

[Rhea]

I don't particularly look to celebrities for political endorsements, though.

Good. I find this obsession Dems have had with Taylor Swift quite weird, to borrow a term.

You haven’t shown that it is an “obsession,” at all.

But really, this is not hard to figure out, and I’m surprised that it eludes you. It’s quite straightforward and simple. Let me spell it out:

Campaigning and winning includes reaching an audience’s eyeballs with your message and getting them to act on it.

Just as the GOP is “obsessed,” to use your use of the term, with megadonors like Sheldon and now Miriam Adelson to get money to buy ads in places that people will actually pay attention to them, the Dems are delighted by an “ad buy” that is both free and actually watched without resentment by many millions.

I think most of her fanbase is too young to vote.

I’m surprised you would write this after right here in this thread it was shown to you that most of her fans are NOT, in fact, too young to vote. Did you find it hard to understand? Or that indeed you could have looked up yourself instead of assuming something that is not true at all.

What they meant by that was that most of her fans are over 18. Unspoken but implied is that most of those are likely not previous voters. This makes them “new voters” if the attention of their eyeballs can be gained to notice the election, and the motion of their thumbs can be triggered to register for the election, and the movement of their feet can be prompted to fill in that bubble.

She is a free super-bowl ad. She’s five of them.

Her singing ability has absolutely NOTHING to do with why democratic party strategists stan her. This might be a novel view for you, but sometimes women are worth more for their personality than for their looks or one portion of their skill set.

As for whether she is a deft business-person (the other part of her skill set) and whether your named billionaires are not, obviously the key difference is that her particular business is getting people’s attention and she is very very good at it, while theirs is not. People like to pay atention to what she is selling. Boohoo for you that you don’t like her product and that you allow this to cloud your ability to understand her value to others in the context of her field and how that is desired by people in adjacent fields of attention-getting like politics. Meanwhile no mention of how “obsessed” the GOP is with Miriam Adelson, despite her product being shit, right?


I’m surprised you weren’t able to gleen all of this from the context of the thread. It all makes perfect sense in a pragmatic scope, if you can put down your disdain for a certain type of music and recognize that it was never about that.

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

And what makes her "worth listening to"? What makes her opinions so special? It's just cult of personality.

So? Change the pronouns and you’ve described Trump.

Huffington Post describes Orange Dotard best:

"Editor’s note: Donald Trump regularly incites political violence and is a serial liar, rampant xenophobe, racist, misogynist and birther who has repeatedly pledged to ban all Muslims — 1.6 billion members of an entire religion — from entering the U.S."

 

[Bronzeage]

I also love how Trump lied through his teeth about trying to “save” Obamacare, and then Harris brutally fact-checked him with the vote he instigated in Congress to wipe it out and how John McCain gave repeal the thumbs down, which she imitated. Guess The Dumpster shouldn’t have insulted McCain during the 2016 campaign! Then later he insisted, as he did in 2016, then he would replace Obamacare with “something better.” When pressed for details last night on his replacement plan, he admitted he didn’t have a plan, but the “concept” of a plan. I’m actually surprised, however, that this blithering moron even knows the meaning of the word “concept.”

My favorite Trump quote from that time is "No one knew healthcare was so complicated."

 

[ZiprHead]

In a completely self unaware moment by JD Vance, he said this:

“We admire Taylor Swift’s music, but I don’t think most Americans, whether they like her music, are fans of hers or not, are going to be influenced by a billionaire celebrity who I think is fundamentally disconnected from the interests and the problems of most Americans,”

 

[T.G.G. Moogly]

In a completely self unaware moment by JD Vance, he said this:

“We admire Taylor Swift’s music, but I don’t think most Americans, whether they like her music, are fans of hers or not, are going to be influenced by a billionaire celebrity who I think is fundamentally disconnected from the interests and the problems of most Americans,”

Amazing, but not surprising. Trump worship is a kind of blind, religious fundamentalism. Maybe his zealots should declare him a god, get in on the religious savings.

 

[starwater]

Germany just smacked the orange one good!

Trump receives brutal mockery from the German government over false debate claim

Germany’s Foreign Ministry took the time to publicly correct one of Trump’s false claim at the debate, while also mocking him over his racist lie about Haitian immigrants eating pets.

www.msnbc.com

Germany did not (as orangey claimed in the debate) slow down on green energy.

Just like Kamala said, the world leaders laugh at him.

 

[bilby]

In a completely self unaware moment by JD Vance, he said this:

“We admire Taylor Swift’s music, but I don’t think most Americans, whether they like her music, are fans of hers or not, are going to be influenced by a billionaire celebrity who I think is fundamentally disconnected from the interests and the problems of most Americans,”

Harris surely has to stand up now and say "We admire The Apprentice, but I don't think most Americans, whether they like the show, are fans of it or not, are going to be influenced by a billionaire celebrity who I think is fundamentally disconnected from the interests and the problems of most Americans”

 

[robnisch]

NO third debate!!
Well, even lower life forms will avoid pain.

 

[Ford]

In a completely self unaware moment by JD Vance, he said this:

“We admire Taylor Swift’s music, but I don’t think most Americans, whether they like her music, are fans of hers or not, are going to be influenced by a billionaire celebrity who I think is fundamentally disconnected from the interests and the problems of most Americans,”

What's more, why is JD Guyliner even in his current position?

The support of a billionaire. JD is as "disconnected from the interests and the problems of most Americans" as any Senator. His "hillbilly" background is questionable at best, and he is a tool of the elites. He got to where he is because of money, and if his recent performance is any indication, it has nothing to do with his innate political skills or charisma.

Swift was born to well-off parents, and they moved to Nashville to support her career, but unlike Vance - who went to Yale - she went to a much more competitive "school." The Nashville music scene. She earned a major label development deal as a teenager, and when that deal didn't work out she went back to writing songs and playing showcases around Music City. Talk to any aspiring country artists in Nashville if you want to know how tough that is. It was at one of these shows (which is basically an "audition" for record execs who may or may not wander in) that she impressed Scott Borchetta, who signed her as the first artist on his fledgling Big Machine Records. It wasn't because her parents had money or because she had connections. It was because of her talent. I know this because I've talked to Borchetta about what attracts him to the artists that he signs. It isn't "is her daddy well-off" or "what university did she attend."

He felt (rightly) that she was a talented songwriter and performer. But that's not always enough. I know people who've worked at Big Machine for years, and met many of the very talented acts that they signed. There's a long list of artists that were on Big Machine (and their subsidiary "imprint" labels) that never took off. Scott was big on Steel Magnolia, Kate & Kacey, Tucker Beathard, Emerson Drive, and a whole bunch of others I met that you've never heard of. It's not that they weren't good, but success in the music business is very hard. Swift has a couple of other things going for her. One, she is very smart. Talk to her for 5 minutes and it is obvious that she's a lot more than some kid who wrote some songs about a guy she liked in school. The other thing is that she's basically a marketing genius. There is no "billionaire behind the curtain" pulling the strings to make a talentless hack famous. She is very much in charge of her own image and career.

She isn't exactly a "dirt poor hillbilly who made it big." That'd be Dolly Parton. But Taylor is successful because of her talent and savvy, not because - like Vance - she had a venture capitalist backing her, or like Trump who inherited his daddy's real estate empire (and virulent racism). She understands the "American Dream" more than Spray Tan Man and Couch Boy ever could. I suspect she chose this time to endorse Harris precisely because she knew it would make the most impact.